No set up on new guitars

[tvyellow]

Being new at guitar, I have a question for the veteran players out there. When did it become acceptable for shops to take new guitars straight from the cardboard box out onto the showroom floor without so much as a peek at the action or the intonation?

I know of one major chain in Canada that sold me, an admitted newbie, an acoustic with what I later found out was a bowed neck and awful action. Happily, they did let me return the thing after a musician had seen what I'd been told -but it was not in sellable condition and shouldn't have made it on the floor according to my friend. When I went back to return it, I looked at another brand, several hundred dollars more expensive, and brought the axe up to the counter. They wouldn't so much as look at it and told me that there'd be a two week wait to get it set up....I left the $600 guitar in the "capable" hands of the 4 clerks behind the counter and walked away. Contrast that with the results I had at another shop in my city who wanted" my business. The salesguy actually played the thing and adjusted the neck, assuring me, a guy who knew nothing about guitars, that it was a good buy. Needless to say, that same salesclerk later sold me my EPI LP Classic Gold Top, he made the effort to get one from the storeroom that hadn't been played by the entire city, made all the adjustments for me, PLAYED IT and sold me a guitar that, according to the musician friend, plays as well as any Gibson.

[Blueshound9]

When did it become acceptable for shops to take new guitars straight from the cardboard box out onto the showroom floor without so much as a peek at the action or the intonation?

Unfortunately, At least in Philadelphia,Pa it seems to be the norm. When I go to one of the large chain stores that everyone knows, and pick up a guitar it is almost always unplayable. They just don't bother to set them up because(and this is just my opinion) they want to sell you a set up on top of the guitar. Of course it probably also has something to do with the fact that the sales clerks in the large chain stores don't get paid squat so why should they care?

[cabeza]

When I started playing in the late 80's (yikes!), I'd walk into any guitar shop, whether it was a chain store or mom-pop situation, and EVERY guitar was set-up and ready to play. Nowadays, especially in the bigger chains, the peeps working in these place just don't care. It seems 9 out of every 10 axes hanging on the walls haven't been set-up, or even tuned! On top of this, when u do ask for a fix, you get eyes rolling up and nasty comments. It's like these lazy f**ks just wanna' stand behind a counter and talk about last nights gig all day. My advice is, when buying a new guitar, always ask for a price break, pointing out the lack of a decent set-up to the salesperson, or, even better, a store manager. Usually they're at least a little embarrased and will agree to one. I live in NYC, and the only shop that takes care of you right seems to be Main Drag in Brooklyn. Mazotti's is very nice as well. I just can't afford anything in there.

[tvyellow]

The fact that there were 4 uniformed sales clerks standing around doing nothing while a potential sale, I mean I had the guitar at the counter and they knew I had the cash because of the refund, walks out the door...I wonder if the chains' owners know how often this happens? It's not busy every hour of every shift, why aren't staff being taught how to set up their stock and told to work on the merchaindise? These are musical instruments, not detergent. If you have a hundred guitars on the floor and 4 or 5 clerks sitting around, those clerks, if trained, can make short work of the task over a day or two. Interesting how those same chains, and their supporters, cry about "customer service" when we buy from the big US internet chains. Why shouldn't we? If we can get a better price and there's a decent return policy, then why bother supporting the detergent sellers? As for supporting the smaller stores before they disappear, then they should make sure that the gear's ready to play. I know of one shop, in Toronto, that sets up all of its' guitars before they hit the floor, other than that? It's kinda like a restaurant giving us a bag of powdered soup and pointing us to the kettle...

[Nickblues1]

I think it's more policy not to do a setup for free. Want it set up? Then you have to pay for it.

 

Just one of those profit centers that the bean counters look at to make up for lost revenue on heavily marked down or used guitars. Personally, as a business owner, I can understand it.

 

Sales clerks are just that - clerks, not Luthiers.

 

A good Luthiers time is worth the cost of admission for a setup. Last time I had my Strat setup, my Luthier called me and we talked for 20 minutes on how I liked everything setup. Worth the 40 bucks just to know that the man's on top of the game.

[garyelcrrt1281733995]

It started when bean counters took over manufacturing/marketing and became "normal" when stores found they could hire (at a lower salary - um, commission structure) and allow OJT to train sales staff in "how to BE helpful vs. how to SOUND helpful". Now its entrenched policy almost everywhere, and all because not enough people complained about the lack of knowledgeable, helpful sales staff.

[tvyellow]

Interesting how I can go out and buy a new car today and know that the brakes will work or that the switches will do what they're supposed to do on my new blender! lol

Just an observation from someone new to the world of guitars....

[jairic]

Guitar stores are veering dangerously off the customer service path. I'd happily have them shed the usually attractive dame at the door greeting people (GC) to have the guitars set up properly. The other day at GC I played an Epi Zakk Wylde bullseye and one knob was pushed back into the body and another was broken off completely. It still had the same price tag as the others on it. You'd think that when a guitar suffers that sort of damage it would be repaired or the price would drop.

[daneman]

You probably wouldn't want the sales staff to set up your guitar,It would probably be worse than out of the box!

Just my opinion.D

[brad1]

Nick, you can get a set up out there for only 40 bucks? Man, out here in Northern Cal it's more like $60-$80!

[BENT E]

It's all about the bottom line anymore. They figure advertising, and endorsement is all that's reguired to make the deal. Let's face it, how many people actually stick with playing the guitar after they realize they might not be ready for the bigtime after a couple of week's of agonizing practice.

 

I hate going into music store's, the geek's that work at the large retailer's are usually mindless pimple head's. I generaly know what I'm looking for, and have researched the product a bit more than some twit pushing it because so and so use's it.

 

I had worked for samash some thirty year's ago, and I can just imagine the old man is spinning in his grave at what his son's have done to the business. Yes, they are huge, but the service smell's up the place. I refuse to enter through the door of one of their store's.

 

On the subject of setup's, the last large retailer that had a luthier is the store was MARS. Most want to ship it out to some one you'll never meet. Setup's are a indivdual thing, like getting a suit tailored to your shape. It's best that a guitar player learn how to work on his own equipment. It's really not that involved, a few simple tool's and a reasonable amount of knowledge goes a long way. If you get a book by a Dan Erlewine or to that degree, they will have you doing a decent setup in a heartbeat. One just has to play around, and gain some confidense working on your axe. It's not Rocket Science!

 

One has to realize also that most of these guitars are being shipped from the otherside of the planet with a very generic setup. They are playable usually, and not much more, and hung on the wall for sale. I've never gotten a guitar, either from a store or mail order that didn't need a good tweaking. That's why most manufactures give manual's with allen wrench's. I know I'm rambling here, but a setup will do wonderful thing's for your playing enjoymento:)

[Lerxst1281733995]

Just to add my 2 cents in.. I too remember a day when the guitars at your local guitar shops had a generally good set-up right off the peg, and if you didn't like it, they would be happy to do a set-up for you at no charge.. And I'm not talking about the "golden years", either.. I'm only 39.. Nowadays, the guitars aren't even in TUNE, let alone set up, and if you have the audacity to ask them for a cord so you can plug one in, they roll their eyes like you're being a PEST to them... God forbid you should interrupt their conversation!

 

I wonder if they think they're getting paid to show up and look cool... Because otherwise, they're useless! Most of those scrubs couldn't fix a SANDWICH, let alone a guitar... And I love it when one of them walks up to me while I'm checking out a guitar and starts offering me "advice" on guitar choices... Like I came in the store without a CLUE about what I wanted....

 

GC SCRUB: "Yeah, that guitar's nice, but ya know what ya REALLY want is a Zakk Wylde Les Paul!"

 

Me: "No... I really came in looking for a Casino..."

 

GCS: "Yeah, but the Zakk Wylde is COOL!"

 

Me: "No... Thanks.. I really want a Casino..."

 

GCS: "Yeah, but you can SHRED on a Zakk Wylde! Ya can't do that ona CASINO!!"

 

Me: "Uh... Ya wanna leave me alone now??? Thanks..."

 

GCS: "Pfffft! Whatever!"

[copper1281734000]

Yeah, that's kinda like how guitar center treats me. I'm just looking at guitar (not playing), and they come up and start talking about their financing plans. Most of the other times, they don't even ask me if I need help, and there's a bunch of them just standing about. I always go to local mom and pop shops. Much better service and better knowledge.

[Nickblues1]

Brad - There is a guy near me who is an Authorized Service Center for a lot of Brands of Guitars from Martin's to Fenders, Gibson, Epi, Taylor, etc. He charges 75.00 for a setup.

 

Then there is the local Music Shop that this Luthier owns, He's been doing it for 35 years and he charges 32.00 for a fixed bridge and 38.00 for a floating trem setup. Absolutely great work all the way around.

[Amino Moore]

I never blanket endorse any big box store but the Sam Ash store in Nashville seems to be an exception to the rule.

 

Obviuosly I haven't dealt with every single sales person there.

 

They have never been pushy but they ask if I need assistance.

If I say "just looking" then they're off and out of my hair, what little I have left!

Most everything I have picked up to check out has been set up and has a decent set of strings.

 

I like the GC in Knoxville, too. THey seem to be a little more laid back than other GC's. (Nashville, Dallas)

 

But whenver possible I try to deal with a locally owned shop since I support the little guy.

[keeffan]

Long and short of it...

 

Guitar Center = Wal Mart of Guitars (from a customer service perspective)

 

If you know what you want and are willing to get it on the cheap, maybe a good thing. I'd rather shop online than put up with Stairway, Teen Spirit, and Pantera all being poorly played simultaneously at GC.

 

When it comes to online shopping, 1 word...SWEETWATER. They are the best, bar none.

 

Just my $.02

[pohatu771]

Compared to your stories, my Guitar Center is great. The guitars are generally in tune (unless someone has just put it back, and you can usually tell by the person), and have good strings. Salespeople are all different, though. Some will be great with me, others won't leave me alone, others won't even look at me.

 

The closest "little store" doesn't sell Epiphone or Gibson, so I can only go there for my Fender or Yamaha purchases. The next closest likes to sell weird brands (mostly Asian Strat copies), though they have a huge Ovation selection. The prices are terrible, though.

 

If you've ever heard of Buzzo's, he has great prices, but he doesn't stick to any particular brand. He has a lot of used Fenders (at great prices), but he mostly just buys whatever he can get a deal on.

 

My favourite, however, is "the biggest little guitar shop on Earth," the world-famous Great House of Guitars. They'll give me some good deals. I talked them down to $495 on a new Casino.

[brad1]

Nick - Ok, I feel a little better. I was thinking that perhaps those prices were only out here.

You really are lucky to have a shop like that to go to. Around Sacramento, places like that are pretty much non-existent.

[JBL2]

Same is true of the Guitar Center near me, and even Sam Ash - the guitars on display are more or less in tune. And my experience with their salespeople is similar as well, you never know what to expect when you walk in the door. Some are very helpful, others are too busy talking with their associates to acknowledge you. And every once in awhile I'll get a rude saleman who talks down to me as if I know nothing about guitars. Mind you, I've been playing for over 30 years so that really gets my goat when it happens.

 

As an alternative, I found a local music store that's family owned, and the difference is amazing. The guitars are already set up, and the staff is always friendly and helpful. The only downside is that their prices for higher end guitars are a little more than the chain stores, and their selection isn't as extensive.

[Nickblues1]

Brad - the added bonus is most of the employees have degrees in music. They know the answers to just about any question you may have. They are competitive in price to a GC a few miles away. I give them 90% of my business. I don't want to see them close the doors anytime soon.

[Dave]

GC is generally a place that hires working musicians and the ones in my area are generally courteous and knowledgeable, but they are out to make commission. That said, they will ask you what you are interested in, help you find it, get you set up, and leave you alone for a while to try it out. Then, they will stop by and see how you are doing while they make their rounds with other customers. I llike that. The Epi LP that I bought had completely dead strings and a high setup. They gave me free strings and apologized for the condition of the ones on the guitar. They said that they were in the process of changing string on every guitar in the store ( a monumental job).

 

I have a good friend who owns a mom and pop music store He told me he doesn't do much setup on any guitar until someone buys it because everyone wants something different. I can understand that, but it's not that hard to adjust a truss rod and bridge when the axe hits the store. That's a 10 minute job at best. When I try out a guitar that has string height at the 12th fret that you could slide a pencil under, I wonder about what kind of attention I'll get when I have a problem.

 

One large advertiser in GW mag says that their guitars are stored in climate controlled warehouses, unplayed, in the original packing, until you buy. Then they receive a 55 point setup by trained personnel before shipment. If that's true, what more could you want? I'm going to change everything when it arrives anyway. I just want to know that it's in good shape when I leaves the mail order dealer.

[flyingfrets]

I couldn't endorse any particular guitar shop, least of all the chains, but in fairness, I gotta say I do okay with my local GC.

 

I've known 2 of the managers since they were salesmen, so I ask for one of them if I don't see them when I go in. They know I'm not there to yank their chain or "just looking," so if I'm iterested enough in a guitar to ask for a proper set-up, they'll do it or have it done no charge. That I can remember, I've only declined to purchase 1 guitar after I asked that it be set-up, so they know it's in their best interest and mine to eat the cost of a set of strings & a set-up.

 

They've also been really good about getting parts they don't normally stock and they're always willing to match online & competitor pricing (most times they've even beat it by 5-15%). I've got no complaints...

 

Would they treat everyone this way? Honestly, I don't know, but my son & both my nephews play and they're treated pretty well by these 2 guys too. Then again, we all by-pass the sales staff, because these guys have a lot more lattitude in what they can & can't do.

 

And yes, they guitars on the wall all share the same uniformly shitty set-up. That's why if I find one that otherwise feels pretty good, I'll ask that it be done the right way before I commit to purchase. The worst they could say is "no." But they haven't yet...

[CodeMonk]

Nick - Ok' date=' I feel a little better. I was thinking that perhaps those prices were only out here.

You really are lucky to have a shop like that to go to. Around Sacramento, places like that are pretty much non-existent. [/quote']

 

Not much better in my area (RenoSparks, Nevada).

 

The GC here, well, service is hit and miss. Depends on the sales clerk you get.

One time I was checking out this Jackson, had nasty fret buzz on the 3rd fret. I told one of the clerks about it. He said "I'll take care of it", and then proceeded to disappear without doing anything about that Jackson.

 

There is one small shop in Sparks, Big E's Music. The owner, Eric, is a really nice and knowledgeable guy.

I once brought in an old, cheap and beat up classical that needed a new nut (Plastic nut, left in car on a warm day and the strings sank into the nut). He replaced it while I sat there and watched. No charge.

[pohatu771]

Remember the store I mentioned yesterday that specialises is Asian Strat copies?

 

I went there today. They advertised a Fender Japan Stratocaster. I assumed it was a MIJ/CIJ Strat.

 

It was a Japanese Squier. Then he gave me the pitch about it being a lot better than the Chinese, and how it had "real Fender pickups." I have the same model at home, Chinese, and it plays a lot better. He definitely assumed that I didn't know anything.

 

He did tune it for me, though, but I'm not sure why it wasn't already. It wasn't even close.

[Stewie]

I have purchased guitars from Online stores, and you get what you bought, a guitar that looks like the picture on the Website. If it has any kind of a Factory set up you are lucky. At least it hasn't been hammered on by every Tom, Dirk and Larry. I only deal with one store now and they have all my business. They match any price that GC, or MF has and convert it into Canadian dollars. I get a free set up with every guitar and a new set of strings included. When the guitar is set up it includes cleaning up the frets and filing the nut if required. Intonation, and adjusting the bridge and pickup height. If the neck requires a tweak it will be done. When I get the guitar back it is totally "roadworthy".

If you need a set up down the road it is 35 dollars plus strings.

I had a friend who owned a 1990 ES 335 since new, and never really liked the guitar. It always played and sounded "off". He asked me if I wanted to buy it and I said I would take it to my tech and have it set up and then see if I liked the guitar. Well it turns out the guitar had never been set up from the factory, and the intonation and bridge were all wrong and the nut needed to be worked on. When I got the guitar back it was a keeper. Total cost was 42 dollars, and a couple grand for the Gibby. Now it is my number one guitar.

What this shows me is that set up is everything, and when you find a good tech keep on his good side.