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hello all..gibson custom shop?

#21 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 12:48 PM

View Postkolhauszer, on 05 December 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

...I was bombed like hiroshima when i read that she is NOT a true custom?...
Im assuming now that there are differences between a custom and one made by custom shop?...

Don't confuse 'Les Paul Custom' with 'Custom Shop Les Paul'...

Without going too much into history - nor semantics - the Les Paul Standard and Les Paul Custom were two models of guitar introduced in '52 and '54 respectively. They are quite similar instruments differing in a few relatively minor details. The LP Custom was always the higher-price instrument because it had extra 'bling' in comparison to the other.

The Custom Shop is where some models of LP are crafted - as opposed to the regular 'USA-Line' who handle the vast bulk of LP production. There should be a slightly higher attention to detail paid by the luthiers / craftsmen & craftswomen in the CS and these instruments should be built with slightly more 'finesse' or, if you like, individuality. All the re-issues and Collectors Choice instruments are made by the CS - as, slightly confusingly, are the current Les Paul Custom guitars themselves.

Almost all Standards are made on the USA-line. The Standard in your OP was built by the CS - probably because it was part of a small-run series. It might well be a slightly better-built Standard than the regular USA-line Standard in the small details. Whether or not it plays and sounds better than a regular USA Standard is open to conjecture. As a CS instrument it probably does have a claim to be of intrinsically 'more value' than a USA-line guitar but this is only important to SOME folks.

Probably clear as mud, now, though?...

Pip.
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#22 User is offline   NighthawkChris 

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 12:55 PM

View PostAllenjason95, on 05 December 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

Yeah but you paid 5,500 for a Custom. I mean "cost doesn't warrant the value of the guitar"? I paid $2,200 for my Custom and it looked basically brand new when I got it.

Besides, with almost any new Gibson LP it's going to drop a huge amount after you buy it if you buy it new. If you're looking for something that "warrants the value of the guitar" 4K+ Gibson LP sure aren't it because the minute you take possession it depreciates a large amount.

You paid 5.5K for a Custom, good luck getting 3K back for it.


Yup, new guitars depreciate immensely after purchase - no mystery there. I looked at used '68 RI LP Customs in Triburst, and they were going around $3k give or take used. What I was getting at with what you quoted me saying is that no way would I pay what I paid for my LP Custom if it were being purchased used... Value not there. I debated buying used for a few months before deciding to take advantage of the Gear Card special going on this year. With new guitar, you have warranty FWIW, 45-day return period at GC, 5% reward points, and 0% for 48-months on top of discounts on gear practically for life every time I barter with them over prices on pickups, gear, etc. because I mention how much I buy form them over the years. Whatever on this. Bottom line is if you wanted my guitar, you have to take your chances on the used market and pay all up front, or go to GC. Nowhere was this guitar available that I could find brand new for a better price that I could run across. And to boot, availability was primarily only at GC... I know Musician's Friend sold the same LP Custom I bought some time ago, and it was for same MSRP as GC I believe as you are not getting deal from this place either. Glad your LP Custom used works for you. Mine is doing fine thank you.
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#23 User is offline   NighthawkChris 

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:25 PM

View Postpippy, on 05 December 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

Don't confuse 'Les Paul Custom' with 'Custom Shop Les Paul'...

Without going too much into history - nor semantics - the Les Paul Standard and Les Paul Custom were two models of guitar introduced in '52 and '54 respectively. They are quite similar instruments differing in a few relatively minor details. The LP Custom was always the higher-price instrument because it had extra 'bling' in comparison to the other.

The Custom Shop is where some models of LP are crafted - as opposed to the regular 'USA-Line' who handle the vast bulk of LP production. There should be a slightly higher attention to detail paid by the luthiers / craftsmen & craftswomen in the CS and these instruments should be built with slightly more 'finesse' or, if you like, individuality. All the re-issues and Collectors Choice instruments are made by the CS - as, slightly confusingly, are the current Les Paul Custom guitars themselves.

Almost all Standards are made on the USA-line. The Standard in your OP was built by the CS - probably because it was part of a small-run series. It might well be a slightly better-built Standard than the regular USA-line Standard in the small details. Whether or not it plays and sounds better than a regular USA Standard is open to conjecture. As a CS instrument it probably does have a claim to be of intrinsically 'more value' than a USA-line guitar but this is only important to SOME folks.

Probably clear as mud, now, though?...

Pip.


Yes, good point. Well, being that I paid $5.5k, it is a Custom Shop Les Paul Custom then. A lot of custom going on there...
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#24 User is offline   Allenjason95 

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:30 PM

View PostNighthawkChris, on 05 December 2017 - 12:55 PM, said:

Yup, new guitars depreciate immensely after purchase - no mystery there. I looked at used '68 RI LP Customs in Triburst, and they were going around $3k give or take used. What I was getting at with what you quoted me saying is that no way would I pay what I paid for my LP Custom if it were being purchased used... Value not there. I debated buying used for a few months before deciding to take advantage of the Gear Card special going on this year. With new guitar, you have warranty FWIW, 45-day return period at GC, 5% reward points, and 0% for 48-months on top of discounts on gear practically for life every time I barter with them over prices on pickups, gear, etc. because I mention how much I buy form them over the years. Whatever on this. Bottom line is if you wanted my guitar, you have to take your chances on the used market and pay all up front, or go to GC. Nowhere was this guitar available that I could find brand new for a better price that I could run across. And to boot, availability was primarily only at GC... I know Musician's Friend sold the same LP Custom I bought some time ago, and it was for same MSRP as GC I believe as you are not getting deal from this place either. Glad your LP Custom used works for you. Mine is doing fine thank you.


You’re the one who brought up not “value not warranting price”.
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#25 User is offline   Farnsbarns 

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:32 PM

Many would argue that this is a step up from a "custom".

Here's how it works. The Les Paul Custom is a model, made (see note below) in the same factory as all Gibson USA Les Pauls.

The custom shop, formally Gibson art and historic division, was set up (1993? Pip?) in theory, to make custom orders and special runs with the best wood available. They also make reissues and collectors choice (reissue which copy an actual, specific guitar) Which are considered by many to be the best Gibson Les Pauls today. They have 50s correct appointments which some like, the period correct parts have generally been improved upon in terms of practicality and design but as rct is won't to say, guitarists are funny.

Note: in the last few years Gibson started building the Les Paul Custom model in the custom shop but for many decades they were a Gibson USA model.

Gibson have a long history of using obtuse nomenclature which contradicts itself and uses the same words to describe completely different things in different lines. For example, only Gibson would have a "traditional" Les Paul Traditional and a high performance Les Paul Traditional. They've completely muddied the water on what traditional means in the line up.
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#26 User is offline   NighthawkChris 

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:43 PM

View PostAllenjason95, on 05 December 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

You're the one who brought up not "value not warranting price".


Whatever, I am not into arguing this. I clearly explained my point and elaborated on the quote you are calling me out on. If you want to be confrontational as this is the tone you seem to be setting, then I will back down and let you get your last word if it means so much to you. You obviously see it in a different light, so no use in wasting my breath. At least the OP knows what a new Custom Shop LP Custom costs, what you get for a price point in USD.
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#27 User is offline   Allenjason95 

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:57 PM

View PostNighthawkChris, on 05 December 2017 - 01:43 PM, said:

Whatever, I am not into arguing this. I clearly explained my point and elaborated on the quote you are calling me out on. If you want to be confrontational as this is the tone you seem to be setting, then I will back down and let you get your last word if it means so much to you. You obviously see it in a different light, so no use in wasting my breath. At least the OP knows what a new Custom Shop LP Custom costs, what you get for a price point in USD.


You brought up the “value warranting the cost” and said you paid 5.5k for a Custom.

Whether the “value warrants cost” is highly subjective. Unless I got a smoking deal I would never buy a new LP because there are decades of cheap used (relative to the cost of buying new) ones to choose from and a new one is just going to become “used” the second you open the box or take possession of it.

There are people out there that scoff at the idea of buying a Gibson LP period because you can buy a LP style guitar for a few hundred bucks that probably plays and sounds equal to a Gibson.

Just saying whether something is “worth it”, especially a Gibson guitar, is totally subjective. You wouldn’t pay $4,200 for a “Standard”, I wouldn’t either. But I also wouldn’t 5.5k for a Custom or hundreds of thousands for a 1960 Burst (unless I could turn around and flip it for more).

You say a new LP Custom has a warranty and zero interest.....yeah, but you’re paying $2,000-3,000 more than the cost of a used one. If you have decent credit you can get cards with zero interest transfer offers.

I’m just pointing out that the guy might think that “standard” does warrant the cost just like you think your Custom warranted paying 5.5k for.
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#28 User is offline   NighthawkChris 

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:19 PM

View PostAllenjason95, on 05 December 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

You brought up the “value warranting the cost” and said you paid 5.5k for a Custom.

Whether the “value warrants cost” is highly subjective. Unless I got a smoking deal I would never buy a new LP because there are decades of cheap used (relative to the cost of buying new) ones to choose from and a new one is just going to become “used” the second you open the box or take possession of it.

There are people out there that scoff at the idea of buying a Gibson LP period because you can buy a LP style guitar for a few hundred bucks that probably plays and sounds equal to a Gibson.

Just saying whether something is “worth it”, especially a Gibson guitar, is totally subjective. You wouldn’t pay $4,200 for a “Standard”, I wouldn’t either. But I also wouldn’t 5.5k for a Custom or hundreds of thousands for a 1960 Burst (unless I could turn around and flip it for more).

You say a new LP Custom has a warranty and zero interest.....yeah, but you’re paying $2,000-3,000 more than the cost of a used one. If you have decent credit you can get cards with zero interest transfer offers.

I’m just pointing out that the guy might think that “standard” does warrant the cost just like you think your Custom warranted paying 5.5k for.


Point taken. I respect your outlook on the situation and believe that you have many valid points as well.

Only thing is that I can't get any 0% credit line for 48-months. Especially if I am buying used, who is going to accept a credit card from me? I could possibly use PayPal to charge up that 0% credit card if I buy via eBay or Reverb - my only options to find the guitar I wanted - but 48-months! I am unaware of a credit card that allows me to take advantage of "same as cash" for that long for some arbitrary purposes. I pay ~$114 a month for my guitar for 48 times (months). I felt that this financing promotion was something to take advantage of.
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#29 User is offline   Allenjason95 

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:46 PM

View PostNighthawkChris, on 05 December 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

Point taken. I respect your outlook on the situation and believe that you have many valid points as well.

Only thing is that I can't get any 0% credit line for 48-months. Especially if I am buying used, who is going to accept a credit card from me? I could possibly use PayPal to charge up that 0% credit card if I buy via eBay or Reverb - my only options to find the guitar I wanted - but 48-months! I am unaware of a credit card that allows me to take advantage of "same as cash" for that long for some arbitrary purposes. I pay ~$114 a month for my guitar for 48 times (months). I felt that this financing promotion was something to take advantage of.


What I do is buy something with one card then transfer it to another. I paid off a car loan that way once and if I ever make a big purchase on credit that’s what I do.. I didn’t pay anything in interest. Sometimes they have transfer fees but not always and they usually aren’t much.

If you have good credit it’s pretty easy to avoid paying much interest on CC, unless you just totally abuse them.
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#30 User is offline   Allenjason95 

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:49 PM

View PostNighthawkChris, on 05 December 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

Point taken. I respect your outlook on the situation and believe that you have many valid points as well.

Only thing is that I can't get any 0% credit line for 48-months. Especially if I am buying used, who is going to accept a credit card from me? I could possibly use PayPal to charge up that 0% credit card if I buy via eBay or Reverb - my only options to find the guitar I wanted - but 48-months! I am unaware of a credit card that allows me to take advantage of "same as cash" for that long for some arbitrary purposes. I pay ~$114 a month for my guitar for 48 times (months). I felt that this financing promotion was something to take advantage of.


And I’m not knocking you or your guitar, if you never plan on selling it’s value doesn’t matter much. I bought my dad a LP Classic new in 1994 and I’m sure I overpaid (I actually don’t remember what it cost) but I got it after he died and I’m never going to sell it so what I paid or what it’s currently worth is irrelevant.
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#31 User is offline   NighthawkChris 

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:05 PM

Allen, you're all good man. I value your insight.
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#32 User is online   MichaelT 

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:27 PM

I've never bought a guitar for an investment or to flip it. I always buy to play them but that's just me. That being said, I do have a few guitars appraised at much more than I paid for them but I'll never sell them. I've debated getting a Gibson Custom Shop guitar, one of the R series. It's a lot of money and I'd need to save for a few months to get one. I don't use credit cards, so it would be debit card or cash. It would be one I'd play and loved like my others. I wouldn't really care if it dropped to half its value as long as I loved to play it. There's other things that make a MUCH better rate of return than most guitars.
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#33 User is offline   Allenjason95 

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 11:39 PM

View PostNighthawkChris, on 05 December 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

Allen, you're all good man. I value your insight.


Thanks. Sorry if I came off douchy. Not my intention.
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