fake mij on ebay

[eor]

"mij" junior

 

couldn't tell you if it is malicious or uninformed, but there it is. nice bolt on neck, guy. has the bidding exceeded the actual value already?

[stein]

I don't actually KNOW this, but my understanding is that there were some cheap made in Japan Epi's made in the past.

 

Just because it is "Made in Japan" doesn't equate to high quality or desirable. There ARE some very good made in Japan Epi's, and with the change of the dollar vs the yen, modern Japanese models are pretty much only made to be the higher end. But in the 80's and early 90's, Japan was the main maker of cheaper imports before Korea and China became the source.

[Gunner]

Why do you think it's fake?

[eor]

i know that serial falls in a grey area (i didn't sift through the entire thread to see if f/j serials were solved) but i'd steer clear. it has many of the same appointments that my dumpy mid 90s special ii had; the cheap tuners, 3 screw trc, four bolt neck plate with logo and serial on it, headstock shape and such.

 

properly represented or not, it isn't an 70s-80s or elitist level instrument, and i'm at a loss to understand why a crappy old 90s junior would have so many people fighting over it, especially one from a seller who primarily sells knick knacks, and the odd lower end guitar. whole thing just seems off to me.

[stein]

i know that serial falls in a grey area (i didn't sift through the entire thread to see if f/j serials were solved) but i'd steer clear. it has many of the same appointments that my dumpy mid 90s special ii had; the cheap tuners, 3 screw trc, four bolt neck plate with logo and serial on it, headstock shape and such.

 

properly represented or not, it isn't an 70s-80s or elitist level instrument, and i'm at a loss to understand why a crappy old 90s junior would have so many people fighting over it, especially one from a seller who primarily sells knick knacks, and the odd lower end guitar. whole thing just seems off to me.

When you say 70'-80's, and "Elitist", they aren't the same thing. Generally speaking, 70's and 80's Gibby copies from Japan are considered to be poor quality, especially compared to the Elitist line.

 

I think you are mistaken in that "made in Japan" automatically means a higher quality instrument. It doesn't. And, remember also, in the beginning of the cheap imports, "Japan" WAS the source for them- similar and the same as what "China" is used for today.

 

Japan generally isn't used as a source for cheap guitars today, mainly becuase of the dollar/yen exchange rate and the fact China and Korea is the place to make them. So yes, Japanese guitars imported now are generally only of high quality. But that doesn't automatically change the past and make the cheap ones imported in the past any better than they were.

[Whitmore Willy]

I'm guessing:

J Indonesia (Jakarta ?) -- note: one Elitist model made in Japan has been reported having a J letter code

Feb. '97 Production #465.

Additionally, he says SG junior....Wrong.

It is a junior double cut.

 

If you think it is a fake, (it's not) then report it here:

http://www2.gibson.com/Support/Report-Counterfeits.aspx

 

Willy

[clarkuss]

It's not a fake but double cut juniors are much rarer and more sought after than single cut which probably explains why it has a lot of bidding activity.

[jonnyg]

When you say 70'-80's, and "Elitist", they aren't the same thing. Generally speaking, 70's and 80's Gibby copies from Japan are considered to be poor quality, especially compared to the Elitist line.

 

I think you are mistaken in that "made in Japan" automatically means a higher quality instrument. It doesn't. And, remember also, in the beginning of the cheap imports, "Japan" WAS the source for them- similar and the same as what "China" is used for today.

 

Japan generally isn't used as a source for cheap guitars today, mainly becuase of the dollar/yen exchange rate and the fact China and Korea is the place to make them. So yes, Japanese guitars imported now are generally only of high quality. But that doesn't automatically change the past and make the cheap ones imported in the past any better than they were.

I don't know if you're just referring to Epiphones or Japanese guitars in general from the 70's and 80's, but in either case I'd say you're wrong. The MIJ Epiphones from the 80's are not so very far below the Elitist series IMO, and copy guitars that were marketed in the UK under the Ibanez, Antoria or Maya brand names (actually all from the same factory) or Fernandes were some of the best copies I've ever seen. The Ibanez Artist series from around 75/76 were superb instruments. Like everything else, you got what you paid for. You could buy a cheap bolt on neck Les Paul or pay more for a fixed neck model which, at the upper end of the price range, could be very nearly as good as the guitar it was copying at half the price or less. I still own an Antoria ES175 copy (pic below) from 1975 and it stands head and shoulders above the recent Epiphone 175's I've tried for build quality, shape accuracy and finish. It also has a better burst than many Gibsons I've seen. Their biggest failings were pickups and, until Gotoh came along, machine heads. Although Chinese guitars are getting better all the time, I'd still take one of the upper end Japanese guitars from the 70's and 80's over an upper end Chinese model at the moment.

(Yes I know the pups are back to front, no the top 'G' tuner isn't bent it's the picture angle and yes I have changed the control knobs and the original wood bridge for a TOM)

[Red 333]

I don't know if you're just referring to Epiphones or Japanese guitars in general from the 70's and 80's, but in either case I'd say you're wrong. The MIJ Epiphones from the 80's are not so very far below the Elitist series IMO, and copy guitars that were marketed in the UK under the Ibanez, Antoria or Maya brand names (actually all from the same factory) or Fernandes were some of the best copies I've ever seen. The Ibanez Artist series from around 75/76 were superb instruments. Like everything else, you got what you paid for. You could buy a cheap bolt on neck Les Paul or pay more for a fixed neck model which, at the upper end of the price range, could be very nearly as good as the guitar it was copying at half the price or less. I still own an Antoria ES175 copy (pic below) from 1975 and it stands head and shoulders above the recent Epiphone 175's I've tried for build quality, shape accuracy and finish. It also has a better burst than many Gibsons I've seen. Their biggest failings were pickups and, until Gotoh came along, machine heads. Although Chinese guitars are getting better all the time, I'd still take one of the upper end Japanese guitars from the 70's and 80's over an upper end Chinese model at the moment.

 

 

+1.

 

Great looking guitar!

 

Red 333

[stein]

I don't know if you're just referring to Epiphones or Japanese guitars in general from the 70's and 80's, but in either case I'd say you're wrong. The MIJ Epiphones from the 80's are not so very far below the Elitist series IMO, and copy guitars that were marketed in the UK under the Ibanez, Antoria or Maya brand names (actually all from the same factory) or Fernandes were some of the best copies I've ever seen. The Ibanez Artist series from around 75/76 were superb instruments. Like everything else, you got what you paid for. You could buy a cheap bolt on neck Les Paul or pay more for a fixed neck model which, at the upper end of the price range, could be very nearly as good as the guitar it was copying at half the price or less. I still own an Antoria ES175 copy (pic below) from 1975 and it stands head and shoulders above the recent Epiphone 175's I've tried for build quality, shape accuracy and finish. It also has a better burst than many Gibsons I've seen. Their biggest failings were pickups and, until Gotoh came along, machine heads. Although Chinese guitars are getting better all the time, I'd still take one of the upper end Japanese guitars from the 70's and 80's over an upper end Chinese model at the moment.

(Yes I know the pups are back to front, no the top 'G' tuner isn't bent it's the picture angle and yes I have changed the control knobs and the original wood bridge for a TOM)

Perhaps my bad for not being more clear, but then again it makes for some good discussion.

 

There IS a distinction between cheap and quality, that isn't based on "Japan". Indeed, the guitar in question on the EBAY of the OP is a "cheap" one, although I don't know if it is Japanese or not. Anyway, Fact of the matter is that MOST imports from Japan in the 70's and 80's were of the cheaper variety- and meant that way.

 

Personally, I think when it comes to the higher quality ones, there is still more variables, and not all are created equal. On one hand, sure, you can compare some of them to what was being produced by Gibby in the 70's, and they were better. In that case, a 70's copy is surely on par or better than a 70's Gibby. But they could still be a far cry from a 60's or 50's Gibby.

 

And there is yet a smaller group that is just a high degree of quality regardless of what you compare them too.

 

But I think we have a new question, maybe we can answer maybe not, just for kicks: How does the current Elitist line compare to the past ones? Or, how about the current "high end" Japanese made compare to the older "high end" ones?

 

I don't pretend to know or think I'm right, but my personal impression is that they may be better. I felt the couple Scofield JSM-100's were a cut above the origonals, And the few Elitist models I have tried I felt were a cut above, well, most things. Both types of "High end" Japanese Gibby-style were top notch in many areas, even if not completely capturing the vibe and quirks of vintage Gibby's.

[vaxxine]

Speaking of Japanese Epiphones, here's one on eBay right now - a nice Emperor F.

 

Terada-made Emperor F

[wellercasino]

Speaking of Japanese Epiphones, here's one on eBay right now - a nice Emperor F.

 

Terada-made Emperor F

It's actually a matsumoku. I did message him to point out his mistake but he has not responded.