Single-coil question

[heymisterk]

Happy New Year!

 

I have a question about single-coil pick-ups and what makes them noisy vs. less noisy.

 

Now, as a certifiable P-90 nut, I am aware that you get the trademark hum because the P-90s have much more winding than a traditional single-coil. My question is, Is that why some other single-coils hum more than others? It stands to reason, but I am a technical novice with this stuff.

 

When I took my MIM Tele for my lesson, I struck up a question with the owner of the guitar shop and he told me he thinks MIM Tele's are great values for the money, but that I might want to consider swapping out the pick-ups because they are noisy.

 

Indeed they are, but I love the sound of them. So, the question is, Do I have to take more hum for a hotter sound as a package deal, just like my P-90s? (Note: I tried a guitar once with a noise-cancelling P-90, and I do NOT think is sounded as good.) Finally, do any of you have an aftermarket pick-up recommendation (especially for the bridge) for a Tele that strikes a balance between noise and hot-ness?

 

Thanks in advance?

[Riffster]

Happy New Year!

 

I am not sure what it is in the design and build of a single coil that makes them noisy but I know that computer monitors, fluorescent lights and what outlet your amp is plugged into can contribute to the noise.

 

As for recommendations: you can't go wrong with GFS pickups, great quality at a great price, I have used a couple of their pickups and they are a great value.

 

It looks like they have noiseless pickups with options for output. Their page also has sound clips.

 

http://www.guitarfetish.com/Neovin-bridge-Pickups_c_141.html

[Versatile]

Best to read around the subject for a full understanding of noisy pickups

 

Try 'wiki humbucker' for a detailed explanation...

 

All single coils hum more or less

 

Hence the creation of the 'humbucker' pickup to cancel out AC mains induced hum and interference

 

Many guitarists like the bright glassy tones of single coils and tolerate any hums produced

 

Humbuckers produce a darker thicker sound which overdrives to many players' taste

 

Hence the propensity for 'thinking' guitarists to have 'more than one guitar'... <_<

 

V

 

[Ryan H]

P90's do not hum because of a "hotter wind". P90's can be wound to the same output as any Strat or Tele pickup. The difference is the magnet configurations. Tele and Strat pickups generally use individual magnetic rods in the bobbin (the "slugs"). These give off a fairly precise magnetic field. Now a P90; it doesn't use magnetic rods, it uses machine screws with two bar magnets underneath the bobbin. The magnets are positioned so their magnetic fields push against eachother, and it "fires" the magnetic field upwards, through the path of least resistance. This is a much stronger and uncontrolled field.

 

Antenna work on electromagnetic (radio) waves. Obviously in a device (such as a single coil pickup) that gives off a magnetic field, interference is a given.

 

I won't go into how Humbuckers cancel this hum. The information is available all over the Internet.

 

The reason many hum canceling pickups don't do the regular versions justice is because in the process of canceling hum, you're also going to cancel out some high frequencies.

 

-Ryan

[jdgm]

Take a look at Kent Armstrong and Seymours if you are thinking of replacing the bridge pu.

 

http://www.wdmusic.com/kent_armstrong_tele_pickups.html

 

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/telecaster/

 

I had a Duncan Hot Rails for bridge once, which was far too high output - if I'd wanted to replace the neck pu too it would have worked, but my Tele bridge pu was rewound many years ago by Kent Armstrong, sounds so sweet and it's the right volume level. Duncan has a bigger range. Difficult decision.

[bonzoboy]

I have an '04 MIM Tele and I found that just changing your footing to affect the orientation of the angle of the guitar to the amp can make a very noticeable difference and that way you don't have to compromise the original Tele pickup sound at all.The proximity of which you stand to the amp also makes a big difference.If you want to keep your authentic Tele sound without compromising the tone at all,try Lindy Fralin pickups,they maintain all the signature tone without making the pickup hotter.

[stein]

P90's do not hum because of a "hotter wind". P90's can be wound to the same output as any Strat or Tele pickup. The difference is the magnet configurations. Tele and Strat pickups generally use individual magnetic rods in the bobbin (the "slugs"). These give off a fairly precise magnetic field. Now a P90; it doesn't use magnetic rods, it uses machine screws with two bar magnets underneath the bobbin. The magnets are positioned so their magnetic fields push against eachother, and it "fires" the magnetic field upwards, through the path of least resistance. This is a much stronger and uncontrolled field.

 

Antenna work on electromagnetic (radio) waves. Obviously in a device (such as a single coil pickup) that gives off a magnetic field, interference is a given.

 

I won't go into how Humbuckers cancel this hum. The information is available all over the Internet.

 

The reason many hum canceling pickups don't do the regular versions justice is because in the process of canceling hum, you're also going to cancel out some high frequencies.

 

-Ryan

There may be some truth to this, but the amount of hum you get is pretty much the result of how 'hot' the pup is...in other words, the hotter the pup, the more volume the hum has.

 

P-90's, even in 'standard' output, are pretty hot compared to other pups. Even the Fralin -15% wind is still much hotter than a Strat or Tele pup. I don't know of any "underwound" or P-90 available that is near the output of a 'standard' Fender wind.

[stein]

Personally, I don't know of ANY stacked or otherwise, humbuckers that sound like single coils. Those made to 'sound' like them don't.

 

However, that doesn't mean that a humbucker can't or won't sound good....in fact, there are many who have various versions that seem to like the way they sound.

 

Regarding the dealer, I don't know him. But regarding pup swaps, MOST poeple I have known (including, myself) swap out the Mexican pups because they want a better pup, as opposed to hum reasons.

 

Regarding noise: I have learned to deal with it in two ways: For one, I use the volume knob. Fender's have a master volume that's easy to hit, and USUALLY the complaints I get are in between songs or quiet passages where I ain't supposed to be heard, so hitting the volume is a second-nature thing. Up to play, off to be silent.

 

The other way, is like said above. When recording, there always seems to be at least ONE direction or position you can orient the guitar where it will be silent. It works.

 

Regarding eleminating noise: If you are the experiementing type, and good with a soldering iron, there's a few things you can try: one, is to add a "shielding plate" or a "back plate" to the bridge pup. It's a plate the size of the bottom of the bridge pup that is soldered to the grond of the pup. Origonal Tele's and Bradcasters had this. Leo intended this as a shield for noise. I have used them, and they make the tone fatter. I haven't payed attention to noise levels when comparing. But I can tell you, they DO fatten up the tone a bit. Maybe increase output a bit as advertised.

 

Another thing to try is wrapping the coil in copper tape and attaching that to ground. I have tried this with Strats. With a strat, which has exposed coils, you have to wrap the pup in something that won't break the coil and isolate it from the copper shield. I got the idea from Strat pups that Jackson used to make...those had cloth tape. I used silk paper or wax paper or something (don't remember), taped around that, and put the copper around that. THIS trick makes the hum quiter in a lot of positions, and changes the nature and sound of the hum, but it still hums in certain positions. It also kills a lot of that high end "sparkle" to my ears.

 

For a Tele pup, I haven't tried it, but a 'standard' thing about some Tele pups is to have string around the coil. This might make it easier, as you wouldn't have to tape the pup, and it might sound a little better because the shield is a little separated from the coil. I'm just guessing here, I haven't tried it with a Tele.

[Enmitygauged]

I am a P90 nut too and my advice keep to keep the sound is a pedal like an ISP decimator. just dial it in until the hum just off and your all good. Of course if youre playing fast chugga chugga music dial it up a little more and bam it kills everything straight after the note allowing for fast clear sticata.

 

I love my ISP its the main stay on my board if all else its the one that stays when the others get replaced.

[heymisterk]

Wow, LOTS of good information here...and lots of things to consider! What will I do? For now, probably nothing: the MIM Tele is basically my practice guitar, BUT I like the Tele tones so much that I might consider gigging with it, and that might have me finding a quieter pick-up. For whatever reason, the noise of the P-90s is, well, sweeter. That said, I love that bright "spank" of the Tele, and I don't know how I lived without one...

 

Thanks to all of you, and a happy and healthy new year to you!

[Valeriy]

In my opinion the quietest material for shielding are aluminum and brass.

I read also, Exposure company (UK) came to the similar conclusion concerning aluminum for body (case) of amplifiers.

Copper is perhaps a little worse for the pups with the magnet and coil. Although possibly copper can slightly tint the sound for the better.

And Happy New Year, guys!