Mills Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I recently purchased a 2006 dot reissue and am painfully coming to the realization that this guitar is too sensitive to play. I've owned the instrument about 3 months now. It has been re-strung and "set up" once by a local shop. Later, I had a legitimate, full set-up performed by a highly regarded local professional. The frets were leveled and crowned, fingerboard cleaned, nut filed, tuning keys inspected and tightened, pickup and pole height set, neck, bridge saddles, stop bar adjusted, intonation set. I had all the pots, switch and jack replaced (one bad pot). The guy who did the work praised the guitar for its playability and tone, said I found a good one, and for a couple weeks I agreed. Now, the guitar is showing the same inability to be tuned, stay in tune, or maintain a tone when the neck is touched. I have tried to adjust my fretting hand to be more light-fingered, but sometimes when grabbing a difficult or new chord I hear the sharp results of a too-strong grip. Last night when tuning during practice I swear I could hear pitch variation from the low E just from plucking. I use a cheap clip-on tuner, a tuning app on the ipad, and a high E tuning fork and my ear. I tune the guitar and then tune based on how a few chords sound, and I do that over and over. I think I will take it back to my guy and see if there's anything amiss since his set-up, but I think that's a long shot. I know this particular instrument can be difficult, but also know that with the proper set-up should be rock solid. It's frustrating to say the least, so much so that I'm considering selling the instrument. Any comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl51 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Just curious what other guitars that you own? In other words are you having the same problem with any other guitars or just the 335? jim in Maine currently working in Denver,Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 Just curious what other guitars that you own? In other words are you having the same problem with any other guitars or just the 335? jim in Maine currently working in Denver,Colorado I have owned two Fenders, a Tele and a Strat, two other Gibsons, an SG and a LPJ and a number of acoustic instruments. Of those only the Tele gave me tuning probs and only a sharping G which I was able to fix with a good nut. I think I could chop wood with the Strat and stay in tune. I walk by this 335 and it needs tuning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 If a guitar that expensive is having prolems maybe you just got a lemon. I have a brand new one and love it. Yeah I thought the same thing until I had my guy set it up. I was better for about 2 wks and he couldn't quit praising the guitar. I think I'll take it back and have the nut replaced, grasping at straws now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 What Gauge strings are you using? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 What Gauge strings are you using? Ian 10s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 10s Well, they should be all right, this really is a mystery. why don't you take it back to the guitar tech and show him what's happened, may be he can shed a little more light on the problem. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 How many strings won't stay in tune? I have had problems with the G on a lot of guitars. Have you tried Big Bendz Nut Sauce? That G is a problem, but not the only one. I wish I could point to one or particular strings, and without some kind of legit test I cannot. The most baffling string is low E. I swear I can hear the string pitch wavering (out of the ordinary) when it's plucked, and not plucked hard mind you. Also, when I first acquired the guitar I had pinging on multiple strings. I used graphite and that helped some and then later my guy filed a bit on the nut and put some lube on it. That seemed to alleviate the pinging, but now even that is back (yes, on the G). So that's why I'm thinking of having the nut replaced. I do have a problem with frets 1 and 2. They seem to be higher than what I'm used to in that I can grab a chord there and squeeze it sharp. That what I meant by my reference to adjusting my fretting hand pressure. Again, that's just part of my concern, one that I'd hoped would be resolved with the fret work I had done. Apparently a previous owner had the frets "leveled" using the popular incorrect method of knocking off the top, making the frets flat. My guy re-crowned the frets and now they have a nice round top, much nicer feel and I would expect better intonation, and it is better, but it's not perfect. The pitch difference up the neck is noticeable, not so much on single strings or notes than chords. So next week I'll take it back to his shop and see if he can do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanC Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I recently purchased a 2006 dot reissue and am painfully coming to the realization that this guitar is too sensitive to play. I've owned the instrument about 3 months now. It has been re-strung and "set up" once by a local shop. Later, I had a legitimate, full set-up performed by a highly regarded local professional. The frets were leveled and crowned, fingerboard cleaned, nut filed, tuning keys inspected and tightened, pickup and pole height set, neck, bridge saddles, stop bar adjusted, intonation set. I had all the pots, switch and jack replaced (one bad pot). The guy who did the work praised the guitar for its playability and tone, said I found a good one, and for a couple weeks I agreed. Now, the guitar is showing the same inability to be tuned, stay in tune, or maintain a tone when the neck is touched. I have tried to adjust my fretting hand to be more light-fingered, but sometimes when grabbing a difficult or new chord I hear the sharp results of a too-strong grip. Last night when tuning during practice I swear I could hear pitch variation from the low E just from plucking. I use a cheap clip-on tuner, a tuning app on the ipad, and a high E tuning fork and my ear. I tune the guitar and then tune based on how a few chords sound, and I do that over and over. I think I will take it back to my guy and see if there's anything amiss since his set-up, but I think that's a long shot. I know this particular instrument can be difficult, but also know that with the proper set-up should be rock solid. It's frustrating to say the least, so much so that I'm considering selling the instrument. Any comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. This probably won't be that helpful but here I go. Guitars can be like this and I've had a few that have been terrible but I've persevered. Some take awhile for the neck to set and they move around a bit. Firstly you need a really good tech and whilst some techs are supposed to be 'professionals' they do a dreadful job. Once you have a genuinely good tech then the guitar should be properly set up by the tech but to the specifications that suit your style. Sometime the guitar may need 2 or 3 set ups in the first year and the same in the second year if the guitar is played a lot. But eventually the guitar will settle and it will then be more like what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 This probably won't be that helpful but here I go. Guitars can be like this and I've had a few that have been terrible but I've persevered. Some take awhile for the neck to set and they move around a bit. Firstly you need a really good tech and whilst some techs are supposed to be 'professionals' they do a dreadful job. Once you have a genuinely good tech then the guitar should be properly set up by the tech but to the specifications that suit your style. Sometime the guitar may need 2 or 3 set ups in the first year and the same in the second year if the guitar is played a lot. But eventually the guitar will settle and it will then be more like what you want. Thanks for your response Alan. I would hope that this instrument has done all the settling and setting in that it's going to do. It is a 2006 model and although I do not know its history, I don't think it was a case potato. The repair tech seems to know his trade. I played a few guitars in his shop before we decided on a set up for mine. He made suggestions and told me in detail what he would do to the frets and how he would do the set up, cleaning, neck relief, pick up adjustment, etc. Compare that to the music store set-up and it' s night and day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 You also have weather changes working against you at the moment. Maybe have the guitar tech give you a quick tutorial on what he's doing as far as truss rod adjustment; my Lucille has been giving me some grief recently with it going from so dry inside of the house to "normal" humidity levels and warmer temperatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 You also have weather changes working against you at the moment. Maybe have the guitar tech give you a quick tutorial on what he's doing as far as truss rod adjustment; my Lucille has been giving me some grief recently with it going from so dry inside of the house to "normal" humidity levels and warmer temperatures. Good points. He examined the neck and found it had little to no relief, and fixed that during setup, correcting the action to my specs at the bridge. We're starting to see some humidity here too. It will be increasing all summer. I don't know what I expect. I know guitars are like women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Mills, you sound well knowledged....I'm throwing in my 2 cents worth (which isn't exactly much, but I'll try). I would pay attention to the truss rod (I assume your machine heads/tuners are alright). Maybe a quick test, but try to do a quick tune up and intonation on your ES-335. When your guitar goes out of tune on those strings, retune the string and check at the 12th to see if the intonation is off, if it is then I would suspect the truss rod being a possible issue, especially if it happens so sudden. But anyways, thats my thoughts....I could be wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 Mills, you sound well knowledged....I'm throwing in my 2 cents worth (which isn't exactly much, but I'll try). I would pay attention to the truss rod (I assume your machine heads/tuners are alright). Maybe a quick test, but try to do a quick tune up and intonation on your ES-335. When your guitar goes out of tune on those strings, retune the string and check at the 12th to see if the intonation is off, if it is then I would suspect the truss rod being a possible issue, especially if it happens so sudden. But anyways, thats my thoughts....I could be wrong.... Thanks for the comments. I assure you my knowledge is insufficient for the task at hand. That's why I've come here for expert advice! I too wonder about the truss rod/neck contribution to this problem. It seems to me that the neck moves much too easily with normal playing pressure. It's almost like, hey, who needs a whammy bar, right? Compared to the Fender necks I've played this neck is flexible, and that leads me to question the tension applied by the truss rod, or lack of tension. It's something else I intend to ask my technician. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brantobrien Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Showing up late to the party here, but thought I would chime in as well. This may seem almost silly, but I had a stable guitar start doing the same thing awhile ago. I changed from my normal brand of strings to a higher end brand and immediately started having problems. The guitar on the low E wouldn't hold pitch and my intonation would considerably move at the 12th fret from perfect to flat. After waiting for a week for things to calm down I took them off and went back to my normal strings. Everything settled down. What string brand are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Thanks for the comments. I assure you my knowledge is insufficient for the task at hand. That's why I've come here for expert advice! I too wonder about the truss rod/neck contribution to this problem. It seems to me that the neck moves much too easily with normal playing pressure. It's almost like, hey, who needs a whammy bar, right? Compared to the Fender necks I've played this neck is flexible, and that leads me to question the tension applied by the truss rod, or lack of tension. It's something else I intend to ask my technician. Thanks again. Trust me it's not too hard. Since you have an ES-355 the intonation is easy to setup (intonation you are not familiar with the term, is ensuring that the pitch at the 12th where the next octave begins is not off), just YouTube guitar intonation, you'll know how to perform this setup in no time, plus it's a great wait to save some dough.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Sounds like it's just going to take a little more work to get the nut right and get the thing as close to perfect as it can be. I think your tech is getting there. It may take a few setups to get it exactly right. You may have to adjust your chording technique for the new guitar if it hangs or sits in a different position than you're used to. So that you're not pulling on the neck when you go to grab that weird chord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonful Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 It is not that unusual for an ES-335 neck to flex when you pull on it. In fact some people use this as an effect. I think I've heard it called neck vibrato. Something you might want to check out is whether or not your bridge is leaning forward or backward. I had this on one of by 335's. It can be caused by having too much downward pressure behind the bridge - like a tail piece set too low. Over time, the stock bridge studs will start to bend. The fix is easy enough. Check out the Maple Flame mod for more information on the fix. Have your guitar tech give you their opinion. It was impossible to get that guitar in tune and keep it there. Regarding the frets - I haven't had an issue with the frets on a 335, but I sold a Custom ES-137 because I couldn't get the hang of the really high frets. Probably would have been smarter to have them lowered, because otherwise it was a very nice guitar. I had just started playing again after taking 30 years off so I certainly didn't have the skills to cope with this. All I knew was chords were going out of tune on a regular basis. 335's can be a bit touchy on a good day, but as someone else already pointed out, they do tend to settle down a lot after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Showing up late to the party here, but thought I would chime in as well. This may seem almost silly, but I had a stable guitar start doing the same thing awhile ago. I changed from my normal brand of strings to a higher end brand and immediately started having problems. The guitar on the low E wouldn't hold pitch and my intonation would considerably move at the 12th fret from perfect to flat. After waiting for a week for things to calm down I took them off and went back to my normal strings. Everything settled down. What string brand are you using? I am using a mixed set, light top,regular bottom D'Addario EXL125 9-11-16-26-36-46. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Sounds like it's just going to take a little more work to get the nut right and get the thing as close to perfect as it can be. I think your tech is getting there. It may take a few setups to get it exactly right. You may have to adjust your chording technique for the new guitar if it hangs or sits in a different position than you're used to. So that you're not pulling on the neck when you go to grab that weird chord. Thanks, I think I'm getting there too. By the way, I'm in Blountville. Howdy neighbor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 It is not that unusual for an ES-335 neck to flex when you pull on it. In fact some people use this as an effect. I think I've heard it called neck vibrato. Something you might want to check out is whether or not your bridge is leaning forward or backward. I had this on one of by 335's. It can be caused by having too much downward pressure behind the bridge - like a tail piece set too low. Over time, the stock bridge studs will start to bend. The fix is easy enough. Check out the Maple Flame mod for more information on the fix. Have your guitar tech give you their opinion. It was impossible to get that guitar in tune and keep it there. Regarding the frets - I haven't had an issue with the frets on a 335, but I sold a Custom ES-137 because I couldn't get the hang of the really high frets. Probably would have been smarter to have them lowered, because otherwise it was a very nice guitar. I had just started playing again after taking 30 years off so I certainly didn't have the skills to cope with this. All I knew was chords were going out of tune on a regular basis. 335's can be a bit touchy on a good day, but as someone else already pointed out, they do tend to settle down a lot after a while. Thanks. My tech noticed the low tailpiece and adjusted it during the set-up, but I think the bridge looks ok, if you can tell by looking. I also have just started playing again after a number of years so I'm shaking off rust. I was a guitarist in another life long ago and about 3000 miles away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Thanks, I think I'm getting there too. By the way, I'm in Blountville. Howdy neighbor! Hey - I didn't notice that!! [thumbup] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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