dubstar Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I am posting the following for someone from another board who registered but is having difficulty posting a new thread (he may just have missed the new thread button, or it may be another issue) hopefully, he will be able to respond to this thread and then from that point forward, start his own threads... G'Day there mate... saw the post you did in my 65 Casino thread ... still can't actually believe it's here on laying on my couch... anyway... I saw your name in the Gibson/epi forum when I signed up today.... and as I am having trouble working out how to post a thread I thought I'd PM you here... I filled in all the details and can log in... but the confirmation email thingy never came to my email address ... I have requested it now again 4 or 5 times and nothing comes through on my email .... Do you need to have that confirmation email replied to before you can post a new thread at the Gibson/epi forum ? The reason I joined the Gibson/epi forum is that I did a search of their posts and could find what I was looking for. I would like to know if anyone has an actual 1960s Casino layout schematic for the wiring, so I can confirm what the pot sizes are for the Tone/Volume. Before I get the Casino opened up by my guitar man, I'd like to know what sizes/types the pots are. When I look at the new reissue Casino they say it has: Volume: 300k Linear Tone: 500k Audio 300k linear seems really strange to me ... but I am a Fender guy and maybe that is what they had back in the 60s... anyway .. any advice you can give about how one actually makes a posting to the Gibson/epi forum will be appreciated. The Casino is basically as the advert photos had shown. A couple of marks on the back of the neck, but nothing of any consequence .... the neck width is great, just like a Fender. Even though there is checking in the nitro, there is still a great sheen on the paint finish as you can see in the pics below. The repair to the jack input does not look as bad (ie the black washer) in real life than it does in the photos. All the nickel parts have that great tarnish look ... I am quite happy with the nickel parts.. aparantly in 65 the change occured to chrome parts and it was a toss up as to what you got when you ordered a Casino in 1965. Couple of marks on the end of the headstock where it may have rested against something... again so minor to not really worth mentioning. Cowboy chord frets are lower than the others, but not by much ... may even get away with a fret dress ... but if my luthier recommends a full refret I have no issues (also I trust him implicitly) The action is superb. Low, clean, true, consistent. No problems with the neck at all as far as I can see/play. The guard is a strange one.... it has yellowed in blotchy areas (hard to photograph) and there is virtually no scratch marks on the guard. It has also warped slighly... need to bend the lower attachment thingy to lower it. So on one hand It looks so "new" I wondered whether it wasn't original, but the store said it was original and the yellow blotchiness and warping tend to push me to original or at least quite old. Maybe the original owner didn't play with it on? The guitar is quite heavy considering and I can tell that is all the original Stereo Varitone electronics in there. I intend to have the stereo Varitone electronics removed and a modern mono version varitone installed, as I want this guitar to be a functioning recording guitar and having to push in or out the guitar lead to select each pickup is just BS. You need a stereo lead which splits into two mono leads, going to two separate amps or channels in an amp. Currently I cannot get the two combined PUP set upbecause of this Stereo Varitone set up. Those Epiphone/Gibson guys back in the late 50s who thought every guitarist would carry (and could afford) two separate amplifiers to a gig had rocks in their heads. Here is the stereo varitone circuit. The issue is that even with the variton in position 1, when it is meant to be "off" there is still parts of it in the circuit affecting the tone. The Varitone has become known as a "tone sucker". the mono varitone circuit ... much more like say what Fender would have designed if they did a varitone The varitone switch had this initially back in 1959 ... lots of caps and resistors hanging off it... this is a stereo version...half those components work on the bridge pup the other half on the neck pup... almost impossible to service without ******* it all up. Then in the early 60s sprague developed a "chip" not really a chip as we now understand , but just a package that had all the resistors and caps in together .... totally unserviceable. here's the drawing of the sprague "chip" This is the entire harness for a stereo varitone circuit. The items circles in red will be removed and replaced with what i show below... the silver thing to the right is two coils in a aluminium housing ... those coils and housing is what adds the weight to the guitar A lot of Gibson guys have been sourcing vintage 345s and removing the original varitone part of the circuit (putting it safely away in the case) and fitting this BIG Ds varitone. http://www.bigdguitars.com/varitone.html So the circuit will look like this. Note how when in postion one (by pass) the varitone is totally out of the circuit. I can have the original stereo varitone removed with a couple .. maybe 4 or 5 ... solder points ..and have it safely in the case and replace it with one of the BIG Ds varitone units. Then the Casino will be fully functioning mono output guitar... The inlays on the neck have almost a yellow look about them... almost a golden hue I had never played a Casino before and it is certainly a strange feeling after being a Fender person for a long time. Even though the scale length is similar to a Jaguar, it feels shorter than a Jaguar. I suspect that is because the Jag has the off set and so the neck is further to the left relative to where the bridge is located, relative to your body... if that makes sense. I now understand the poses that Lennon did when he played his. It's far more comfortable to play than say my ES137.... the real thinline-ness of the Casino is great Tuned it up and plugged it in. Turned the amp on and played the intro to Helter Skelter ... ******* awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I had read quite a few times that the Casino is a "Rhythm guitarists" guitar. and I do understand that comment. I also understand why Lennon took to this after having his Ricky 325. The sound can be quite traditional Rhythm guitar like" ... well Beatlesque obviously. But as I said having to push the mono plug in or out to get the two different PUPs was a pain in the arse ... The Varitone is impressive, with some damn good sounds as well... I suspect it will be better with the "new" varitone unit I intend to have installed. Acoustically it is very loud ... very loud ... which surprised me... so it's great playing on the couch acoustically. Took some photos just before the light failed this evening. It was overcast and obviously not bright . The interesting thing is in bright light the lower end looks like the paint has a section of black, but it doesn't. Just dark brown, similar to the mid 50s Fender 2 tone bursts. In overcast lighting conditions the "black" colour suddenly lightens up. The first three photos are from the dealer shots, the others I took. So I finally get my 50th birthday guitar ... it cost close to $2k less than the first one I tried to get (considering the total cost of guitar/shipping/paypal fees etc) ... yeah !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 note that this is an actual casino from 1965...not a current 1965 model (probably obvious, but you never know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPDEN Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Beautiful!!! And Happy 50th to the recipient of that awesome '65 Casino! It's threads like tis that re-affirm why I love 60's Epiphones ( and their descendant reissues). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 OK, he can't respond to this thread and is not receiving the confirmation email(s): is there a mod available who can step in and take a look at this? if no one is around, I'll send a few PMs in the morning... thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyg Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Lovely guitar and congrats on getting it. It's the first Casino I've ever seen (ever heard of) with a varitone. I didn't even know it was an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny_2_owls Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Wow that is one beautiful guitar! The finish looks perfect! I saw this over at osg.com and wondered if it would show up over here...if anyone can help they'll be found here! Happy 50th too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Patton Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Gorgeous guitar! The color and patina are fantastic. It's just oozing character. I'm also pretty impressed by that furball of capacitors and resistors on the switch! Pretty impressive work by the Epi techs. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPDEN Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 OK, he can't respond to this thread and is not receiving the confirmation email(s): is there a mod available who can step in and take a look at this? if no one is around, I'll send a few PMs in the morning... thanks Send Admin an e-mail, they can help resolve that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkuss Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a guitar!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocknRollFun Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Just wanted to mention that when I signed up, I could never get the confirmation email. I think I went into my profile and requested to change my email and the response I got let me post after following the link. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPDEN Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Just wanted to mention that when I signed up, I could never get the confirmation email. I think I went into my profile and requested to change my email and the response I got let me post after following the link. Hope that helps. Just don't make a typo with your e-mail as I once did or you'll need admin to take your profile out of the validation mode... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sookwinder Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 G'Day there guys ... I am the proud owner of this beautiful 65 Casino and this is my first posting here at this forum. Thanks to the admin staff who sorted out the "authorisation issues" .. much appreciated. Also thanks to all the members here... over the past month or two while I have been thinking/looking/finally deciding to get the vintage Casino, I have read lots of great info at this forum which helped me immensely. I am a Fender guy, and have always been thankful of the "tummy cut" on strats , jags and Jazzmasters, so when ever I have played my LP Std or ricky360 or ES137 it has felt not as natural or easy. But I have to say that the Casino is just delightful to play .. again it maybe the shorter neck (not scale length, but the relative location of the neck to the body) what ever the reason it doesn't matter. Plus the wider (standard fender size) nut width is just perfect... it is a keeper for sure. Also very very impressed with the varitone and it's ability to change the timbre, tonal qualities, thickness of the sound. I am still running the origianl stereo varitone which is a PITA but will fit the mono BigD varitone in the coming week or two. Obviously back in the day many who used the varitone thought it sucked tone, and the system may well have, but done correctly the varitone opens up totally new pallets of sound. Great to finally be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Welcome to the forums SW, there's a great bunch around here, I hope you like the place. That's one sweet geet, absolutely gorgeous, congrats and enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfine Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 That guitar should have a stereo Y-cord to plug into the stereo jack. It may well be long-gone by now, but you could get a cord with a stereo plug on the guitar end, and use a regular mono plug on the other--wire up the two hot wires together, and the two grounds together, and you can use the guitar in mono. I did that on a '67 Gibson ES-345 that I had in the early '70's. Worked fine, and the guitar's electronics stayed original. Stereo-wired Casinos are really rare--yours is the only one I've ever heard of, although any two-pickup Gibson or Epiphone from that era could be special-ordered with the stereo/Varitone setup, but very few were. I've seen a picture of a Byrdland with the Varitone and stereo output, and at least one Super 400-CES was built that way, but, as the Stereo/Varitone option was never publicized, it wasn't used much. The only Gibsons that came standard with it were the ES-345 and the ES-355-SV, and no Epiphones came standard with it. You've got an extremely rare bird there--leave it stock, and get a cord made so you can use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPDEN Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 +1 to what JFine said. That's an uncommon find you have. I'd be interested to learn more about it's origins and if it's all complete and original? If so, you're safeguarder of a nice example of Epi history. I could stare at that finish all day, it is just gorgeous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sookwinder Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 After a lot of thought over the last week or so, as well as listening to the P90s through various amps (pushing a mono guitar lead in fully and then pulling it half out to get access to the Casino's P90s individually) I've come to the decision that I shall leave the varitone system in as it is ... in the original condition. I have read in a number of places on the WWW that the varitone components can drift, especially after 40 or 50 years ... old caps and resistors do this in amps , so there is no reason they haven't in the varitone unit. But given what it is and the vast pallette of sounds available using the standard tone/volume controls and the varitone that I have heard while playing, even if the components have drifted it is a great sounding guitar. What I will do though is have the stereo output jack replaced with a mono output jack, when my luthier has a look at the repair around the jack. (I'd like to remove the black plastic washer and maybe replace it with a nickel coloured washer). If I can I'll see if I can get some photos of the inside electrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfine Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 sookwinder--you could do that, and it would work--but there's a pretty good chance that you've got a one-of-a-kind guitar there--I wouldn't mess with it at all if I were you! The only downside to leaving the jack stereo would be that you'd have to have several custom-made cords--gotta have spares! (do you call them "leads" over there in Oz like the Brits do?), but at least you wouldn't be messing with what might be the rarest Casino in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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