860tombarry Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Hello everyone my name is Tom. I bought my first Gison guitar a few months ago from an Ebay seller. I believe I got a reasonably fair deal. It ia a 2007 ES 339 sunburst 30/60 neck. I absolutely love the guitar. Sounds and plays like a dream. Last Saturday I was playing in a club that didn't have AC, it was broke. I sweat pretty easily as it is but that night the humidity was extreame. I could have rung my shirt. Near the end of the last set I noticed what appeared like fine cracks in the bass side bout right where my forearm rests while playing. The next day in sunlight I could see a dozen of these lines and feel a slight raise in them. Today I took the guitar to a luthier and was informed the guitar has veneer checking probably caused by the sweat. No real fix for it. Naturally I am sick over this. Now its not horrible to look at but definetly noticable when the light hits just right. I have since found out that laquer can be damaged by sweat. Anybody else seen this problem with sweat. By the way I was concerned that maybe the guitar was a fake but the luthier told me a fake wouldn't have the nitro celulose laquer and thereby this problem. I guess I should have wiped the guitar clean between every song. Anyway if you play a laminate guitar with Celulose finish try not to sweat on it.(solid wood wont have this problem only veneer) according to the luthier. I have noticed you all list your guitars so here are mine: 1973 epiphone cortez FT135(japan), bought new 1976 fender precision, bought new 1990 fender stratocaster American standard 2007 gibson ES 339 2008 guild CV-1 2008 Ovation 6756LX 12 string 2010 telecaster made from a kit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr newhaven Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 yeah...sweat...direct sun...extreme changes in temp/humidity can all wreak havoc on your finish... it wont affect the tone/playability of your axe but it will affect the looks... all i can tell you is...think of it like a new car getting its first ding...as long as they are finish cracks/weather checking...you should be ok... having a luthier check it out was smart... it does stink to have a new instrument get sullied like that though... years from now however you can look back at your axe and have it be like a history lesson...at least you can remember that time you were playing at that club! *im trying to look on the bright side! what club in ct where you playing...please dont say rookies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
860tombarry Posted July 30, 2010 Author Share Posted July 30, 2010 Thanks for the reply Mr newhaven. The club is in Colchester, called Cafe on Main. Great little club to work at. If I knew how I would post a link to thier web site. Again thanks for kind words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincentw Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 love the look of finish checking. to each his own. at least you play yours, and that's why Gibson makes 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhair Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 love the look of finish checking. to each his own. at least you play yours' date=' and that's why Gibson makes 'em.[/quote'] Just as I thought, here comes the Gibson damage control. Leave it to Gibson to respond with that comment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr newhaven Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 i think its a pretty standard comment... it sucks that the Original Poster had his finish eaten away by sweat...it does...but at the same time...it would have happened eventually no matter what guitar he had... thats why fender came up with the "road worn" series...it gets "worn" on the "road" its inevitable! gibson relics some very fine instruments...in order to emulate famous ones that have been worn down by time... we all love new guitars and how they look, feel, sound, smell...etc...but they aren't going to stay new forever! its not so much damage control in my opinion as its just gibson's way of making sure its customers don't feel hosed...and they shouldnt... but youre not going to see me wiping down my guitar each and everytime i play it...and youre not going to see me wearing gloves to play it...$hit happens...and the Original Poster will be fine...he will still love his instrument...and most importantly he will still continue to go out there and share his music! thats what they are for in the first place...if he wanted something to stay pretty buy a guitar....throw it in a case and hang it on the wall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 My SG has severe "forearm haze" that doesn't come out when I polish it. Eventually I'm sure that whole area will be bare wood. The neck and that area feel really smooth I assume because the sweat has eaten away a lot of the finish. I never wipe my guitar down after playing and I find myself playing in some hot garages here in southern California. I guess I'll just take it as it comes. My SG certainly doesn't look new at all... Also I hope you don't feel that Gibson or nitrocellulose finishes are inferior. They are both the best IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Rayba Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I have the same problem w/my 2005 ES-335 with an ebony finish. For some reason, I believe the ebony finish "forearem haze" is more noticeable then other colors I have a mid 70's ES-345 and a late 60's ES-330, which I have for years. Those guitars are a cherry finish and the "forearm haze" is not as prevelent as on the ebony ES-335. I played those guitar for years! I really believe the older guitars just had a better finish to them, then the newer models. When I use my ebony 335, I constantly wipe it down after every set, and polish that area when I get home. That is the only advise I could give you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sproggie Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 I've had my ES-339 for a couple of months now and I'm really pleased with it but it's the first nitro cellulose finish guitar I've had and I've been surprised to find out how easy it is to scratch the finish. Sorry to hear about the sweat problem but it's good to pass the information on. It's very hot and sticky here so it's something I'll need to watch out for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanC Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Some time ago I played in a hot club and I ended up sweating a lot. At the end of the night I noticed that the color had run from where my arm had been pressing on the guitar. Luckily for me when I took the guitar back to where I bought it they said that they would replace the guitar. So in the end it all worked out but now every time I sweat when I'm playing I worry that it will happen again! My concern Tom would be what's going to happen next time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BentonC Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 My understanding is that it has a great deal to do with pH levels in the individual's body. Those with higher pH levels will have a harder time with the reactions of sweat and skin oils on nitro finishes (which is the best looking and sounding finish on the planet, but it is also the most reactive). A good way to find out what your comparative pH level is to other players is to pay attention to your strings (if you use nickel or nickel plated strings). They will turn black and get muddy rather quickly, and your fingers will have a metal smell to them if you are sweating. Maybe someone who knows the science a little better than me could clarify a bit more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sok66 Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 It isn't going to stay new looking forever, nor will you want it to on down the road. In fact, many folks complain that the new guitars stay new looking for too long compared to the vintage originals. Take it in stride, it's all part of the new coming off, the mojo going in. (JMHO, of course.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
860tombarry Posted August 5, 2010 Author Share Posted August 5, 2010 I want to thank you all for your response's to my post. Also to let you all know that I'm over it so to speak, I mean that after a few days I realized that what I did to the guitar isnt any kind of life altering thing. Yes it's worth less dollars in value now but so what. I really am happy with the sounds and playability so I have no intention of selling it anyway. I will continue to play it and feel blessed that I am able to own such a fine instrument .Yes I will be careful to clean it more often and hopefully I wont experience any additional problems with the finish. But if I do sobeit. May I also say that this is wonderful group you all have here. Sincerely Tom Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 For what it's worth, I destroy watches within six months unless they're pretty high quality stainless steel - one reason I found the current "little" cell phones pretty handy since mine now is my pocket watch. Another factor or two I've found over the years has to do with other potential chemistry on the outside of one's body and/or that might otherwise get onto a guitar. For example, I'll never forget the sick feeling on a hot summer night around a campfire as I pulled out my guitar and started to play and the sweat seemed much worse on my bare forearm. It wasn't sweat. The "off" removed more than mosquitoes. It instantly turned the guitar finish to liquid. Changing temps and humidity also are hard on wooden instruments which is why I've asked a number of questions along those lines of Gibson "wheels." I'm convinced that those factors and variations in transport and transport time are much harder on guitars today than wooden stringed instruments were subject to in the "olden days." OTOH, heating in temperate climates always has brought very low humidity so... I dunno. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackflag Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 Get over it. Guitars show use when they're played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
860tombarry Posted August 8, 2010 Author Share Posted August 8, 2010 Wow, get over it. Thanks alot for the advice. I know giutars show use when they are used, and believe me mine get used. I was only trying to make the point that nitrocellose laquer over a laminate body apparently requires more care to maintain than other finishes. Wish I had joined a forum before playing the guitar to learn about the possibility of damage from sweat. Maybe I could have prevented it. I will certainly try to prevent any additional damage to the finish from sweat when I play it in the future. Look,I dont know alot about building guitars or their specifications. I just like to play them. I have played a 1990 fender strat on hundreds of jobs, and sweat all over it without damaging the finish. So I was just ignorant of the care required for laquer finished guitars. I played a fender precision so much that the paint in some areas is worn completely off. I dont whine about that. I expect that after years of use a finish will wear out, and I would never consider a refinish on it. I love it just the way it is. Anyway maybe someone will read these whinny posts and save themself from an Oh Sh#T situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 yeah.... I'll tell you this: Since I destroyed the finish on that one guitar with "off," I've been a lot more careful. OTOH, I've got some patterning on the finish of a guitar or two because of a combination of old age and, as far as I can tell, hauling them around to winter gigs when it was awfully cold outside. I'm not bothered by the latter; I've been awfully careful otherwise. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 Sorry to hear about that. Can you post some pictures of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
860tombarry Posted August 11, 2010 Author Share Posted August 11, 2010 I would Rocketman if I didn't have to join some other group. May be someday the technology will exist where you can just copy and paste a picture in the post a reply box. In any event the guitar doesn't look horrible. And hopefully if I take more care in cleaning during use it wont get any worse. Just be careful about sweating on the laquer and not cleaning it often during a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydra26 Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 I had a similar experience. Very disappointing. I knew it would happen eventually but I thought with some care I could prevent it. As it turns out, within about a year I had a couple noticeable (to me while playing) cracks in the top and I just noticed the nitro is starting to lift out of the joint at the top between the headstock overlay and the headstock. If I want to try and be positive about it I guess that assures me the overlay is not painted on, but I already knew that The disappointing part to me isn't that it happened (it was going to as others have said) but how soon it happened. The warranty is pretty clear on the fact it's beyond the manufacturer's control and therefore not covered. Personally, I despise the look of finish checking but I guess it can't be avoided. I'm not a rock star so my preferred look is as new as possible with maybe a little gradual edge rounding, as to me it would be indicative of an instrument that is not spending time on the road but is being played and is taken care of as well as possible. But again, like others have said, it doesn't seem to affect the sound and playability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bb Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Despite taking great care of my instruments, my year old 335 is now starting to develop some "arm haze". It's my little piece of history and I'm lovin' it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadhog96 Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Despite taking great care of my instruments, my year old 335 is now starting to develop some "arm haze". It's my little piece of history and I'm lovin' it! Have you tried some Virtuso Polish on the haze area? Usually it will remove it with ease unless there is something going on under the top coat finish that it can not touch. I get the same look on my 335, etc. and it works everytime. http://www.virtuosopolish.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 +1 on the Virtuoso polish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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