ES-335 Fixed Stop Tail or Trapeze

[soundjunkie]

Anyone know why Gibson switched between using the two on ES-335's? Cost? Form follows function? Ease of re-string? Tone? All the above or just because Gibson is Gibson and noone really knows why?

 

I personally think the 335 looks "right", only with a trapeze. There has to be some reasonable explanation why someone decided to put the ugly stop tails on them.

[spitball]

Well, the original spec was the stop tail. The trapeze was not applied until 1965, about seven years into the production of the ES-335. They went back to the stop tail with the DOT Reissue model in 1981. From the anecdotal evidence I have seen on the web, many more ES-335 players prefer the stop over the trapeze, mainly for tone/sustain.

 

I have had ES-3x5 guitars with both tail pieces. My 1967 ES-335 had the stock trapeze. I agree, it looked great, but I did not like the stiff feel of the strings...bending them was VERY difficult on that guitar, thanks to the longer strings. The sustain was less than other ES guitars I have had, but the tone was nice and airy, for lack of a better word. I prefer the tone and sustain of my current ES-345 with the stop tail, but if money was not an issue, I'd like to have both because they are so different.

[soundjunkie]

Thanks! I knew there was a reasonable explanation. Makes me feel better about ordering a new Memphis 1963 ES-335TDC 50'th anni. Should be in my paws in a month. If anyone reads these posts from Gibson, build me a nice one boys and girls! I'm pretty excited about it, although I will have to change my avatar as the ES-135 is for sale. Or do I need both!!! I also need to get a Hare Krishna stamp for the head stock to make it complete. Ahhhh, miss the hippie days.

[Versatile]

Yes you need both...!!

 

The ES 335 and ES 135...(in my case ES 137)...are highly complementary IMO

 

And yes, IMX stop tailpieces on semis seem to work very well...

 

V

 

[soundjunkie]

I really like the ES-135 a lot, so if it doesn't sell, I'll be more than happy keeping it. It is in amazing condition. Got it a year ago from a oollector and looks like it was never taken out of the case.

[Twang Gang]

The way they play is quite different, and the two Gibson Archs I have owned that had trapezes also had floating bridge. When you change strings it is a pain to get the bridge exactly in the right place for intonation purposes. Thus tuning can become more of a problem with a trapeze.

 

The stop bar provides more sustain, bridge stays in one place, and just makes for an easier set up etc, thus they sell more of them.

[Danny W.]

The way they play is quite different, and the two Gibson Archs I have owned that had trapezes also had floating bridge. When you change strings it is a pain to get the bridge exactly in the right place for intonation purposes. Thus tuning can become more of a problem with a trapeze.

 

The stop bar provides more sustain, bridge stays in one place, and just makes for an easier set up etc, thus they sell more of them.

 

On an ES-3x5 the bridge position is fixed, regardless of the type of tailpiece.

 

Danny W.

[soundjunkie]

Another related question if I may. It would seem to me that the trapeze would offer a more springy feel as the strings are much longer than on the stop tail.

I realize it's the same length to the bridge.

[spitball]

Another related question if I may. It would seem to me that the trapeze would offer a more springy feel as the strings are much longer than on the stop tail.

I realize it's the same length to the bridge.

 

As mentioned, the difference I perceived was a good bit MORE tension with the trapeze tail. Certainly, it was more difficult to bend the strings. I'm curious if other players have that same experience.

[Versatile]

Personal opinion is that trapezes on a semi are 'somewhat' cosmetic, although there may be slight string tension differences

 

Trapezes on hollows are essential by definition...but that is a different story...

 

IMO a trapeze or Bigsby adds a certain aesthetic which many find attractive

 

V

 

[jimmyl51]

I asked Larry Carlton this very question when he gave a clinic in Los Angeles a few years ago. He told all of us 'hey guys I can just feel the 'sustain' and feel of the strings that much better with the stop tailpiece'..............jim in Maine

[capmaster]

Well, the original spec was the stop tail. The trapeze was not applied until 1965, about seven years into the production of the ES-335. They went back to the stop tail with the DOT Reissue model in 1981. From the anecdotal evidence I have seen on the web, many more ES-335 players prefer the stop over the trapeze, mainly for tone/sustain.

 

I have had ES-3x5 guitars with both tail pieces. My 1967 ES-335 had the stock trapeze. I agree, it looked great, but I did not like the stiff feel of the strings...bending them was VERY difficult on that guitar, thanks to the longer strings. The sustain was less than other ES guitars I have had, but the tone was nice and airy, for lack of a better word. I prefer the tone and sustain of my current ES-345 with the stop tail, but if money was not an issue, I'd like to have both because they are so different.

 

 

As mentioned, the difference I perceived was a good bit MORE tension with the trapeze tail. Certainly, it was more difficult to bend the strings. I'm curious if other players have that same experience.

I remember a Howard Roberts Fusion guitar twice offered to me by two pals within ten years. I felt that the tension basically was about the same with the floating tailpiece, and the upside was its pretty nice intonation less sensitive to the force fretting the strings with. The downside was as stated in the quoted posts that bending didn't bring that much more tension to the strings, and so its effect was rather limited.

[Mojorule]

I remember a Howard Roberts Fusion guitar twice offered to me by two pals within ten years. I felt that the tension basically was about the same with the floating tailpiece, and the upside was its pretty nice intonation less sensitive to the force fretting the strings with. The downside was as stated in the quoted posts that bending didn't bring that much more tension to the strings, and so its effect was rather limited.

 

Yes, but the HRF has a unique floating tailpiece in the fingers model. You can actually vary the break angle of the strings by lowering or raising the fingers, which also alters what you call tension, and has some effect on sustain. The variation is pretty minimal, but it does exist. Raise the fingers and you get something close to a traditional trapeze feel, though with much more solid anchors than you get with a standard Gibson or Epiphone trapeze. The strings will slap back more than on a stop tailpiece, and give some really lovely rhythmic snap, especially with the pickup selector in the middle position. Screw the fingers down and you will get something closer to the feel of a stopbar.

[Old335]

I've owned and played both and, to me, there's a real difference in how the two feel and sounds. Someone summed it up well, when they said (re semi-hollow body electrics) the trapeze makes the guitar more hollow body and the stop tail makes it more solid-body.

 

I prefer the look of the trapeze and the playability and sound of the stop tail (which is what I use, since I can't justify having both at the moment.)

[SteveFord]

My next (and final) 335 will have to have a trapeze on it. Maybe it's just nostalgia for an earlier time when I bought a new one in the 70s but I really loved the looks of it. The stop tail piece may be a better thing but it just doesn't have the same appeal to me.

[sok66]

Anyone know why Gibson switched between using the two on ES-335's? Cost? Form follows function? Ease of re-string? Tone? All the above or just because Gibson is Gibson and noone really knows why?

 

I personally think the 335 looks "right", only with a trapeze. There has to be some reasonable explanation why someone decided to put the ugly stop tails on them.

 

When the 335 family was intorduced in '58 the Bigsby tailpiece was quite popular. Gibson made them available on 335s on a custom order basis. Unfortunately, installing one left the stop tail stud holes exposed, which Gibson would cover with the "Custom Made" plaque seen on some vintage models. On some they also used pearl dots to cover the holes. Eventually (1965 - '1980) Gibson switched to the trapese in order to make the Bigsby installation cleaner. Plus it saved production costs. When guys switched to lighter guage strings in the mid-late 60s the trapeze became a tuning issue, as it wasn't a stable as the stop tail. Plus, many feel the stop improves tone and sustain.