j45nick Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 With the sheer diversity of music at my fingertips I'm glad to be alive today rather than back in the 60's. On the other hand, I'm glad to have been alive in the 60's, and even happier to still be alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackcooper Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 On the other hand, I'm glad to have been alive in the 60's, and even happier to still be alive. Well that is the best of both worlds. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Some good points Jack I think this is a very ..very bad time for music though. One of the problems for me is there is TOO much stuff at the click of a mouse away. Like TV you have a 1000 channels of crap to choose from. There must be good new stuff out there....PLEASE..haha But where are they..Where are the Fela Kuti's.. Stevie Wonders... Thee Smiths... Radio Heads... the kids are into DJing and Dubstep... I could write a few pages about DJ'ing but basicaly playing other peoples music and being classed as a star does'nt really hold up for me. I love Black American Electronic Dance music... bit it is truely a sign of the times when this is the aspired to culture. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0dlH7wSL1c&feature=related Well Marr and Morrisey are still going albeit separately, aren't they Del? Radiohead go from strength to strength it seems (see the recent post of Thom Yorke with Hummingbird). As long as he lives there is always a chance that Stevie Wonder might just record another classic - and if he doesn't, then I suspect it's to do with his own lack of inspiration rather than the the fact that Simon Cowell and Louis Walsh are pumping out so much stuff. And there are plenty of recent newcomers who are comparably gifted and original. If you like kitchen-sink British, the Arctic Monkeys are every bit as good as the Smiths (better, given that they're from the right side of the Pennines). If you like ethereal close-harmony pop, the Fleet Foxes can give CSN and the Beach Boys a run for their millions. Jack White actually seems to get better with age. There are loads of great bands and individual musicians out there, with more exposure than they might have had in past decades. You just need to turn the X Factor off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackcooper Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Well Marr and Morrisey are still going albeit separately, aren't they Del? Radiohead go from strength to strength it seems (see the recent post of Thom Yorke with Hummingbird). As long as he lives there is always a chance that Stevie Wonder might just record another classic - and if he doesn't, then I suspect it's to do with his own lack of inspiration rather than the the fact that Simon Cowell and Louis Walsh are pumping out so much stuff. And there are plenty of recent newcomers who are comparably gifted and original. If you like kitchen-sink British, the Arctic Monkeys are every bit as good as the Smiths (better, given that they're from the right side of the Pennines). If you like ethereal close-harmony pop, the Fleet Foxes can give CSN and the Beach Boys a run for their millions. Jack White actually seems to get better with age. There are loads of great bands and individual musicians out there, with more exposure than they might have had in past decades. You just need to turn the X Factor off. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I had the same reaction when I saw Sigur Ros two years ago in Prague, quite mesermizing, and I wasnt expecting much.. When I did reviews for that Lux based magazine, Sigur Ros were my 2nd interview, they were a nightmare to speak to. The gig itself was truly amazing, set in a cathedral, open air segment in just the right amount of dusk, they should have made a live DVD of that night, it was fantastic. TUPPENCEWORTH ALERT! I think this is a very ..very bad time for music though. One of the problems for me is there is TOO much stuff at the click of a mouse away. Like TV you have a 1000 channels of crap to choose from. I'd have to disagree with you there Del, I remember reading a piece in a mag along the lines of Studies showed that people tended to reflect on the music they listened to between the ages of 15-25 as the best era in music, regardless of their current age. Reasoning being it was when people were most excited by it, felt it could change the world etc.. in other words swept along with the youthful passion of it all. Chin strokey analysis aside we all know there's more to the best bands than talent or abilities, take the best band of any era and you'll find better players out there, riskier, more innovative people in darker corners. The big bands all have the image, the something that makes people believe they sum up the current times we live in within a single package, like a polaroid snapshot I suppose. The Beatles had it, Dylan had it despite appearing and sounding less commercial than the typical act that elevates to those heights, these days DJ's have it, in our day the masters of the indie scene had it. People had stopped taking so much E and moved back into pubs & pints culture by 1994, the early dance scene movers and shakers were semi-frazzled, probably married/cohabiting and dealing with nippers by then. The next wave saw the later 90's changes in what was popular in the E's & whizz scene too as well as the birth of the super DJ, the same happened in guitar music, parameters change. What doesn't change is there was a bunch of 15-25 year olds who thought they were living in the pinnacle of music times. By the time you're our age people are often a bit jaded towards popular music. The article I mentioned earlier went on to suggest 35-45 were most critical of current music, 45-55 (with teenage children) the most open to the current music and 55-70 The least likely to have heard current music. All very generalised of course, but not without its merits either. he difference between now and yesteryear is that good music isn't offered up on a plate like back then. You have to look for it in the undergrowth. :) Music is competing with a lot more these days, film, multimedia, games, the big fish in these scenes play with bigger budgets than the typical music release. Illegal downloads have killed the role of the mega-rich rock star, they're a dying breed. It's a lot easier to get paid work as a DJ and you've plenty time for the ladies and the after parties. Being a rock star is effortlessly cool though when done right, that alone will keep it alive, that and the fact you only get one or two genuine ones per generation anyway. Mojo mentioned the Arctic Monkeys earlier, loathe, like or love them you have to applaud the young fellas work rate. He's produced quite a lot of output in just a few short years by comparison to his peers. Another few years under his belt and he'll be more cynical than Mark E. Smith although a marginally better writer and overall listening experience. I think the healthiest approach to music is to remember that a little bit of everything does you good. Except metal, no good can come from looking like that, the clothes are terrible, they yield a fat white ginger guy with dreads and a cowboy hat who took 15 years to record an album as some sort of demigod. Check yourself before you wreck yourself, brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Well Marr and Morrisey are still going albeit separately, aren't they Del? Radiohead go from strength to strength it seems (see the recent post of Thom Yorke with Hummingbird). As long as he lives there is always a chance that Stevie Wonder might just record another classic - and if he doesn't, then I suspect it's to do with his own lack of inspiration rather than the the fact that Simon Cowell and Louis Walsh are pumping out so much stuff. And there are plenty of recent newcomers who are comparably gifted and original. If you like kitchen-sink British, the Arctic Monkeys are every bit as good as the Smiths (better, given that they're from the right side of the Pennines). If you like ethereal close-harmony pop, the Fleet Foxes can give CSN and the Beach Boys a run for their millions. Jack White actually seems to get better with age. There are loads of great bands and individual musicians out there, with more exposure than they might have had in past decades. You just need to turn the X Factor off. You missed my point Mojo Marr Morrisey..must be in there 50's now..Radio head in their 40's S Wonder must be nearing 70... What the hell has Cowell and Walsh got to do with my post? Havent Heard owt from Artic Monkeys for years..as good as The Smiths... haha.. Fleet Foxes...hmmm well if thats what ya holding up as great new talent... listened to in 20 years ? Same as Roikspop/ Sigur Ros...its coffee table music for me..elevator music..good for adverts and good old J White.. well hes about 40 too and starting to get abit like an aging rocker really aint he ? I thought you would realise from my recent posts with PM.. I dont watch XFactior my friend......I dont have a TV ( Excuse the rant Mojo..I think I took ur post in the wrong manner.... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 PM maybe its as you get to our age your tastes have refined somewhat..and you can tell the real good stuff from the mediocre hopefully I think what I am trying to say is....nearly everything " new " I listen to nowadays... it just seem like you already heard it all before... only better. Edit but of course yes I am getting old but lets just have a look at our 'golden years ' PM in the late 80's early 90 you had Nirvana...... Red Hot chilli's..The Pixies..Janes Addiction ..The Stone Roses..Happy Mondays.. The Smashing Pumpkins..Public Enemy..RadioHead..Dr Dre..Snoop Dog..Nas..Portishead ..Massive Attack..the list could go on..... AND the whole dance music explosion The 80's was abit of a waste land..wasn't it ? of course theer are exceptions the 70's...take your pick..some fantasic music..and then of course your at the 60's ( you could take it back through the years further...Jazz..Blues..Rock n Roll ) name me the bands/musicians of the last 10 years..who I've missed...... PLEASE..where are they? Unfortunately... seeing as it has been mentioned..I honestly beleive the likes of XFactor has something to do with the lack of great music being easily heard..or indeed..made. that and the whole DJ cvulture... I think we are in a period much like the 80's...only worse ah well..think I'll put some Muddy Waters on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 PM maybe its as you get to our age your tastes have refined somewhat..and you can tell the real good stuff from the mediocre hopefully I think what I am trying to say is....nearly everything " new " I listen to nowadays... it just seem like you already heard it all before... only better. That's a dangerous place to be in, I would urge you to 'find the love' at your earliest convenience. in the late 80's early 90 you had Nirvana...... Red Hot chilli's..The Pixies..Janes Addiction ..The Stone Roses..Happy Mondays.. The Smashing Pumpkins..Public Enemy..RadioHead..Dr Dre..Snoop Dog..Nas..Portishead ..Massive Attack..the list could go on..... AND the whole dance music explosion Nirvana... Spawned a lot more shoddy bands than good. Red Hot Chillis... never been a fan in the slightest, I'd rather have a tooth pulled out than sit through one of their albums. The Pixies...... more of a 'cool name to drop' sort of band than anything else, although I did enjoy them at the time. Jane's Addiction... hmmm, wonder how many people can name more than 'Been caught stealin' without the aid of google. The Roses.... Ah the roses, hard for me to be impartial there..... The Mondays... Got Steadily worse with each record, great start though. First two records are great. Public Enemy... Sadly bound to be remembered as much for Prof Griff anti-semitism and Flavour Flav's clock & gold teeth ensemble and it's all about "takes a nation of millions" really isn't it? Radiohead.... continually demonstrating that when you record an album as hard hitting as OK computer, you get a lot of 'wiggle room' with subsequent records. Without OK Computer people would look back at Radiohead as having gone off the rails after 'The Bends'. OK Computer's continual appearance on "best album ever' type lists gives them all the clearance they need to exercise their jazz demons on more recent recordings. Name me the bands/musicians of the last 10 years..who I've missed...... PLEASE..where are they? Not much point if you have a negative preconception towards it. Unfortunately... seeing as it has been mentioned..I honestly beleive the likes of XFactor has something to do with the lack of great music being easily heard..or indeed..made. Hahaha, seriously? You don't think that Xfactor is the antithesis of what every bedroom guitarist is all about, you don't think that Xfactor is a kiss of death to credibility? I certainly do... Kids who go on that because they're looking for the short path to money & success kill any chances they might have by their appearance on the show. Lets be clear Xfactor is all about the "journey" (oh how I hate that word) that they go through for the 15-16 weeks it's on our screens. Week by week they're exposed, puppeteered, into theme weeks, their journey, low points, high points, dramatic week where a family member or dog dies cue the tears and "I just need people to vote for me" dialogue. Little do they realize that phone votes by mum's, grannies & kids on a Saturday night do not translate to record sales. Even for the winner, they are released to a record market at the end for which their fans have moved on and are already talking about next season on blogs and whether Mr Cowell will appear in person. All very easy to shoot down, but is it any more than a jazzed up for the modern times version of Opportunity Knocks & New Faces? No, it's not.... They've americanised it with heavy emphasis on the emotions you're supposed to feel as the show moves along and exposed much more 'back story' for each act, but essentially they're the same, phone votes, clapometers, same stuff really isn't it? To say a Saturday night show has dominated the music scene is ludicrous, I'd say the majority of acts in any city wouldn't watch or be interested in Xfactor and would be out on the tiles on a saturday night instead of watching family entertainment pantomime shows. that and the whole DJ cvulture... I think we are in a period much like the 80's...only worse With a DJ, the calibre of the music is set, it's all already recorded, it's easy and by and large it's cheap. Buy a license, give them a little space in a booth / behind the bar etc... and you're off. By Comparison to some young band playing a bunch of songs people have never heard to a half empty bar. Do you honestly think bars & clubs care about what's scheduled on their roster as long as bums on seats is the end result? I certainly don't.... ah well..think I'll put some Muddy Waters on A man who does not continuously and tirelessly fight to broaden his horizons inevitably narrows them by his own apathy... make a point to go find new music, stop blaming Simon Cowell it really isn't his fault, he's only marginally effective in a single market of music anyway. By not owning a TV you're not really exposed anyway. Sounds like you need to get yourself out & about more, try some new drugs or something. You need to find the love, Delboy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Good old Rodney..I knew I could count on you. Worringly though your posts, like your avatar, are getting wilder by the week. ;) I will search for the love in my heart.. love you Del ( apologies to other members for being a grumpy old swine of late..and causing untold sighs of discontent and mirth..heheh ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Worringly though your posts, like your avatar, are getting wilder by the week. ;) You're the one blaming a Saturday night TV show panto baddie as the single reason the entire music industry does not appeal to you. I will search for the love in my heart.. love you yeah, yeah, ye say you love me, you never write, you never call... you try to point score when we talk in public, you're an abusive partner Del, I think we need to talk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackcooper Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 PM maybe its as you get to our age your tastes have refined somewhat..and you can tell the real good stuff from the mediocre hopefully I think what I am trying to say is....nearly everything " new " I listen to nowadays... it just seem like you already heard it all before... only better. Edit but of course yes I am getting old but lets just have a look at our 'golden years ' PM in the late 80's early 90 you had Nirvana...... Red Hot chilli's..The Pixies..Janes Addiction ..The Stone Roses..Happy Mondays.. The Smashing Pumpkins..Public Enemy..RadioHead..Dr Dre..Snoop Dog..Nas..Portishead ..Massive Attack..the list could go on..... AND the whole dance music explosion The 80's was abit of a waste land..wasn't it ? of course theer are exceptions the 70's...take your pick..some fantasic music..and then of course your at the 60's ( you could take it back through the years further...Jazz..Blues..Rock n Roll ) name me the bands/musicians of the last 10 years..who I've missed...... PLEASE..where are they? Unfortunately... seeing as it has been mentioned..I honestly beleive the likes of XFactor has something to do with the lack of great music being easily heard..or indeed..made. that and the whole DJ cvulture... I think we are in a period much like the 80's...only worse ah well..think I'll put some Muddy Waters on That's why I'm saying don't listen to the newest bands. Wait until they have a few albums under their belts before you dive in. You've got to remember that Radioheads first album was pretty crappy (only had one memorable song), the Stone Roses only had one good album (or was it as good as the hype suggested?), and I agree with Parlourman that Nirvana spawned a whole host of rubbish bands. I never thought Nirvana were that special anyhow. I teach guitar and so get to hear all the new "in" music. And most of it is total nonsense, but then kids aren't really that switched on. It's usually when kids get slightly older that they start finding real music. It really is out there. Sigur Ros = Elevator music? I'd be terrified if it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 The Stone Roses only had one good album (or was it as good as the hype suggested?) Sure the production used may have dated a little, the extensive reverb and severe multi-tracking of vocals on most of the tracks covers a multitude of sins when you see the live vocal performances, however, nothing for years before and many years after touched it. The closest record to it would have been the La's album, a stunning body of work had they managed to get Lee Mavers off the heroin long enough to decide he'd finished it and actually willingly promote it rather than asking people not to buy it and slagging it off in every bit of press they had. I'd go so far to say that with a bit of the right attitude and a bit of a makeover to get the image right and a more settled lineup instead of the constant changes, the La's would have been every bit as big as the roses. Such a shame the only song they're known for is There She Goes, poppy for sure, but among their weakest efforts. The Stone Roses only had one good album (or was it as good as the hype suggested?)I teach guitar and so get to hear all the new "in" music. And most of it is total nonsense, but then kids aren't really that switched on. It's usually when kids get slightly older that they start finding real music. It really is out there. We all have our Skeletons Jack, I'm fairly sure Del's early ventures into music weren't the most nuanced of choices either unless he was a late starter and fairly well guided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 You missed my point Mojo Marr Morrisey..must be in there 50's now..Radio head in their 40's S Wonder must be nearing 70... What the hell has Cowell and Walsh got to do with my post? Havent Heard owt from Artic Monkeys for years..as good as The Smiths... haha.. Fleet Foxes...hmmm well if thats what ya holding up as great new talent... listened to in 20 years ? Same as Roikspop/ Sigur Ros...its coffee table music for me..elevator music..good for adverts and good old J White.. well hes about 40 too and starting to get abit like an aging rocker really aint he ? I thought you would realise from my recent posts with PM.. I dont watch XFactior my friend......I dont have a TV ( Excuse the rant Mojo..I think I took ur post in the wrong manner.... ) Well if that was your point Del, then fine, though I think that your original post was also missing it. You asked where the good new music is, and where the Smiths, Wonders, etc are. Good new music can come from old blocks, as with Dylan's new album that you've been praising recently. Since in their 50s or 70s the people listed are still producing music, it is quite possible that they are the new they. You didn't ask where the 20-year olds are who are as groundbreaking as the Smiths - though I now take it that your question was intended to mean as much. As PM pointed out, it might seem that you are predisposed against anything produced by somebody aged 20-30: there is a risk that either their music won't be original enough to please you, or that its experimentalism will make it less listenable and of dubious quality. As for the examples I cited, I reckon that the Fleet Foxes will be listened to in 20 years time - or at least no less that CSN were listened to in the late 1980s and early 1990s. They're not my favourite band, and my age and personal preferences might make me considerably more likely to put the Stone Roses on my stereo, but when it comes to 1960s-influenced pop, I have to admit that they are far more subtle borrowers and practioners than Messrs Squire, Brown, Mounfield and Wren. Not got the groove, obviously, completely different musical aims, but they can do technically impressive stuff which really sounds good. Clear 60s references, but not pure pastiche - they're not copyists. Whereas the Second Coming screamed Zeppelin pastiche (nowt wrong with it - I loved the album, despite the haters, but massively original it was not), and Elizabeth My Dear should be credited partially to Martin Carthy and Paul Simon. Not sure why you've not heard owt from the Monkeys recently, since they had a new single out in April, and it even made it onto the radio in Hungary. Seriously they are more of an ensemble act than the Smiths, and their rhythm section would trounce Joyce and Rourke any day. Besides which Alex Turner hasn't penned anything like National Front Disco or Bengali in Platforms. Again, I'd probably rather listen to the Smiths on most days, since they're a bit more laid back for the most part, but I have Barnsley connections, and so I have a soft spot for the Monkeys too. They certainly have their own sound which is well honed, tuneful and danceable in its way. Matt Helders's drumming does make me sit up and notice, as does Turner's voice. I happen to like most of the acts you list as examples of great music, but they don't display an originality which is obviously greater than that of anybody I've named. When I first heard Smells Like Teen Spirit, I wondered who Sting and Andy Summers had been collaborating with. Johnny Marr is pretty unique, but he got his jingle-jangle from Roger McGuinn and George Harrison, same as everybody else. And there was so much cartoonish 1960s rehashing going on in 1988-1991 that I actually gave up listening to new music for a while and just concentrated on my dad's record collection: Hendrix was better than early Blur, Revolver-era Beatles were infinitely preferable to most of the shoegazing stuff. Hey, I was a proto-Del in 1989! Then I regretted missing out on REM's only truly great album and Nevermind in 1991. I wouldn't knock the whole era. Some years are better than others (1991 was remarkable, after a period of mediocrity). 2008-9 was great too. 2013 might just float your boat. Hey and less of the Jack White is about 40 too! He's just a smidgen younger than I am. Which means that technically he's closer to 35 than he is to 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 The success (or lack of) that Dinosaur Jr have had has very little to do with "dudes in suits". They've never become a household name and never really tried to either. They've just plowed away in their niche doing what they love to do. I also wouldn't describe it as "common stuff". I can't think of any band that sounds that similar to Dinosaur Jr and I'm a music nerd. The other thing I would add is that J Mascis has a pretty unique style on the guitar. Pretty hard to emulate convincingly (much more so than someone like Eric Clapton). Often the problem with people from the "good old days" is that they can't see past the 1970's. I imagine (maybe I'm wrong though)that when you listened to the Dinosaur clips you gave less than a minute to each one before dismissing it as "common stuff". Music's moved on since the "good old days", if it hadn't I'd be pretty bored. With the almost infinite amounts of music available only a mouse click away I think we're living in a far more exciting time for music than any that went before. I went to see this band a few months ago. Never had more goosebumps in my life. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewojV4j_ndU (listen to it to the end before dismissing it as choir boy stuff ) Cheers Jack..I swear I listened to the two clips & I listened again after reading this and I am convinced in general that he sucks. Maybe somewhere in his career there is great stuff. That video you posted with that music was supernatural.. Thanks. Im gonna look into them.Beautifull video & the breakout at that moment was fantastic. Concerning Choir Boy stuff....you are talking to Choir central. Traditional English/Irish Choir music is some of the ultimate in music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 As PM pointed out, it might seem that you are predisposed against anything produced by somebody aged 20-30: there is a risk that either their music won't be original enough to please you, or that its experimentalism will make it less listenable and of dubious quality. Yes, he's been a grumpy bugger lately. Besides which Alex Turner hasn't penned anything like National Front Disco or Bengali in Platforms. He shoots, he scores. Point to Mojo :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Cheers Jack..I swear I listened to the two clips & I listened again after reading this and I am convinced in general that he sucks. Maybe somewhere in his career there is great stuff. That video you posted with that music was supernatural.. Thanks. Im gonna look into them.Beautifull video & the breakout at that moment was fantastic. Concerning Choir Boy stuff....you are talking to Choir central. Traditional English/Irish Choir music is some of the ultimate in music. aww c'mon !! seriously ??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackcooper Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Cheers Jack..I swear I listened to the two clips & I listened again after reading this and I am convinced in general that he sucks. Maybe somewhere in his career there is great stuff. That video you posted with that music was supernatural.. Thanks. Im gonna look into them.Beautifull video & the breakout at that moment was fantastic. Concerning Choir Boy stuff....you are talking to Choir central. Traditional English/Irish Choir music is some of the ultimate in music. Hahaha, that's ok. We all like different stuff. Dinosaur Jr just make me feel like it's summer time and I'm ten years younger. Yeah Sigur Ros are great. Very powerful and atmospheric. You should check out the singer's solo album too. It's very different, (infinitely brighter) but pretty catchy and quirky. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Hahaha, that's ok. We all like different stuff. Dinosaur Jr just make me feel like it's summer time and I'm ten years younger. Yeah Sigur Ros are great. Very powerful and atmospheric. You should check out the singer's solo album too. It's very different, (infinitely brighter) but pretty catchy and quirky. Cheers. Thanks Jack ,I will. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 I swear BB...some of the greatest music ever written was for choir music. And the Irish & English really have it right, performing it as it was originally . I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainsman Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 You all are great! I had no idea this would stir the pot so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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