PrairieDog

Hey, JT congratulations on a great accomplishment. I did not put two and two together that it was your book. Writing book length technical reports for a living, (some run 400 pages plus) I am well aware just how difficult it is to create a popular work people want to actually read. We are known for at least creating better than average tech docs, probably because we take an effort to emphasize the social history that is relevant to interpret the otherwise dry data we collect. It has been on my list, but I’m going to grab it sooner now, for sure. I’m really fascinated by the women who managed to do all “the men’s work” while the boys were away, and then just got swept aside when they came back home. My ex MIL was one of the gals who flew the planes between bases, and my current (late) grand MIL worked in the ship yards, among other tasks. She lived in Nevada after the war and used to see the atomic test flashes out her kitchen window. Out of seven children only two have survived into their 70s. Most died terribly prematurely of illnesses that could be associated with radiation exposure. I’ll just leave that there. Anyway, both women couldn’t find good paying jobs after the war, because “they didn’t have any experience.” Omg.

Good on that tech! it is so refreshing to find someone who knows when to tap out, and nod to experts. As Dub-T said, I hope he gave you the PG back, but do store it in some archival tissue paper in a separate, ventilated box. I have seen some folks try to infuse them with expoxy to stabilize them, or even laminate them if they are intact enough, but again, the luthier can guide you.

We made it to an even dozen this month, including the banjos, and not including the lizard green Mitchell we still have to get to the niece. We are trying to be strong, but dang, something keeps popping up. Plus, I don’t have a 12 string yet, and now a roundneck reso is on the wish list for the slide player, who already has 3 square-necks. I’m thinking we are going to be ordering a 3rd big rack sooner than I expected. Argh. No room, no room!! We Just picked up one of those beginner recording bundles though, so after I break my brain trying to figure it out, I’m looking forward to posting some samples of the L1 if anyone is curious. Just give me a year or so 🙄

No, emphatically, no. And not that I am at all invested in believing this answer… PD whistles off into the wind…..

In the light of day, and rested eyes, just a couple more notes. Yes, the celluloid is breaking down, which is something you need to address. The gasses, trapped in the case, causes issues with the metals. It has caused some corrosion on the tailpiece structure, and is likely why you lost those two strings. In this case the raised pick guard worked to your advantage because rotting celluloid can do a number on the finish itself. Hopefully there was enough separation to avoid any discoloration. If there is, the new pick-guard will cover it back up. Keep it in the case, but open it at least every day to let the gas out, until you can get the pick guard rectified. Have the luthier decide if the tailpiece has enough integrity to handle the full string tension. It looks hopeful as it doesn’t seem to be deflecting to the bass side. But most of the corrosion is on the treble. Those necks are sturdy as baseball bats, but it will be good to even out the tension again with a full set of strings. I am now wondering if the tuners were replaced at some point? I’m only speculating because there are darker, vintage looking screws holding the plates in place that don’t match the shininess of the rest of the units, and that much shine is a bit unexpected in a case with off-gassing, especially when it has taken the finish off the other elements. And the buttons are really fresh looking. Even if they haven’t been played, the color would have mellowed some? Again, I’m just sitting on my couch, looking at pics, in love with this guitar. And these are not dings on it at all, just something to be aware of in terms of it being “stock mint” or an “excellent condition, antique beauty.” There is nothing wrong, and everything right, about someone doing what needs to be done to take care of and preserve a 100 year old guitar.

What you said… gosh, I’d like to see/hear it in person.

No worries! It’s terrific! Are the tuners actually still shiny? Wow. Unless they were replaced at some point. Anyway, it’s hard to tell, but is the pickguard “crunchy” /flaky/peeling feeling? Or is it still nice and smooth. I can’t tell if the lighter color is actually discoloration or part of the “swirl?” If so, the celluloid may actually be disintegrating, which would be a shame, and yes a replacement would be needed. That old plastic does age out. A good luthier may be able to create or source a proper replacement. But I would take it to a pro, not down the street to Guitar Center. Really a neat score, dude. Your Great grandma(?) did you good. Yes, learn to play it, it’s been trapped in a closet too long and is dying to sing. You have a fully crystallized top there. Nothing will sound exactly like it. I gotta go hit the hay, but looking forward to hearing more about this little trooper.

Oops, nope that didn’t do it. Tap on your the pic you loaded up to imgur. A column of links should appear to the right. hit the copy “direct” link one, and paste it in here.

Use Imgur to upload the photos there (just make the post “hidden” if you don’t want to show on the imgur site. Then click the direct link copy button (I think it is the second one down. And paste it in your post here. Usually takes me a few choices to find the one that makes the pic show up in the post.) Anyway, yes you are correct. the pg is “Tortoise shell celluloid” . The shop I bought my 1910 L1 assumed my tailpiece was real tortoise, but I found the ad for mine and it says celluloid. Mine apparently never had the pick guard, although the 1910 was spec’d with one. May have been a special order, or done in the transition to the next year when they dropped it. Of course it is your choice, but if I can be bold may I suggest, please don’t replace it? When you are talking rare instruments like this, just play it with the care a 100 year old instrument deserves to be treated. It’s a special survivor, especially since it sounds like it is near mint. and very few are left in original condition. I hope you can put up pics. Here’s mine just a few years younger, and a lot plainer (I’m assuming.) Mine is Adi spruce and Mahogany. It is a fabulous sounding guitar!

Your vintage silver-burst was a limited run. From a google search it sounds like they still only issue them occasionally. As when any limited good demand outstrips supply + vintage chic = higher prices.

Ooooo….. that’s nice. And what a roller coaster of a post! Glad the story had a winner ending!

Yes, and you seem kinda stuck on that sentence, and not bothering with all the words that followed. I’m not arguing I said that. That was the jumping off point for my comment. Obviously, the world would spin on if there were no guitars. But the original question was about whether GIBSON as a BRAND is a luxury. And just no, it is just not. Not by any actual, established meaning of the word. I’ve grown tired of spinning my wheels. It’s clear where you are rooted, and I’ve said my bit. Laying down my keyboard and getting back to work so I can earn money to buy another run of the mill Gibson. Maybe someday I’ll be able to special order a handmade, “luxury” Preston Thompson for 5 figures. Carry on as you were.

If an acne ridden bagger at Piggly Wiggly can buy a Gibson, the BRAND does not by any measure meet the real economic definition of a luxury item. If nothing else, you don’t pay luxury tax when you buy one. It feels like the whole convo is just attempting to rationalize “they got too expensive for ME, and I wanted one, so it must now be a horrible, elitist, luxury brand.” Something that costs more than one single individual can afford does not automatically convey elite or luxury status. Luxury has an actual measure of cost, rarity and the power/desire to signal elite status to other members of a society, and having the access/opportunity to purchase said item. There are true luxury items that are out of reach for even the Uber-weathy because there are only X number of them available. Again, to a starving penniless man, a hot dog is gonna be a luxury. A Ferrari is gonna be one to most of us commuter drone drivers. A Gibson is a very nice guitar, with a cost that reflects that. But anyone can buy some version of one if they have a few bucks to save up. No one has to unlock the door to the boutique to let you in to browse or ask to see your platinum card before they take the item out of the case.

So, you get my point? The top of the line Honda costs more than an entry level Mercedes, but you are using it as an example of a non-luxury brand. That’s all I’m saying with Gibson. There is a difference between affordability/expense and “luxury”. If you can’t buy one, yeah, you are going to think they are a luxury. But by pure market analysis, Gibson is still a mainstream brand, with luxury lines. Oh, and talk to folks in NYC, biggest city in the western world, and most do not own cars. A parking space in NY is a luxury, chuckle.

If you want to make “guitar” music you need to own a guitar. So in that sense it is a necessity. But to the larger, non guitar playing public that need is absent, and they may consider owning one a luxury. So again, scale/perspective plays here. But the average anyone with money to choose one thing over another can buy a Gibson “brand” guitar if they want to. It may take more “saving up” than a Harmony, or Mitchell, but some model of Gibson is within the reach of most people who have jobs, and some amount of discretionary income. So by that definition it is not a “luxury” in the sense of “signaling” rare or elite status. You don’t see mid-level managers driving low-end Ferraris. Luxury “brands” are ones who preserve the image they are out of reach of most common people. What Gibson builds well with a multi-tier model system is brand “loyalty.” By building good guitars at an attainable price they can catch the kids who are choosing between the major companies. And chances are those kids will keep trading up as they are able. There is a whiff of elite status wafting around by having those golden apples at the top of the tree and so giving a sense of being “in the circle.”

Short answer, 2019 (the first “1” and the fifth number: “9” and it was the 19th guitar made on the 225th day of the year. If that clears the Gibson dating mud a bit for you. Enjoy!

I’ve been watching this thread play out cause it’s a neat discussion and trying to avoid being pedantic, but here goes. I gotta at least share the actual definition a “luxury” is anything that is not essential to one’s survival, but “nice to have.” As some have pointed out, there is a scale of affordability involved in what is considered a luxury. But generally, a luxury “brand” is one that only people with hefty amounts of disposable income are able to afford to and actively buy, and usually to signal elite status to others. Since hordes of ambitious and dedicated teenagers with a part-time jobs can save up enough to buy a starter Gibson, I would say, no, it is not a luxury brand. But their line certainly includes ‘luxury’ models, that only a few are going to drop the change on, and yeah, that purchase probably involves more than just something to make music on. But I think that says more about the player, and only tangentially Gibson’s willingness to cater to them because they are able to.

Thanks, Sheep, all good to know and a nice description of the process. I’m still trying to catch up with my buddy. We keep being busy at the wrong times to chat.

I once was driving down the freeway right behind a panel truck with a loose roll-up door. I watched as the door gradually lifted up until we could see inside the empty box, except for the unsecured forklift that was now slowly shifting its way towards the open door… guessing what was about to happen, I began to put as much room between me and that truck as I could, without making the folks behind me try to pass around. unaware of what was about to go down, literally. sure enough, the machine finally tipped out onto the pavement and bounced/rolled across the lanes. Luckily it was midday, and my maneuver was enough to slow traffic so that the jack made it all the way over to the far right lane without hitting anyone, and where folks could get around it. good thing there was an exit just ahead and all our honking and waving clued the driver in that something very bad had just happened. Something that could have been a helluva lot worse. My mom in the car turned to me and said “It was like you knew that was going to happen.” I just shrugged. Always assume the worst when driving in the Twin Cities.

Man, I have a whole tool bench full of road tools. I always feel sorry for the sap that got back to the shop missing some bit of kit. My fave is a 5lb sledge. I use it all the time. Nice heavy chisel is another excellent piece I nearly got rear-ended for.

Yeah, I cut my crummy Home Depot brand in half and my electron microscrope showed me the molecular structure was only cubically packed instead of Greco’s Hexagonal pattern. Man, I wish I hadn’t blown the 1.29.

Ettu, jdgm? 😂

Of course you didn’t, because union folks back in the 19th and 20th century literally laid down their lives so we could have weekends off, 8 hour days, and safe(r) job sites. People have mostly forgotten the bloody history behind fair wages and livable work conditions. The Italian Hall Massacre is just one instance where anti-union folks went to extremes. 75 people died, many were children, when an anti-union activist shouted “fire” at a Labor sponsored Christmas party. Strikers were often shot upon by militias and police, The blood was shed on both sides, but in the end, it was the union strikes, and egregious deaths, that ended the robber baron stranglehold on workers and exploitation that I mentioned above. It is partly government protections that arose out of the strikes and part pure market forces that cause non-union shops to toe the line with union benefits. Owners know if you don’t treat your workers fairly, they can always walk out. This is why efforts at union busting is so dangerous for even non-union employees, and why we have seen slips in protections over the past few decades. Once the owners get the idea they can squeeze their employees a little more, without repercussions, there is no reason not to see how far they can push it. I’m not a union shop, but I treat our employees as if we were because they could always either jump to one, and I want to stave off the disruption if they felt they needed to start one here.

Touché

You know, just saying, if you don’t want to play by the union impacts, you are free to work on Labor day, then for 12 hours a day for 6 or seven days a week, for 1 dollar a day, with no insurance, vacation/sick leave, overtime, unemployment, or workers comp protections. Your employer will adore you. (And I’m writing this as a business owner who is perfectly happy being “forced” to offer my employees a livable, modern work life.)