Question on overall effectiveness

[glennc]

Hello to all,

I have purchased and Indonesian Epi LP Junior. I replaced the pickup with a Mean 90 and did the pots and cap. My problem is that a tech could not without changing the nut and tuners get the guitar to stay in tune. He said it didn't need the nut and tweaked it but it still pings, and the tuners, well they are what they are. I am also concerned about the efficacy of the wraparound tailpiece. No luck in solving the problem! I love the guitar except for the continual tuning issues.

I have seen the replacement tailpiece but they are fairly expensive and I read on more than one occasion that the studs inserts in the body must be removed and recessed to allow the tailpiece to sit low enough for a good action. No personal experience, just threads on this site.

My thought is a decision to either put the money in this one or to return it to stock and sell it toward a Epi Les Paul Special II with the bridge and stopbar. I feel this would be a better overall value with the changes I would make. Install the Mean 90 in the bridge and another in the neck. Change to higher quality components, nut, pots, caps and tuners. But I do not like to purchase Chinese made products, just a personal choice.

In the forums collective wisdom, what would be the better of the two choices? Thanks for any assistance!

Glenn

[antwhi2001]

If the strings are occasionally pinging in the nut, the slots at least need filing, and I wouldn't use that Tech again. It's a delicate job and you can easily file too much off, so it needs care. I usually try pulling a wound D string gently through the slots to open them up a bit.

 

The tuners should work ok as long as the strings have been put on with the right technique.

 

Another occasional problem is poorly-seated post bushings for the bridge, and the string tension gradually pulling the bridge until it tilts forward slightly. That would put tuning and intonation out. That sometimes happens when the guitar is new, but it eventually bottoms out.

 

Finally, it's a bolt on neck and some are better fitted than others. If you strum the open strings, hold the body and move the neck, does the pitch change slightly? If so, it could be just slightly loose and would benefit from re-fitting with some more material in the screw holes so they grip better.

 

At the end of the day it's a nice but very cheap guitar. I wouldn't spend a lot of money on it. An LP Special II might still have all those problems apart from the bridge post issue, but would give you lots more tonal variety.

[Spamonkis]

The above advise is all good, but I would like to add to it. First, do the easy stuff: Put a bit of graphite powder on all the bridge saddles and nut slots. Then, be sure the strings are wrapped around the tuner post properly in order to lock down (if you don't know what I am talking about, ask and I will explain). As stated above, be sure the bridge and neck are not shifting around. All of this is free (except the couple of bucks for a tube of graphite powder) and will fix most tuning problems.

[glennc]

If the strings are occasionally pinging in the nut, the slots at least need filing, and I wouldn't use that Tech again. It's a delicate job and you can easily file too much off, so it needs care. I usually try pulling a wound D string gently through the slots to open them up a bit.

 

The tuners should work ok as long as the strings have been put on with the right technique.

 

Another occasional problem is poorly-seated post bushings for the bridge, and the string tension gradually pulling the bridge until it tilts forward slightly. That would put tuning and intonation out. That sometimes happens when the guitar is new, but it eventually bottoms out.

 

Finally, it's a bolt on neck and some are better fitted than others. If you strum the open strings, hold the body and move the neck, does the pitch change slightly? If so, it could be just slightly loose and would benefit from re-fitting with some more material in the screw holes so they grip better.

 

At the end of the day it's a nice but very cheap guitar. I wouldn't spend a lot of money on it. An LP Special II might still have all those problems apart from the bridge post issue, but would give you lots more tonal variety.

 

Thanks for your time and advice. I will look at the nut and try your technique because I can not seemingly trust this guy. I wind the string over the end and then under for several turns to keep a downward pressure of the strings into the nut. But you can see them tilt and wobble. I tightened the neck when I got the guitar and it seems solid. What I find strange is that the strings go sharp much of the time, not just flat. The tailpiece is not to my liking although many do. I quess I will just save up for a better quality price range guitar.

Glenn

[glennc]

The above advise is all good, but I would like to add to it. First, do the easy stuff: Put a bit of graphite powder on all the bridge saddles and nut slots. Then, be sure the strings are wrapped around the tuner post properly in order to lock down (if you don't know what I am talking about, ask and I will explain). As stated above, be sure the bridge and neck are not shifting around. All of this is free (except the couple of bucks for a tube of graphite powder) and will fix most tuning problems.

 

Hello Spamonkis,

I have lubricated the nut, before I took it too the tech. Lubed after also. No luck. The nut needs to be done right and then possibly the tuners, then there is the problem of the tailpiece. I don't want and can't afford to put this much money out on this price point quitar. It sure is fun to play when it is in tune and the GFS Mean 90 pickup sound good. Thanks for your time

Glenn

[Old Rocker 59]

Why not just get rid of it and go to Guitar Center's website. Click on their used gear section where you could probably get a used Les Paul Studio or a G-400 for around the $200.00 mark or so. Those are much better quality guitars than either a Junior or a Special II .

[glennc]

Why not just get rid of it and go to Guitar Center's website. Click on their used gear section where you could probably get a used Les Paul Studio or a G-400 for around the $200.00 mark or so. Those are much better quality guitars than either a Junior or a Special II .

 

Howdy,

That may be the best idea. I tried a SG Vintage worn and it was terrible in finish quality (purchased online) awhile ago, but the G-400 has a IMH better finish quality. I do prefer the Les Paul Junior style, but I could get by with a Studio. Will certainly take a look! Thanks for the idea.

Glenn

[Mark L]

Hello. How are the tuners themselves? Do they have screws where you can tighten the tuning peg on itself?

[glennc]

Hello. How are the tuners themselves? Do they have screws where you can tighten the tuning peg on itself?

 

Hello Mark L! The tuners are sealed so they don't appear to be adjustable. Got the guitar new for like $90. It really isn't worth it, I think at this point in time.....

Glenn

[Whitmore Willy]

Hello. How are the tuners themselves? Do they have screws where you can tighten the tuning peg on itself?

The same economy tuners are used on both the Junior and the Special II. (Sometimes they work OK....Sometimes not)

 

.....

 

 

Willy

[Old Rocker 59]

IMO, the trapezoid tuners suck.

[glennc]

The same economy tuners are used on both the Junior and the Special II. (Sometimes they work OK....Sometimes not)

 

.....

 

 

Willy

 

Howdy Willy,

Yes they sure appear to be. My original thought was that a Special II might be more worth the effort and expenditure to upgrade as you have done so well, to my wallet. Mine just don't seem to hold and adjustment is far from fine tuning.... Still love the guitar, just a pain. The strings are also constantly moving on the tailpiece. Haven't seemed to have cut a set spot yet. Ah well! Take care

Glenn

[glennc]

The same economy tuners are used on both the Junior and the Special II. (Sometimes they work OK....Sometimes not)

 

.....

 

 

Willy

 

Howdy Willy,

Yes they sure appear to be. My original thought was that a Special II might be more worth the effort and expenditure to upgrade as you have done so well, to my wallet. Mine just don't seem to hold and adjustment is far from fine tuning.... Still love the guitar, just a pain. The strings are also constantly moving on the tailpiece. Haven't seemed to have cut a set spot yet. Ah well! Take care

Glenn

[Old Rocker 59]

Howdy,

That may be the best idea. I tried a SG Vintage worn and it was terrible in finish quality (purchased online) awhile ago, but the G-400 has a IMH better finish quality. I do prefer the Les Paul Junior style, but I could get by with a Studio. Will certainly take a look! Thanks for the idea.

Glenn

 

The G-400 Faded Vintage is still a much better guitar than what you have right now. I just bought one used at Guitar Center last week with a hardshell case for only $250.00. Helluva deal.

[glennc]

The G-400 Faded Vintage is still a much better guitar than what you have right now. I just bought one used at Guitar Center last week with a hardshell case for only $250.00. Helluva deal.

 

I'd have to agree on great deal! How does it feel and play? BTW good luck with it!

Glenn

[Mark L]

The same economy tuners are used on both the Junior and the Special II. (Sometimes they work OK....Sometimes not)

 

.....

 

 

Willy

I see. Thanks for posting those pictures.

[Old Rocker 59]

I'd have to agree on great deal! How does it feel and play? BTW good luck with it!

Glenn

 

I'm 53 and have been playing for 40 years . Besides this, I own 2 Fender Strats and a Epiphone Goth Les Paul Studio. This ranks right up there with them as one of the best guitars I've ever played to be honest with you. IMO it would give any of Gibson's faded series a run for it's money once setup properly.

[glennc]

I'm 53 and have been playing for 40 years . Besides this, I own 2 Fender Strats and a Epiphone Goth Les Paul Studio. This ranks right up there with them as one of the best guitars I've ever played to be honest with you. IMO it would give any of Gibson's faded series a run for it's money once setup properly.

 

Hi praise! Owned and sold an SG in my youth. Recall liking it. Just had that bad luck with the Epi Worn Brown SG, so am a bit leery.

Thanks

Glenn

[Old Rocker 59]

Hi praise! Owned and sold an SG in my youth. Recall liking it. Just had that bad luck with the Epi Worn Brown SG, so am a bit leery.

Thanks

Glenn

 

Just set it up according to Gibson's specs and you won't regret it, trust me on this one.

[glennc]

Just set it up according to Gibson's specs and you won't regret it, trust me on this one.

 

Well,

Went to look at a new Epi Studio, just to see if I liked them (they also had 15%) off and a price drop. Nice guitar, but I didn't care for it. Checked out some G-400's and liked them, but came across a Epi Limited Edition Les Paul Standard Royale with price match to 15%. NGD. Brought it home and will try it out for awhile. If I don't like it, I will probably go for the G-400. Much better quality IMO than the Jr. Fingers crossed!

Glenn

[Gordy01]

Glennc, I think that this guitar could do with a new Tusq nut, and possibly a new bridge.

 

In my time with guitars (over 45 years) I have only run into one tuner that was turning backward by itself while under tension.

That is not to say that these are not, but it is relatively rare.

What Whitmore Willy was asking about, is if the tuners have a small screw in the end of the button? If so, tension can be added or subtracted by turning those. They are not simply to hold the button on.

 

Your tuning and pinging issues would seem to me, to be a result of a cheap plastic nut. I do setup and repair work on guitars part time, and every time someone comes in with a guitar with a plastic nut from the factory, I recommend replacing it. Once properly filed a Tusq nut performs much better.

 

The bridge is another matter. I prefer a bridge with better adjustment capabilities.

They can get expensive though, so that may affect your choice.

You can file shallow grooves into the saddles to keep the strings from sliding around. That may be a cheap fix.

 

There is a member who turns up here once in a while named brianh. He has turned a few Juniors into wonderful guitars.

 

Even being an inexpensive guitar, if the neck and body are solid and you love the way the guitar feels, a few new pieces of hardware may turn this guitar into one that you keep for a long time.

[swamprock]

Glennc, I think that this guitar could do with a new Tusq nut, and possibly a new bridge.

 

In my time with guitars (over 45 years) I have only run into one tuner that was turning backward by itself while under tension.

That is not to say that these are not, but it is relatively rare.

What Whitmore Willy was asking about, is if the tuners have a small screw in the end of the button? If so, tension can be added or subtracted by turning those. They are not simply to hold the button on.

 

Your tuning and pinging issues would seem to me, to be a result of a cheap plastic nut. I do setup and repair work on guitars part time, and every time someone comes in with a guitar with a plastic nut from the factory, I recommend replacing it. Once properly filed a Tusq nut performs much better.

 

The bridge is another matter. I prefer a bridge with better adjustment capabilities.

They can get expensive though, so that may affect your choice.

You can file shallow grooves into the saddles to keep the strings from sliding around. That may be a cheap fix.

 

There is a member who turns up here once in a while named brianh. He has turned a few Juniors into wonderful guitars.

 

Even being an inexpensive guitar, if the neck and body are solid and you love the way the guitar feels, a few new pieces of hardware may turn this guitar into one that you keep for a long time.

 

The Junior is a good guitar, but you must be willing to invest a bit of time and money into it. I loved the way mine played and felt, and the quality on my particular Junior was very good, so I changed out the nut with a Graphtech Tusq, replaced the crappy die-cast tuners with Sperzel-style locking tuners, removed the green chicklet tone cap and put a .47uF Russian PIO cap in, and changed out the pickup with a GFS Mean-90. I also dulled the poly finish, strictly for asthetic purposes. Now she's a great sounding, great playing guitar that ended up as my Number 1 for a while. I still use her for a couple of my band's songs; the P-90 strong pick-attack tone in those particular songs isn't sharp enough with my Tribute Plus.

 

For the price, the Junior is a great mod mule that can be made into a really good tone machine. As is, it's strictly a starter guitar.

 

All my opinion, of course.

[glennc]

Glennc, I think that this guitar could do with a new Tusq nut, and possibly a new bridge.

 

In my time with guitars (over 45 years) I have only run into one tuner that was turning backward by itself while under tension.

That is not to say that these are not, but it is relatively rare.

What Whitmore Willy was asking about, is if the tuners have a small screw in the end of the button? If so, tension can be added or subtracted by turning those. They are not simply to hold the button on.

 

Your tuning and pinging issues would seem to me, to be a result of a cheap plastic nut. I do setup and repair work on guitars part time, and every time someone comes in with a guitar with a plastic nut from the factory, I recommend replacing it. Once properly filed a Tusq nut performs much better.

 

The bridge is another matter. I prefer a bridge with better adjustment capabilities.

They can get expensive though, so that may affect your choice.

You can file shallow grooves into the saddles to keep the strings from sliding around. That may be a cheap fix.

 

There is a member who turns up here once in a while named brianh. He has turned a few Juniors into wonderful guitars.

 

Even being an inexpensive guitar, if the neck and body are solid and you love the way the guitar feels, a few new pieces of hardware may turn this guitar into one that you keep for a long time.

 

Hello Gordy01,

I considered it and think that for me I would prefer a higher price point guitar. Going to give the Junior to my Grandson or sell it. It definitely needs a nut, the idea of cutting notches could work but it is just adding more money to it. Rather put the money elsewhere like (maybe) the LP Standard Royale... Thanks for the ideas!!!

Glenn

[glennc]

The Junior is a good guitar, but you must be willing to invest a bit of time and money into it. I loved the way mine played and felt, and the quality on my particular Junior was very good, so I changed out the nut with a Graphtech Tusq, replaced the crappy die-cast tuners with Sperzel-style locking tuners, removed the green chicklet tone cap and put a .47uF Russian PIO cap in, and changed out the pickup with a GFS Mean-90. I also dulled the poly finish, strictly for asthetic purposes. Now she's a great sounding, great playing guitar that ended up as my Number 1 for a while. I still use her for a couple of my band's songs; the P-90 strong pick-attack tone in those particular songs isn't sharp enough with my Tribute Plus.

 

For the price, the Junior is a great mod mule that can be made into a really good tone machine. As is, it's strictly a starter guitar.

 

All my opinion, of course.

 

Hey swamprock,

I like you found the guitar a pleasure to play and loved it with the Mean 90s. Not knowing the proper values exactly, I put CTS 500K Volume and a 250K Tone with a Orange Drop .22uf Sprague cap. I just don't want to spend like $60 for a nut, more for good tuners and the bridge is around $70. I've also read that they need the stud bushings possible removed and lowered to get the new bridge low enough for a good action.

If I keep this LP Royale, I am going to put the Mean 90 in it and another in the neck. What pots volume and tone along with type and size cap value would you suggest?

Glenn

[Old Rocker 59]

Well,

Went to look at a new Epi Studio, just to see if I liked them (they also had 15%) off and a price drop. Nice guitar, but I didn't care for it. Checked out some G-400's and liked them, but came across a Epi Limited Edition Les Paul Standard Royale with price match to 15%. NGD. Brought it home and will try it out for awhile. If I don't like it, I will probably go for the G-400. Much better quality IMO than the Jr. Fingers crossed!

Glenn

 

Glad to hear about your choice . A Les Paul standard is definately way much better than a Junior. You made the right decision, so go and enjoy your new guitar !