Woody Duke Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I have an '03 Dot natural with coil-split Carvin humbuckers. It sounds, plays, and looks great. With the split coils I can get any sound except for the Fender quack. I hate strats because they look so generic. Does anyone know if it's possible to add an out of phase circuit? I heard somewhere that that might be the source of the quack. Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Sure, you can do as many mods as you want to any guitar........It won't get you a genuine Strat sound.......I say, get a Strat..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNick Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I hate strats because they look so generic. Same for all popular guitars including your DOT. ES-335 types, Les Pauls, Teles, Strats. etc...... The list is never ending. Get over it. It boils down to the sound it makes and if you can control it properly. If you "hate" an instrument you will never be able to control it, and It will never play well for you. Sorry, there is no quack for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazerface Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I dunno about a quack, but i can make my p90s honk...give a p94 a try and crank your mids on your amp, i think the honk has more balls than a quack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSAR Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Did that help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Did that help? What if he's not a leftie ????? :unsure: :blink: ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfunkz Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Same for all popular guitars including your DOT. ES-335 types, Les Pauls, Teles, Strats. etc...... The list is never ending. Get over it. It boils down to the sound it makes and if you can control it properly. If you "hate" an instrument you will never be able to control it, and It will never play well for you. Sorry, there is no quack for you. I have to agree with this you cant say astrat looks generic, without including all popular shapes, thats the nature of the beast isnt it? the "quack" is in the pickups though some have a better quack than others, just go and pick up one of the higher end squier models you'll be surprised at how good they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Duke Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 If you "hate" an instrument you will never be able to control it, and It will never play well for you. Sorry, there is no quack for you. I spoke over hastily in using the word "hate." I love the sound of a strat on the second and fourth position, and I am asking whether anyone has achieved a similar sound with any combination of coils and wiring or filters on a 2-HB instrument. What I should have said was that I deplore the way that so many manufacturers have stolen the design. I wish that they had the integrity to at least creatively modify Leo's possibly greatest creation so their products could at least be considered an homage rather than an outright theft. In point of fact, no guitar will "play well" for me; my hands have been ravaged by MS, and I can do very little that I once could. I persevere because it's good therapy, and I find the community of guitar players to be, with (apparently) some exceptions, kind and helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 The overall design differences between HBs and Fender type single coils don't lend themselves to compatability no matter what options are tried...... If it could be done, it would have been done years ago...........I'm very sorry to hear about your MS...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfine Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 The only thing that sounds like a Strat is a Strat. The "quack" tones come from combining a middle single-coil with either a bridge or a neck single-coil (and, by the way, they're not out of phase.) If you don't like the look of a Strat, you might consider adding a Strat middle pickup to a Telecaster--it'll get you close; not identical, but close. If you can get a 24-fret, two-humbucker guitar, you can coil-split the humbuckers and access the inside coils of each pickup together, (back coil of neck pickup and front coil of bridge pickup)--the two coils are about the same distance apart as the pickups on a Strat, so you'll get some of the quack. They're in a different place under the strings than a Strat's pickups, so it won't be identical, but it's a good way to suggest Strat tones without having a middle pickup. The 24-fret neck is crucial for this, as the pickups are a little closer together than on a 22-fret guitar. Which Carvin pickups have you got? I have a Carvin Holdsworth Fatboy with H22 pickups, and with both pickups split, it can suggest a Strat pretty well, but it's got a 24-fret neck and a 25-1/2" scale, which gives it a little more snap. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like your Dot's going to give you any quack--the pickups are too far apart. In the Epiphone line--this is the Epiphone forum, after all--you have a few options. A G400 (SG Standard-style) would be a good candidate for the coil-split mod, as the neck pickup is a little further from the end of the fretboard, in the same place that it would be on a 24-fret guitar. The '61 Reissue SG Special with P-90's has a little quack in the middle position too, and an Epi that would work without any mods at all would be the Riviera with three P-90's, if you can find one. If you want a guitar that will do both humbucker and single-coil sounds, get a Nighthawk Custom reissue. I'm thinking of getting one of those myself, but I haven't been able to find one to try yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanH Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 The only thing that sounds like a Strat is a Strat. The "quack" tones come from combining a middle single-coil with either a bridge or a neck single-coil (and, by the way, they're not out of phase.) If you don't like the look of a Strat, you might consider adding a Strat middle pickup to a Telecaster--it'll get you close; not identical, but close. If you can get a 24-fret, two-humbucker guitar, you can coil-split the humbuckers and access the inside coils of each pickup together, (back coil of neck pickup and front coil of bridge pickup)--the two coils are about the same distance apart as the pickups on a Strat, so you'll get some of the quack. They're in a different place under the strings than a Strat's pickups, so it won't be identical, but it's a good way to suggest Strat tones without having a middle pickup. The 24-fret neck is crucial for this, as the pickups are a little closer together than on a 22-fret guitar. Which Carvin pickups have you got? I have a Carvin Holdsworth Fatboy with H22 pickups, and with both pickups split, it can suggest a Strat pretty well, but it's got a 24-fret neck and a 25-1/2" scale, which gives it a little more snap. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like your Dot's going to give you any quack--the pickups are too far apart. In the Epiphone line--this is the Epiphone forum, after all--you have a few options. A G400 (SG Standard-style) would be a good candidate for the coil-split mod, as the neck pickup is a little further from the end of the fretboard, in the same place that it would be on a 24-fret guitar. The '61 Reissue SG Special with P-90's has a little quack in the middle position too, and an Epi that would work without any mods at all would be the Riviera with three P-90's, if you can find one. If you want a guitar that will do both humbucker and single-coil sounds, get a Nighthawk Custom reissue. I'm thinking of getting one of those myself, but I haven't been able to find one to try yet. Yes, I've heard this. It's not an out-of-phase sound it's two single coils combined together as if parallel and it's the distance between the two of them that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueman335 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 There's a few options. One is to add a push-pull for phase. You can add 4 push-pulls and get the Jimmy Page system, which does phase, coil cuts on each PU, and links the PU's in series. Cool stuff, but not quite a quack. You can also get HB-sized P-90's, which are true single coils, but not the puny Fender kind, so they sound fuller. If you visit the Duncan Forum (Pickup Lounge) one of the guys there came up with a 'coil swap mod' that takes the slug coil of the bridge HB and pairs it with the screw coil of the neck HB, which makes a "virtual HB", like a Strat in position 2 and 4. The guy is ArtieToo. Ask him to post the diagram for you. One of the things that gives Fender singles their sound is that the pole pieces are individual round magnets, with the wire wrapped around them. Gibson designed HB's and P-90's with flat bar magnets under the coils. I think Duncan makes a couple HB's with individual magents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNick Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 If I sounded a bit harsh I'm sorry Woddy D. When I read your blanket statement about Strats looking generic it just reminded me of the guys who won't play any guitars because of the neck "feel". Thus my response. I can say that I have not seen or heard of a Quacky Bucker set. I know it can be done with 1 single and a split bucker. Phostenix Wiring Diagrams Try this site.It has a lot of possibilities for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigneil Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Guitar player Alvin Lee modified His ES 335 to include a strat pickup in between the humbuckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Not all strats have a lot of quack. I have done a lot of mods and different options with strats, and the way to get that strat to quack is to use identical output pups wired the traditional way...as in not reverse polarity and not out of phase. When I would deviate, the more it gets away from that "recipee", the more of that quack goes away. For example, using 'compensated' pup sets, where the bridge is a little hotter than the mid pup, and the mid pup a little hotter than the neck pup. The closer the pups are in output, the more quack. Using rwrp pups in the mid position also seems to balance things out a little, and removes a little more of that quack. Wiring a pair out of phase does give some serious quack, but the output is so lowered it makes a whole different sound and tone than the typical strat quack. Don't sound the same. Also, in guitars I have put a really hot bridge pup in, using this in combination with a normal strat pup produces no quack at all. completely gone. Said all that to say that the strat quack seems to be the result of some form of phasing, or frequency cancellation, only in this case because the pups are so close in output and frequency. Not exactly a cancellation of frequencies cause by reverse electrical wave-forms, but rather the same ones occupying the same space and timing. The sound heard and the effects are similer. Said all THAT to say that although you can't make a Gibby with its fat full tone sound anything like a strat, you CAN make it funky to sit in the same place in the mix as a strat would. A true out-of-phase deal will cut the output considerably, which simulates the output of a strat. It will thin the sound as well, so PLAYING a guitar like that would be used a lot like a strat would. Consider T-BONE WALKER with his reverse phase P-90s. Not a strat sound, but still a sound closer to it than typical Gibson full humbucker tone. So rather than try and imitate a strat, go toward something else, like funky, and judge the tone on it's own merits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Duke Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 In the last few days, I've been getting quite an "eduquacktion." It appears to be a happy accident resulting from the combination of the distance between the pickups and the type of switch that Leo used. If he had used a Gibson-style three-way toggle switch, stratquack might have never been discovered. To those who say that a Dot could never sound anything like a Strat, I must respectfully disagree. In split bridge mode, mine already sounds very much like a Telecaster. I believe that by installing a single coil in the middle at the proper distance, since my bridge pickup is deliberately not very hot, a type of quack could be achieved. I'm sure it wouldn't be exactly like a Strat, but there's a wide variation even between Strats. (Listen to Guitar Tone Network podcast number 008: "The Strat goes quack, quack, quack.") I'm just not sure I want to do radical surgery on my Dot! My thanks to SNick for the wiring chart site, and to stein, bigneil, blueman335, and jfine for their helpful suggestions. BTW jfine, I have Carvin C22 pickups (chrome cover, no exposed polepieces). The stock pickups were fine, but the clarity of a friend's CT6 convinced me to make the switch, and I've been very pleased with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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