cam011235 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I have seen a beautiful 74 ebony standard for sale from a very reputable dealer here in australia however it has been refinished and had some apparently good mods done to it including being fitted with original 69 pots and original 50s bridge light tailpiece and stud..it has also been refretted... This is at a very good price from a very reputable who is claiming it is very playable guitar..however i am uncertain on the refin and mods..how this would affect the value and the desirability of the guitar? I would appreciate any feedback from some one with knowledge and experience on such issues cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Firstly, total originality is of great concern mostly to collectors. Whilst it is, perhaps, a desirable feature it should hardly be a deal-breaker IMO. The value and price of refinished and modified instruments varies enormously depending on several aspects - for instance; How rare/desirable is the instrument on offer? How well has it been re-fin'd (and even by whom)? How has it been modified? Are these changes reversible? Are the original parts still available? And so on. The re-fret shouldn't be an issue. Any instrument played regularly over a 30-40 year period would probably have been re-fretted at some point. Fairly desirable, but fairly common, instruments - a refinished pre-CBS Strat, for example - would tend to fetch between 1/2 and 1/3 of the price of an unmolested, all-original instrument in the U.K. (this is from personal experience, btw). However, in the case of the '70s Les Paul you mention the changes noted would probably lower it's value by a much lesser percentage. There are still quite a lot of original ones about but they are not (yet?) very collectible. This means the value of an all-original example isn't that high (in relative terms) to begin with and the collectors aren't snapping them up in the same way as they went after the '58 - '60 'bursts, and it is the collectors who are responsible for the vast increase in the perceived value of certain models. To enlarge upon this last point; whereas an all-original '59 'burst might fetch between $200,000 and $300,000 it's still possible to pick up an all-original '59 LP Custom for under $40,000. Why should this be the case? Because collectors want 'bursts more than they want Customs. If the Custom you have found is a good player at a good price then there's no reason not to snap it up. It will probably not lose any more value and, as it's a well liked model of guitar, there will always be a market for it if you choose to sell at some future time. Just my opinion, of course. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFrills Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 As mentioned above, to a collector, it's blasphemy. To someone who intends to play the guitar it's definitely not a deal breaker. From the way I see it, if the guitar is unplayable or has some nasty trait to it which makes it pointless to play then it's worth nothing to me, all original parts or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angellus Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Pippy hit the nail on the head. If you are looking for a guitar and it plays well to your needs and you like it then buy it. If you are looking to buy it as a future investment then no dont buy it. I must say though IMO unless a les paul guitar is a very early 59' approx les paul then I wouldn't buy as future investment at all or consider it. Norlin (70's) guitars are 50/50 in peoples eyes for desirability but to me if it plays well an has what im looking for then its a desirable guitar to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 Thanx for your advice..yeah it seems to be advertised around its play ability which does sound very nice and the seller is a very reputable dealer who would not blow their cred over a guitar like this they deal with many rare and vintage guitars..so i believe them that is has been well modded and refinished..though i am not sure i like this idea as much.. one thing i have noticed that for an original 74 standard it is only selling for $2200 suggesting that these changes have affected its values ..i am seeing customs at this age in original condition going for $5-7000 bearing in mind AUS dollar is about the same as greenback presently.. it does look very nice as a playable guitar but i wonder whether if i may be better going for a traditional at this price..which it really resembles but i know i am getting guaranteed quality with this and not so many risks there r some beautiful black beauties from early seventies in great condition on sale here but are way out of my price range unfortunately..but so desirable really lovely guitars.. thanx for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I pretty much agree with what everyone says so far just to reinforce. I notice though that there you are referring to both customs and standards-they might both have different values. I understand that in Australia, Gibsons are worth more than in the US because there aren't as many to go around and it cost more to get them there. But if it makes a difference, 70's Gibsons in the US are not yet quite worth more than new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Buy it, if you love it! As mentioned, unless you are a real collector, and it's an investment, to be locked away, or in some glass display case, the "refinish" thing, is of no real consequence. Especially, if it was done well. Again...IMHO. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 I pretty much agree with what everyone says so far just to reinforce. I notice though that there you are referring to both customs and standards-they might both have different values. I understand that in Australia, Gibsons are worth more than in the US because there aren't as many to go around and it cost more to get them there. But if it makes a difference, 70's Gibsons in the US are not yet quite worth more than new ones. yes quite true they are very different with vintage standards and customs in terms of value.. it was just a reference point as i would have thought a 74 standard would have got a bit more...maybe the mods refin actually lowered the price from a clean original model..just trying to understand the market absolutely true the price of vintage and custom guitars in australia is getting very high they are much rarer out here but very highly desired i often look at american sites and ebay and am shocked at what you can get for under 3000..though there are risks to this there seems to be some buys that are on the level and by our standards a bargain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGGONE Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 CamO, I have an early 70's ebony Les Paul Custom and it's a great guitar. If you can get this guitar for a decent price due to the mods to it, I would jump on it. You might not get another chance at it. If it's any help to you, I saw a refinished custom in Florida for $2500.00 US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 CamO, I have an early 70's ebony Les Paul Custom and it's a great guitar. If you can get this guitar for a decent price due to the mods to it, I would jump on it. You might not get another chance at it. If it's any help to you, I saw a refinished custom in Florida for $2500.00 US. It is very tempting the dealer has a good rep so i feel that the mods would be well done it sounds like it has been really well set up to play and most guitars of this vintage start to push outside my price range at present ..i really appreciate the help i got here as i have been eyeing something in the sub 3000 range probably very attracted to a traditional.. however.i have seen some awesome vintage guitars in the states for this price assuming they are genuine.. i was quite uncertain what the go was with refinished guitars i like the idea that the nitrocellulose has that aging and the idea that someone has redone this doesnt appeal to me ..but it also an early 70s guitar that has probably been well done up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 oh got a photobucket account sorted heres a pic of the guitar notice it has grover tuners which i see as a good thing..it also looks a lot like a traditional ebony which i really like maybe the pickguard has a lighter tone..there some close ups i couldnt copy but it looks like it has been refretted and the neck totally refinned..i am not so sure about this in some ways the frets are good but it looks so new and i am not aure how this will affect the nitrocellulose finish..part of me is going towards buying a new traditional so i now what i got and can wear it in my own way..to me they are very good guitars but at 2200 this caught my attention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFrills Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Regardless of it's mods I think it s a very nice guitar and if that's a good price in your country then go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Regardless of it's mods I think it s a very nice guitar and if that's a good price in your country then go for it. it is very tempting i am caught between this and a traditional ..there are others but this is more my budget..it seems like a good playable guitar..but i really like traditionals at their price and just the knowledge i know what i am getting..as much as i love vintage guitars i am always a little cautious ..they can be hit or miss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angellus Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 its a good looker! after seeing the pic i would buy it IMO. anyone can go buy a traditional but you will have a 70's traditional with personal mods if it plays great and the finish is as good as it looks i'd be sold the traditionals are great i have one and looking to buy another but this has its own character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I agree that the Standard looks like a good deal. If it really is a '74 then it would be from Kalamazoo to boot! Can you try it before you buy it? P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 its a good looker! after seeing the pic i would buy it IMO. anyone can go buy a traditional but you will have a 70's traditional with personal mods if it plays great and the finish is as good as it looks i'd be sold the traditionals are great i have one and looking to buy another but this has its own character it is very tempting after reading these responses from experienced les paul people i am leaning more towards this it really caught my eye it sounds well modded is it ok to put the link in here to dealer selling it? i am new and not sure of the rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 I agree that the Standard looks like a good deal. If it really is a '74 then it would be from Kalamazoo to boot! Can you try it before you buy it? P. it would be difficult as i am in a city a few hundred kilometers away but they deal in high end rare vintage guitars they wouldnt blow their cred i dont think by lying on a deal like this is it ok to put a link in here to the advertised site ? i am new not sure on the rules here..i value peoples opinions here the link may shed a little more light on it as it really caught my eye,,they are really talking this guitar up i would value every ones opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 heres the link to the guitar if this is against forum rules i will take it down but it does give better idea of what its about ..they are really talking it up http://www.jacksonsrareguitars.com/gibson-les-paul-standard-refinished-black-1974.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 48 hour return policy, so it might be worth a go. Decal humbuckers do sound amazing. It does seem like whoever restored this guitar, they certainly knew what they were doing. I think it is worth asking what kind of finish was used, whether nitro or poly. Also, knowing the weight might give an idea of how it will sound if you are familiar with the sounds of Les Pauls. A heavier guitar will tend to sound darker than a lighter one. I would not want to say that guitar is worth more in dollars than a Traditional, but there are some good reasons to prefer this one if you seem to like it. Especially if you like black. But I would not jump on it as a compromise if a traditional is what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 48 hour return policy, so it might be worth a go. Decal humbuckers do sound amazing. It does seem like whoever restored this guitar, they certainly knew what they were doing. I think it is worth asking what kind of finish was used, whether nitro or poly. Also, knowing the weight might give an idea of how it will sound if you are familiar with the sounds of Les Pauls. A heavier guitar will tend to sound darker than a lighter one. I would not want to say that guitar is worth more in dollars than a Traditional, but there are some good reasons to prefer this one if you seem to like it. Especially if you like black. But I would not jump on it as a compromise if a traditional is what you want. it is tempting it is ticking alot of boxes and the price seems good which sort of makes me wonder if there are issues..i wonder about the finish i am concerned that the nitrocellulose has been compromised...the appealing thing about a traditional is i know exactly what i am getting i already love them and i can play the guitar in get the finish reacting to my playing and the areas on the neck i prefer..there are elements that appeal with this but also concern me particularly unknown variables..even the price if it is as good as they say why doesnt it cost more they are selling many guitars over 10 000 this one of their cheaper ones yet they are really talking it up..i have actually been thinking of putting sh-4 and sh-2 pups in as i like their tone as well..anyway thanks for your input much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Decal humbuckers do sound amazing. I agree with stein. The Pat No p-ups are exactly the same as the later style of PAFs, and T-tops are well thought of in their own right. Accounts vary but there were precious few Standards produced - if any, according to some sources - before 1975 so if it is a genuine Standard it's a pretty rare thing. The worst-case scenario is that it's a routed-out Deluxe but for the money they are asking it's still good value. A reputable dealer is unlikely to ruin their reputation so it's certainly worth a punt considering the returns policy. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 I agree with stein. The Pat No p-ups are exactly the same as the later style of PAFs, and T-tops are well thought of in their own right. Accounts vary but there were precious few Standards produced - if any, according to some sources - before 1975 so if it is a genuine Standard it's a pretty rare thing. The worst-case scenario is that it's a routed-out Deluxe but for the money they are asking it's still good value. A reputable dealer is unlikely to ruin their reputation so it's certainly worth a punt considering the returns policy. P. yeah the input from the members has made me more interested in this..indeed the dealer would not want to tarnish their rep over something like that they are the largest dealers in the country of rare vintage guitars many high end instruments ..i just need the more expert advice to confirm what i thought looked very good guitar at very good price i can do the usual verification checks but every one here is confirming what i thought about it..a 74 is very desirable those pups sound good to it is very tempting..that is interesting that very few standards were made in this time frame i will need to research this further ..i had a quick look at some 74 standard forums and there is some debate about 74 standards some suggesting rerouted deluxes..thanx for your input it is very valuable and appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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