Working and changing on guitars

[brad1]

So after reading all the comments about mods and keeping in mind my own comments on mods here is a issue that I have notice, but didn't know there was a fix.

 

http://www.stewmac.com/tsarchive/ts0182.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ts0182

 

I'd be interested it trying this one and think I have the parts on hand to give it a try. I just got to find where I put them.

Looks interesting Rick. And seems to be a pretty easy mod.

That is if you can solder worth a damn. Which I can not!

 

If you do it, let us know how it worked. :)

[mcgruff]

Could be a very worthwhile mod. Finding the right configuration for your guitar seems to be important.

 

'Scuse if I'm telling you something you already know but this is called a "treble bleed" circuit - just so you know what to google for :)

[RIX]

Looks interesting Rick. And seems to be a pretty easy mod.

That is if you can solder worth a damn. Which I can not!

 

If you do it, let us know how it worked. :)

 

I'm not sure how soon I'll get to it, but I will let you know when I do.

[milod]

I dunno...

 

The discussion her almost made me wonder the degree to which we're talking about "player age," not so much in years, but in picking years.

 

E.g., from roughly 1965 to 1978, I did lots of swapping, bought solid electrics with messed up electronics and "setup" cheap from a local store and rebuilt them for work or for sale.

 

After 1980, the guitar either played well and had functioning electronics or I just didn't buy it in hopes I could rebuild it into something else playable. OTOH, job changes gave less time for diddling around with stuff not all that important to me.

 

OTOH, that's also when I decided I wouldn't swap stuff because so often I regretted loss of what I swapped for something else.

 

So figure that roughly 18 years into playing, I quit the messing around phase. That doesn't mean I no longer had GAS, but rather I was more selective.

 

I don't see a darned thing wrong with the sounds I get from a Dot, for example. The action is AOK for me with my strings. Ditto everything about the thing.

 

Do I wish I had instead a real Gibbie 335? Yup, but it's outa my pay grade for what I do. If I started playing weekends or more for money, it'd be a different game and I'd do the travel to try, then have setup, a "better" guitar. Until then... I have a batch of guitars valued probably be in the $400-2,000 range, depending on how somebody might value some of the older pieces. I've played four of 'em for money at various times and some of the "new" ones work as well.

 

They don't all sound exactly alike, nor play exactly alike, but all were good enough "new" that I don't see a reason to swap electronics on a guitar that sounds good, lets me play "my" music feel and will last through a batch of gigs without worry.

 

So... Would a different nut or pup make that much difference? I dunno, but I guess that for the past 33 years I've been more interested in performing with an appropriate sorta instrument rather than a 5-10 percent difference in tone.

 

m

[Whitmore Willy]

So after reading all the comments about mods and keeping in mind my own comments on mods here is a issue that I have notice, but didn't know there was a fix.

http://www.stewmac.com/tsarchive/ts0182.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ts0182

I'd be interested it trying this one and think I have the parts on hand to give it a try. I just got to find where I put them.

Looks interesting Rick. And seems to be a pretty easy mod.

That is if you can solder worth a damn. Which I can not!

If you do it, let us know how it worked. :)

If you are considering a treble bleed you may be interested in this:

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/4712166-post14.html

 

Personally, I prefer 50's wiring. (no loss of high end while rolling back volume controls)

 

Willy

[RIX]

If you are considering a treble bleed you may be interested in this:

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/4712166-post14.html

 

Personally, I prefer 50's wiring. (no loss of high end while rolling back volume controls)

 

Willy

 

 

Thanks Willy, that is interesting I'm not sure where I go from here, but I should check to see what parts I have on hand first.

[stein]

For me, if I can't modify it, I ain't buying it. That includes even if it says "Gibson" on the headstock.

 

Modding guitars is a hobby in itself, which can be related to playing, or separate. There is no right or wrong, but for a guy like me, no guitar survives unaltered once I own it. I just have to do it.

 

The whole "modding" or improving something like a guitar- it's almost like a skill, and something freaks might develop, and lots of info gained. Even if you are not of the persuasion to want to change something, it doesn't mean that one couldn't gain from the knowledge gained by those that make changes. No more wrong than being told you should do a change and not feel the need. I don't see any of it as "wrong".

 

It might not make sense to have, say, more money in pickups or tubes than the guitar or amp. But at the same time, to me the fact a tube socket is a socket means it's MEANT to swap tubes.

 

Aren't some parts of the guitar put together with screws so I could take them apart?

[bonzoboy]

I can't understand why someone would spend hundreds of dollars on a guitar only to get it home and start to jettison the original pickups,pots etc. and basically build a new guitar.I consider this a senseless waste of money,for the money they spent on the guitar and the replacement parts thay could've most likely bought a guitar that suited them in the first place.If I'm looking for an instrument I would never leave a music store with a guitar knowing that I'll have to spend a bundle to get it the way I like it,I keep looking until I find the one that speaks to me as is.

 

I am also highly amused by people who have a knee-jerk reaction and mindset that if you buy a lower priced guitar such as an Epi or Squier etc. that a pickup,electronics,hardware etc. swap is necessary.I have yet to buy an Epi that I wasn't completely satisfied with and the only mods I've ever had to do on them was intonation,truss rod and bridge saddle adjustment. I have an Epi G-400 Custom and my daughter's boyfriend tried it and said that it was better than his own Gibson SG in every way.My daughter bought him a G-400 Custom for Christmas and now his SG has been relegated to the closet.Back in the pre 2000 days quality of some guitars mightn't have been consistant but these days that isn't an issue and the majority of guitars are built to a very high standard of quality in both materials and workmanship.The days of buying a guitar and having to replace and/or upgrade most of its components are long gone and those who still do it are really just wasting money.

 

I enjoy doing mods on guitars but satisfy that urge by restoring older wrecks of guitars for others-unless of course it's a vintage instrument,then I make it a point not to do anything invasive to it.If I were ever going to buy a guitar to hotrod,I'd buy an old used guitar that would be a real challenge for my restoration skills and leave the new guitars in the stores for others to buy.

[Oldhippie]

I can't understand why someone would spend hundreds of dollars on a guitar only to get it home and start to jettison the original pickups,pots etc. and basically build a new guitar.I consider this a senseless waste of money,for the money they spent on the guitar and the replacement parts thay could've most likely bought a guitar that suited them in the first place.If I'm looking for an instrument I would never leave a music store with a guitar knowing that I'll have to spend a bundle to get it the way I like it,I keep looking until I find the one that speaks to me as is.

 

 

That´s the point I was thinking of.

And Yes....to work on a guitar, I would buy an old one that doesn´t function anymore and working on it until it´s nice.

But I must admit....the ones who are keen on replacing everything....It is really interesting to work on a guitar and to try your skills. I accept that as well.

But for me it is the way you mentioned. I go in a shop, try a guitar and when I´m satisfied with everything (including the sound for sure) I buy it and doesn´t change something. To be honest.....I changed the nut on three of my guitars and think about a roller-bridge for my Wildkat and Riviera, because of the tremolo.

[SNick]

I love seeing all those "modified" guitars when they end up for sale. The owner usually has screwed them up and sold/lost the original parts. When they realize it sounds like nails on a chalkboard or the low rumble of an elephants stomach then call it a crap guitar it makes me laugh.

 

The sad part is they blame it on the manufacturer. THEY ARE NEVER IN THE WRONG! JMO

[SNick]

Hey Joe, You remember Leo Fender could not play either. Look what he did.

[mcgruff]

Sorry but the idea that you can't make improvements to a cheap guitar like an Epiphone is just ridiculous. Treble bleed? Mod. The "Peter Green" sound (series out of phase)? Mod. Hotter pickups? Upgrade. Better pickups? Upgrade. Locking tuners? Upgrade. Wiggle bar? Mod. Etc etc.

 

If you enjoy your guitars stock that's perfectly all right too but please don't try to rain on the parade of those who try to get the best out of them, or who have non-standard needs. This board should be the first port of call for anyone seeking advice on epiphone upgrades with information about setups, wiring, which pickups work best with which guitars, and so on.

 

Some of that might even feed back into the standard models. How do you think all the classic guitar designs came into existence in the first place?

[LongMan]

I can't understand why someone would spend hundreds of dollars on a guitar only to get it home and start to jettison the original pickups,pots etc. and basically build a new guitar.I consider this a senseless waste of money,for the money they spent on the guitar and the replacement parts thay could've most likely bought a guitar that suited them in the first place.If I'm looking for an instrument I would never leave a music store with a guitar knowing that I'll have to spend a bundle to get it the way I like it,I keep looking until I find the one that speaks to me as is.

Well, basically I agree. But sometimes it isn't that easy.

 

Let me give one recent example, my 1962 Sheraton 50th anniversary. That one spoke to me immediately, it was from the look and technical specification exactly what I expected from a Sheraton. I always loved the look and sound of that old Sheratons, but could not afford an original from the 60s. When I got the guitar it was in a weak condition. Bad setup, rattling bridge, by far not the tone I did expect.

So I gave it to a luthier for a professional fret dress and setup, and changed the bridge and nut for quality parts. All in all I spent some 150 additional bucks to free the entire potential of the guitar. Now with that modifications it is an excellent player, and the benefit justifies even more than the 150 bucks I spent. I would put up the guitar in the current condition against any stock Gibson ES model at triple the price tag of the Sheraton.

 

So why should I have left the guitar in stock condition, not using its full potential? I doubt that I will come across another guitar of a similar type that fits my need better than the Sheraton does. With Epiphone and other low budget brands the problem is that often some parts are of poor quality for the sake of the low price tag. That limits the tone and playability, and with some easy changes you can bring the guitars to a new quality level. That doesn't work with all budget guitars of course, but in case of the Sheraton it was worth the effort.

 

Of course you are right in the sense that changing parts just for the sake of changing doesn't make sense (and in some cases it doesn't even gain a benefit for tone and playability). For example I did not change the tuners or any electronic parts, they just work fine. They are subject to change the moment they fail, not earlier. However changing parts that increase tone and playability significantly makes sense from my point of view.

[Greybeard]

Well, basically I agree. But sometimes it isn't that easy.

 

Let me give one recent example, my 1962 Sheraton 50th anniversary. That one spoke to me immediately, it was from the look and technical specification exactly what I expected from a Sheraton. I always loved the look and sound of that old Sheratons, but could not afford an original from the 60s. When I got the guitar it was in a weak condition. Bad setup, rattling bridge, by far not the tone I did expect.

So I gave it to a luthier for a professional fret dress and setup, and changed the bridge and nut for quality parts. All in all I spent some 150 additional bucks to free the entire potential of the guitar. Now with that modifications it is an excellent player, and the benefit justifies even more than the 150 bucks I spent. I would put up the guitar in the current condition against any stock Gibson ES model at triple the price tag of the Sheraton.

 

So why should I have left the guitar in stock condition, not using its full potential? I doubt that I will come across another guitar of a similar type that fits my need better than the Sheraton does. With Epiphone and other low budget brands the problem is that often some parts are of poor quality for the sake of the low price tag. That limits the tone and playability, and with some easy changes you can bring the guitars to a new quality level. That doesn't work with all budget guitars of course, but in case of the Sheraton it was worth the effort.

 

Of course you are right in the sense that changing parts just for the sake of changing doesn't make sense (and in some cases it doesn't even gain a benefit for tone and playability). For example I did not change the tuners or any electronic parts, they just work fine. They are subject to change the moment they fail, not earlier. However changing parts that increase tone and playability significantly makes sense from my point of view.

 

 

After reading all of the posts on this topic, it seems that one point is being overlooked. The manufacturer of any guitar is making a lot of compromises in any design in an effort to sell to the broadest market that they can. The comment made earlier about looking for a guitar until you find the one that you like and then leaving it alone is a great example of that. You usually can't just walk into a guitar store and buy any guitar without trying a bunch of them until one strikes you in some way that the others don't. That is where the compromises come to play.

 

Not all guitars are acceptable to everyone. However, guys who know what can be done to a guitar to make it into something that they find acceptable usually don't think about when they are going to get rid of it. They think about all of the time that they are going to enjoy playing it.

 

In my youth, I had to sell the guitar I had to be able to afford the next one I wanted to buy. But now that isn't necessary to be able to get another one and I have a small collection of guitars that I enjoy. Some are absolutely stock but one is absolutely customized from one end to the other. The fact is that I ordered that customized one on line and didn't get to play it first. I found that it had a lot of really good qualities that were worth keeping but that it had other characteristics that needed to be changed to make it into something that would take a long term place in the collection as well as be enjoyable to play. The compromises in that guitar from the factory were manifested in cheaper electronic parts on a beautiful guitar body.

 

Well in looking back on every time I bought a guitar, I never bought one of them without playing at least a dozen or so before picking the one that suited me. I probably won't change that approach when going into a store that might have something I want to buy, but I won't stop buying guitars on line just because I might have to do something to it to make it acceptable to me. I understand that every one of them has a compromise to make it marketable to the masses. And I also understand that all of the people who pick one up may not like it as it is.

[Bluemans335]

For me, if I can't modify it, I ain't buying it. That includes even if it says "Gibson" on the headstock.

 

Modding guitars is a hobby in itself, which can be related to playing, or separate. There is no right or wrong, but for a guy like me, no guitar survives unaltered once I own it. I just have to do it.

 

The whole "modding" or improving something like a guitar- it's almost like a skill, and something freaks might develop, and lots of info gained. Even if you are not of the persuasion to want to change something, it doesn't mean that one couldn't gain from the knowledge gained by those that make changes. No more wrong than being told you should do a change and not feel the need. I don't see any of it as "wrong".

 

It might not make sense to have, say, more money in pickups or tubes than the guitar or amp. But at the same time, to me the fact a tube socket is a socket means it's MEANT to swap tubes.

 

Aren't some parts of the guitar put together with screws so I could take them apart?

 

+1. I always mod my guitars to some degree, some more than others. Pre-2010 Epis pretty much require PU upgrades of you want clarity, depth, and definition. On the new ones with the improved PU's, I still change pots (250K on the bridge, 1-meg on the neck), add a resistor, and rewire them for independent volume controls.

 

Guitars are made as one-size-fits-all and that doesn't suit everybody. There's nothing sacred about an electric guitar as it comes from the factory. Who said it's perfect for you? There's no guarantee that the PU's in it are a good match for the individual woods (which vary widely), or the magnets are ideal for the PU's. Look at all the styles of music we play...and the same stock guitar is perfect for everybody? I don't think so. When you work with your guitars, you understand how to adjust them to your needs, and you learn all the places where tone comes from. You're much better off being 'hands on' and taking control of your instrument by doing your own set ups, and making adjustments and mods to get your ideal tones; better that than to either learning to live with it or sell it, as many guys do. It's not an accident a guitar plays and sounds the way it does. Nor is it so mysterious that only a luthier can fathom it's inner workings. Dan Erlewine's book 'How to make your electric guitar play great' is a must for every guitarist (StewMac carries it). Most of it's simple and requires no prior experience or specialized tools. With knowledge comes power.