Epiphone LP wiring

[JLHooker]

I have an Epiphone Les Paul.I have replaced the pick ups with a Gibson '57 classic and classic plus.I also installed paper in oil .22 caps.Will changing the pots and rewiring improve the tone ?It sounds good a it is but not as good as my gibson LP.

[RaSTuS]

Probably not, a lot of people change the 3-way switch and input jack for Switchcraft branded replacements, they are far more reliable than the Epi originals.

 

Many also change the pots to CTS brand, mainly for the same reliability reasons, but also because they offer smoother control.

[JamGuy]

I also installed paper in oil .22 caps.

 

It may provide you with a change in tone from what I've read. I just installed some .022 caps in the LP project I just finished and like them just fine... great sweep of tone and volume. It can't hurt...

[Epi Rocks]

Did the same on all my Epi's. Made a significant change to the quality of the tone on all three.

They however, still sound different from each other but were much improved.

Gibson pickups, switchcraft selector switch, CTS linear pots and PIO caps will make the world of difference.

It may still sound a little different from your Gibson but, that's probably a good thing, as long

as the tones are good.

 

Cheers

Paul

[RaSTuS]

Did the same on all my Epi's. Made a significant change to the quality of the tone on all three.

They however, still sound different from each other but were much improved.

Gibson pickups, switchcraft selector switch, CTS linear pots and PIO caps will make the world of difference.

It may still sound a little different from your Gibson but, that's probably a good thing, as long

as the tones are good.

The biggest change would have been the pickup upgrade though, not the pots.

[Supersonic]

The biggest change would have been the pickup upgrade though, not the pots.

 

Exactly. People who think changing pots makes their guitar sound better are hearing things that aren't really there. The reason to upgrade them is for functionality and reliability, not tone. I'm sure people will disagree with me, but I really don't care because they are wrong.

[damian]

I spilled olive oil by accident on my wife's paper, so she capped me 22 times.......Yes, HER tone changed...... :unsure: .......

[claydots]

Just a suggestion... take the .022 caps out and try Sprague .047 Orange Drops for the treble bleed. Easy to try, not expensive and easily reversible.

 

I would change the pots to CTS right away and remove that nightmare that Epiphone calls a wiring harness. I always start from scratch..

 

Think of it as putting a big engine in the car but you have a weak transmission and rear-end. You can have all the power in the world but if you can't transfer it to the ground in the most effective way, you have defeated the purpose of an expensive upgrade.

[JLHooker]

Just a suggestion... take the .022 caps out and try Sprague .047 Orange Drops for the treble bleed. Easy to try, not expensive and easily reversible.

 

I would change the pots to CTS right away and remove that nightmare that Epiphone calls a wiring harness. I always start from scratch..

 

Think of it as putting a big engine in the car but you have a weak transmission and rear-end. You can have all the power in the world but if you can't transfer it to the ground in the most effective way, you have defeated the purpose of an expensive upgrade.

I don't think your pic of the Chinese Epi wiring is quite right.it looks like some of the pots and switches are loose in the cavity.Mine looks a rat nest but not as bad as yours.

Thanks for the reply

[bigneil]

One of the things that will make sleight tonal differences are the particular methods of wiring used...for example 50's or modern style, dependent or independent volume controls plus any mods you make such as a high pass filter.

[Blueman335]

I have an Epiphone Les Paul.I have replaced the pick ups with a Gibson '57 classic and classic plus.I also installed paper in oil .22 caps.Will changing the pots and rewiring improve the tone ?It sounds good a it is but not as good as my gibson LP.

 

I have lots of Epi's, and keep the stock wiring and pots in them (only change I make is to put 250K's on the bridge PU's for more warmth). All pots and wiring do is pass a current thru them, you only need to change them out if they're crackling and shorting. You probably won't hear a difference in tone.

 

The biggest thing you can do to improve tone quality is upgrade the PU's, does more than everything else combined. Keep in mind all wood is unique (grain, density, mineral content, wood content, etc) and no two have exactly the same tonal properties, even if cut from the same tree. You can put the same PU's in five of the same model of guitar, and usually all five will sound different. That's the nature of wood. Some of us on the Duncan forum aren't totally enamoured with Gibson '57 Classics; the way they're wound, the A2 magents in them can make dark and muddy in the neck, and give them a rounded high-end, no matter how much treble you add at the amp. Solution: change magnets! (each magnet is made of different metals, which alters its magnetic field, and it therefore 'reads' string vibrations differently, changing the PU's tone). An alnico 5 in the neck '57 clears it up: gives treble, clarity, and definition. In the bridge '57, an UO alinco 5 will give a little more treble for cut and bite, while keeping the rich vintage dynamics and reponse of an A2. You can get magents for several dollars each at Addition FX on eBay. There's an instrucitional video on mag swapping on project guitar.com. Changing magnets takes 10-15 minutes, and most of that time is loosening and retightening the strings. It's usually best to practice on a cheap Asian PU first. You can save a lot of money by mag swapping, instead of buying and selling PU's, and hoping they'll work well with your wood.

[Lefty Bill]

I think you were referring to changing the Tone pot value to 250k ohm, and not the Volume pot, correct?

 

Reducing the value of the Vol pot will reduce the maximum output level, by placing the output/A+ (hot) lead closer to ground. Basically, a 500k ohm pot at max is moving the A+ lead twice as far from ground, allowing more output if the pickups produce that much.

 

Thanks,

Bill

 

 

I have lots of Epi's, and keep the stock wiring and pots in them (only change I make is to put 250K's on the bridge PU's for more warmth). All pots and wiring do is pass a current thru them, you only need to change them out if they're crackling and shorting. You probably won't hear a difference in tone.

Snip

[Lefty Bill]

Changing the value of the tone pot will affect/shift the peak response frequency, which may be favorable for what you're wanting to accomplish. This is the function of variable-tone switches, to give the player selectable/repeatable steps of different capacitance and resistances.

I don't have any specific suggestions for which pot values will result in what kinds of changes will occur.. just try a few different values, and be sure to let us know the results.

 

Common pot values which can be considered are 1M, 500k (probably the original value), 300k and 250k ohms.. there are other value available, but these are commonly available. Resistors can be paralleled/tacked on to pot terminals to achieve odd values. Note: paralleled resistors lower/decrease the value of the lower value.

 

BTW, pot values generally aren't spot on, compared with the marked value. I recommended checking new parts in another message, which is the only way to know what the actual value really is before installing it.

I measured a new 500k pot recently, and the actual value was only 440k ohm (Fluke meter, not harbor freight).

 

As Blueman suggests, substituting magnets isn't extremely difficult. The pickup's individual poles may be adjustable, and doing so can enhance certain tones.

 

Another major factor would be strings.

 

Regards,

Bill

 

 

I have an Epiphone Les Paul.I have replaced the pick ups with a Gibson '57 classic and classic plus.I also installed paper in oil .22 caps.Will changing the pots and rewiring improve the tone ?It sounds good a it is but not as good as my gibson LP.

[Blueman335]

I think you were referring to changing the Tone pot value to 250k ohm, and not the Volume pot, correct?

 

Reducing the value of the Vol pot will reduce the maximum output level, by placing the output/A+ (hot) lead closer to ground. Basically, a 500k ohm pot at max is moving the A+ lead twice as far from ground, allowing more output if the pickups produce that much.

 

Almost all of my guitars have a 250K volume and tone on the bridge PU's, and all my PU's are upgraded (Duncan, DMz, Gibson, Rio Grande, Fralin, Lollar, Carvin, Schaller, etc). I like warm bridges. The only volume 'loss' with my 250K's is losing the excess high-end, which is harsh to my ears. I adjust the volume levels between neck and bridge PU's by adjusting PU and pole piece heights. I'd much rather have a bridge PU with a balanced EQ that hits like a hammer, than be top-heavy and sound like a mosquito.

[Lefty Bill]

I'm glad you responded with the additional details, Blue.

 

My reason for mentioning the 250k replacement for the 500k Vol pot was because I had done that recently with a 3-single pickup guitar, and was surprised at how low the output dropped. Yeah, not the same as a couple of humbuckers, an apples-oranges comparison, I guess.

 

When I installed another 500k Vol pot, the output jumped back up to where it was originally (but the original pot was scratchy sounding, and DeoxIt wasn't effective, although it usually is).

 

Thanks,

Bill

 

 

Almost all of my guitars have a 250K volume and tone on the bridge PU's, and all my PU's are upgraded (Duncan, DMz, Gibson, Rio Grande, Fralin, Lollar, Carvin, Schaller, etc). I like warm bridges. The only volume 'loss' with my 250K's is losing the excess high-end, which is harsh to my ears. I adjust the volume levels between neck and bridge PU's by adjusting PU and pole piece heights. I'd much rather have a bridge PU with a balanced EQ that hits like a hammer, than be top-heavy and sound like a mosquito.

[JLHooker]

I'm glad you responded with the additional details, Blue.

 

My reason for mentioning the 250k replacement for the 500k Vol pot was because I had done that recently with a 3-single pickup guitar, and was surprised at how low the output dropped. Yeah, not the same as a couple of humbuckers, an apples-oranges comparison, I guess.

 

When I installed another 500k Vol pot, the output jumped back up to where it was originally (but the original pot was scratchy sounding, and DeoxIt wasn't effective, although it usually is).

 

Thanks,

Bill

Thanks for all this information.My original question was "If I upgrade the wiring, pots, switch and jack,will it affect or improve the tone on my Epi Lp.After deciphering these responses, I don't think it will so I'll probaly leave well enough alone.

Thanks,

JLHooker

[Lefty Bill]

Just to pick a nit.. your question included the term "changing", so I replied to changing the values of the parts, and didn't know the question was regarding replacing the existing parts with parts of the same values.

 

But anyway, you came to a good conclusion.. it's likely better to just use the parts as they are without replacing them. Until the time comes when you start experiencing problems, which may not be any time soon, existing parts in good working condition might as well be appreciated.

 

Bill

 

 

Thanks for all this information.My original question was "If I upgrade the wiring, pots, switch and jack,will it affect or improve the tone on my Epi Lp.After deciphering these responses, I don't think it will so I'll probaly leave well enough alone.

Thanks,

JLHooker