94 Bird Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I purchased a 94 Hummingbird without playing it then to find that the "G" one the bottom "E" string hurts my ears. It sound as if no vibration is happening. I can barely feel vibration coming from the back. I am reluctant to spend the money to replace the nut and saddle with bone considering the street value of the guitar. I had thought the older instruments made in Korea might be slightly better quality. I guess what I am asking "is the change in tone and playability from a pro. setup and replacing the nut and bridge worth doing". I play Guild and Martin two very distinctly different sounds, but I wanted to have that Gibson sound with out the huge Gibson cost. I had hoped Epiphone would quench my Gibson need. I like the neck, it feels good in my hand and I think the top is spruce so it should resonate well but it is not. The Hummingbird is a beautiful guitar but I want more. I'll play an ugly guitar "like Willie's" if it sounds good. Any ideas as to how I can change the tone and get that Country sound that comes from the Gibson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 A guitar has a characteristic voice and it is pretty much nothing you can do to radically alter it. If it is say a bright sounding guitar it will always be bright sounding. If you want a sound different than what your guitar is putting out you will probably end up buying a different guitar. A proper setup though is always worth while. The strings may just be binding in the nut or something. You can put whatever kind of nut and saddle in. But I have never known changing to a bone nut and saddle to make any noticeable difference in sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarLight Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I purchased a 94 Hummingbird without playing it then to find that the "G" one the bottom "E" string hurts my ears. It sound as if no vibration is happening. I can barely feel vibration coming from the back. I am reluctant to spend the money to replace the nut and saddle with bone considering the street value of the guitar. I had thought the older instruments made in Korea might be slightly better quality. I guess what I am asking "is the change in tone and playability from a pro. setup and replacing the nut and bridge worth doing". I play Guild and Martin two very distinctly different sounds, but I wanted to have that Gibson sound with out the huge Gibson cost. I had hoped Epiphone would quench my Gibson need. I like the neck, it feels good in my hand and I think the top is spruce so it should resonate well but it is not. The Hummingbird is a beautiful guitar but I want more. I'll play an ugly guitar "like Willie's" if it sounds good. Any ideas as to how I can change the tone and get that Country sound that comes from the Gibson? I am not sure if replacing all that will be worth it, if you are not now satisfied with the tone on your 94 hummingbird...it is after all 20 years old. I can tell you that the new Epiphone Hummingbird Pro for $299 is utterly stellar, and many retailers simply can not keep it in stock. Sweetwater gets them in usually in groups of four, like today..and at this moment there are only two left. They are very good with the sound you want..a full 80% or more of the Gibson version...I can also add that I have a 2008 Epiphone Hummingbird..and I like it better than my other 3 Masterbilts. There is something about these hummingbirds that simply hits formula....so if you need a cheap version of the Hummingbird, with almost all the tone and beauty of the Gibson... then $299 is a very small price indeed to pay. I have kept the plastic saddle and nut on my Hummingbird..and am delighted with the tone and sound..bone would over kill it I believe. I will play it to death. In fact I love it so much, I will be buying a second Hummingbird soon, just because my present one gets used so hard. I will never be without a Hummingbird again. They really are magic, and have a nectar sweet tone all there own. I've never heard another guitar in the world sound like it..and I've played..and owned them all. Good luck..check out the Sweetwater Epi Hummingbirds...but I can tell you..they will not be there long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I would guess it may require a proper set up if it has not had one yet.. if the nut cut at the G and E are tight.. it may sound flat.. if the saddle at the top is at the wrong angle or to sharp.. it could cause that as well... any binding of the strings when you tighten the strings? .. what strings are you using as well? lights? mediums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morkolo Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I guess I'll be the one who says it, if you want the sound of a Gibson Hummingbird you're going to have to buy a Gibson. You can make the Epiphone Hummingbird play beautifully with the right amount of work but it will never sound anywhere close to the Gibson version..... not 80%, that's just wishful thinking. It's just the apples to oranges comparison, two different guitars with two completely different sounds. But to come on here and state that an Epiphone Hummingbird will sound virtually the same is misleading at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94 Bird Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 I guess I'll be the one who says it, if you want the sound of a Gibson Hummingbird you're going to have to buy a Gibson. You can make the Epiphone Hummingbird play beautifully with the right amount of work but it will never sound anywhere close to the Gibson version..... not 80%, that's just wishful thinking. It's just the apples to oranges comparison, two different guitars with two completely different sounds. But to come on here and state that an Epiphone Hummingbird will sound virtually the same is misleading at best. Thanks for your incite Morkolo but I am not simple enough to think I can get Gibson Sound for $200.00. I would like however to get as close as I can to that county sound that one gets with Gibson not the tinny sound that this instrument is making. I am finding it hard to believe at least from my limited experience thus far with an Epiphone instrument that it could ever play beautifully, granted this Hummingbird is horribly sour and maybe should not be used as the measure. Having said that I'll keep an open mind and go to GC and play other Epiphones before giving up on them. I do sincerely thank all for committing and I am heeding your guidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarLight Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I guess I'll be the one who says it, if you want the sound of a Gibson Hummingbird you're going to have to buy a Gibson. You can make the Epiphone Hummingbird play beautifully with the right amount of work but it will never sound anywhere close to the Gibson version..... not 80%, that's just wishful thinking. It's just the apples to oranges comparison, two different guitars with two completely different sounds. But to come on here and state that an Epiphone Hummingbird will sound virtually the same is misleading at best. There are those with differing views always. That's what makes America great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarLight Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Thanks for your incite Morkolo but I am not simple enough to think I can get Gibson Sound for $200.00. I would like however to get as close as I can to that county sound that one gets with Gibson not the tinny sound that this instrument is making. I am finding it hard to believe at least from my limited experience thus far with an Epiphone instrument that it could ever play beautifully, granted this Hummingbird is horribly sour and maybe should not be used as the measure. Having said that I'll keep an open mind and go to GC and play other Epiphones before giving up on them. I do sincerely thank all for committing and I am heeding your guidance. While you may not get an exact Gibson sound with $200..wasting $3000 plus is usually for the rich or uninformed. Those who think you can't get good sound from a cheaper guitar usually are the ones who have squandered and wasted thousands on guitars they could have paid thousands less for, but won't admit it because it is too late. Your older Hummingbird may not have been be cared for properly by its previous owner, and thus it may have suffered like any guitar would...find a NEW Epi Hummingbird, put new strings on it, and you will be happy. Just look at these comparison honest Hummingbird comparison videos....the two play exactly the same...no difference...some even believe the Gibson Hummingbird sound a bit tinny and poor compared to the Epi Hummingbird. Watch them both and YOU decide..don't let these people who squander money and have no knowledge about Hummingbird guitars sway you. Here are both Hummingbird comparisons, side by side... Epiphone Hummingbird is the clear winner here for the money. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bEHM4Edn6M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1rDlsvU-Go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morkolo Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 While you may not get an exact Gibson sound with $200..wasting $3000 plus is usually for the rich or uninformed. Those who think you can't get good sound from a cheaper guitar usually are the ones who have squandered and wasted thousands on guitars they could have paid thousands less for, but won't admit it because it is too late. Your older Hummingbird may not have been be cared for properly by its previous owner, and thus it may have suffered like any guitar would...find a NEW Epi Hummingbird, put new strings on it, and you will be happy. Just look at these comparison honest Hummingbird comparison videos....the two play exactly the same...no difference...most even believe the Gibson Hummingbird sounds tinny and poor compared to the Epi Hummingbird. Watch them both and YOU decide..don't let these people who squander money and have no knowledge about Hummingbird guitars sway you. Here are both Hummingbird comparisons, side by side... Epiphone Hummingbird is the clear winner here for the money. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bEHM4Edn6M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1rDlsvU-Go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolver66 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 A friend has the new Hummingbird Pro which he loves, and i have had a play of. Exceptional guitar with a sound all it's own, but not a Gibson one that is true. I hesitate to stay better, but different. Sounds like your particular model could have a variety of causes to the problem, but for £300GBP you could get yourself a great guitar with something like the sound you are looking for. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94 Bird Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 I was able to visit GC this weekend. I was able to find one epi that I liked somewhat. While it was leaps and bounds above my 94 Hummingbird it still lacked that sweet mellow sound that I am looking for and it cost $699.00 more that I wanted to pay when I can get a great sounding Gibson for $2000.00. I guess my ear hears differently than many on this board as I listened to both youtube demos and came away hearing a very distinct difference between the Epi and the Gibson. If you listen closely you can hear a pleasant smooth mellow sound in the Gibson base that in the Hummingbird sounds tinny but ok I guess just not what I like to hear. As a child I was taught that you can only perform as good as your tools will allow. I was also taught be frugal with my pennies so I look for the good deal and have found in the lower end tools from time to time a tool that does strongly compare to the more expensive tool. Unfortunately, Epiphone is not one of those tools and sadly there was a day when they were a quality instrument. I do agree that Epiphone can be an OK instrument if OK is all you want and you are OK with sounding OK. I for one do not play as well as I would like so I need to lean heavily on my tools. I want to make music that others will enjoy listening to and do as little damage to their hearing as possible. So, I will be one of the "un-informed" and pay the difference for quality. Granted I wont be able to buy as many Gibsons' as I could Epiphones'. I do not have a lot of money but I strongly believe that when I commit to something then I give it all that I can and tool is a part of that commitment then I should buy the best that I can afford and sometimes a little beyond that. I have gotten very far away from my original question, but, the question has been answered. I will pass the Hummingbird on to someone who does not have an instrument and will be OK with OK. I know that what I am say here will disappoint and even anger some on this board. That is not my intent I just wanted share my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggy Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 So your only actual reason for coming here and posting on this forum is simply to disparage Epiphones. Well thank you for your kind insight which I'm sure will be gratefully received by those of us lesser mortals who are apparently only satisfied with an OK instrument for our OK talents. We of course will from now on bow down to your greater insight and look forward to being enlightened further in due course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggy Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94 Bird Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 No Wiggy that was not my reason for coming to this board. I came to find out if I could do anything to improve the tone of my 94 Hummingbird (epi). I learned that no matter what I do I will not be able to get any where near to what I want out of this instrument so no need to try. Please read the thread from the beginning and you will see how my post developed. I did not disparage anyone here nor would I. I tried to follow the direction provided me by others and investigate more deeply Epiphone tone as compared to Gibson. That is what I did and I shared my experiences, findings and conclusions. My conclusion applies only to me and my needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggy Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Your words ... I do agree that Epiphone can be an OK instrument if OK is all you want and you are OK with sounding OK ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94 Bird Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 Your words ... I do agree that Epiphone can be an OK instrument if OK is all you want and you are OK with sounding OK ... I am sorry if that offended you. I was saying that I wanted more than OK. Maybe I could have said it differently. I when come back to this board for help I will try to be more sensitive and be more careful how I say things so not to offend with my statements of fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old mark Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I recently discovered Epiphone acoustic guitars - I already owned several of their electric guitars, and I love them, and needed a good sounding and playing acoustic to take along to a few Open Mic events this summer. I bought my first Epi acoustic late this fall, and I now own 4 of them, one of which is a 2000 Hummingbird. I never played a Gibson Hummingbird, but had played my wife's 1960's Gibson Heritage Jumbo. I very much prefer the playability and characteristic sound I get from my Epiphones. The only changes I made to any of them was truss rod adjustment, a very slight shaving of the saddle on 2 of them and of course good strings...I have been using several different types and brands of strings, and I am leaning toward Gibson Masterbilts. IMO, Epiphones are different guitars from Gibsons. I LOVE the sounds I get from my Hummingbird and I believe the Masterbilt strings will make that guitar sound even better than the current Martin strings. I have at least 8 Gibson electric guitars, and also have several Epiphone electrics...they are different manufacturers and have different characteristics and different sounds. I prefer the Epiphone acoustics to the Gibsons and even most Martins that I have played over the last 50 years. The Epi acoustics have a very mellow, ringing sound that I do not find on other makes, and the more I play them, the more I like them. Epiphone is its own thing, not a Junior League Gibson. mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el capitan Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 In the videos the Epi is a Pro model(with electrics)and is played in a tuning.It sounds OK. The Gibson is capo'd at the 7th fret.How can you compare the two? You'd have to play the same thing on both. Not all Gibsons are that great.In 1968 they screwed the scratchplate on & beefed up the bracing.Dead bird. 70's models with the single block inlay share the exact same top & double X bracing as every other dread of the period, so no different from a J45. I got mine from a guy who thought it was a 70's,but it's an 80's Montana. That's the one! Warm tone to accompany the voice-just like it says in the catalogue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarLight Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 In the videos the Epi is a Pro model(with electrics)and is played in a tuning.It sounds OK. The Gibson is capo'd at the 7th fret.How can you compare the two? You'd have to play the same thing on both. Not all Gibsons are that great.In 1968 they screwed the scratchplate on & beefed up the bracing.Dead bird. 70's models with the single block inlay share the exact same top & double X bracing as every other dread of the period, so no different from a J45. I got mine from a guy who thought it was a 70's,but it's an 80's Montana. That's the one! Warm tone to accompany the voice-just like it says in the catalogue! el-capitan....you will need to watch and listen to BOTH videos all the way through...and you will find that the Epi Hummingbird and a Gibson Hummingbird are played back to back..same tuning, same capo for each, same person playing, exact same chords and strikes...one video with the capo back to back...the other without a capo back to back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el capitan Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Boring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Let's put it this way... There's a lot more to the sound and playability of a guitar than the nameplate and price tag, whether electric or acoustic. I've never cared for Fender electrics or Gibson/Epi/whatever Les Pauls. They ain't comfortable or as "playable" as many other instruments regardless of brand. That doesn't make a Strat or high end LP "bad," just something I don't care to play, and guitars I've never owned in some 50+ years of picking. When it comes to acoustic guitars or acoustic-electrics, there are some similar and some different variables. I'm not at all one to claim a different sort of bridge pin will make a guitar 50 percent better, but I will state that string choice and playing style will make a world of difference in how an acoustic sounds. There's a pretty decent case to be made also for different bridge/nut materials too, although I'm personally convinced that technique and string choice are likely the biggest variables on an acoustic. An AE IMHO tends to work best, too, regardless of price tag, if played relatively gently regardless of strings. The problem in ways to me is that I think "we" tend to make our instrument choices not by how we play, but by what we think is a neat guitar that others have been successful with. That IMHO is an error. For what it's worth, last Thursday I went to check with my brother and visit my s-i-l who had just had some pretty serious surgery at the big regional hospital. Dropped by the only "real" guitar store in the region and messed with some guitars. I literally had $2,000 I could drop on a guitar. There was a Gibbie HB "used" that was in super condition and sounded great. There also was a little Epi EL00 pro (solid top, btw) in a shipment that just came in. Guess which was "easier" for me to play what I play mostly, and which one I walked out of the store with? I likely would have gone for a Gibbie American Eagle LG2 if they had one but ... maybe not. The Epi plays very, very nicely with how I play. It has a solid top, although not solid wood sides. Were I to have done the LG2 with a Baggs 'stedda Fishman AE setup... it still would have been to have a Gibson headstock, given the versatility of working an AE opposed to a straight acoustic that negates most other variables. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morkolo Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I am sorry if that offended you. I was saying that I wanted more than OK. Maybe I could have said it differently. I when come back to this board for help I will try to be more sensitive and be more careful how I say things so not to offend with my statements of fact. You shouldn't have to apologize for the ability to hear the difference between one guitar and another. The Epiphone Hummingbirds are nice for what they are, but they don't sound like Gibson Hummingbirds... two completely different guitars that only look similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maff Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I found the two Hummingbirds sounded quite similar on mids but the Epi was a tad brighter on the highs (video). The overall sound, I thought the Gibson was a little more mellow. To say that the Epi was just OK was a little bit harsh. My Epi AJ sounds similar to the Hummingbird and the Texan but with its own character and these guitars are far from being labelled just 'OK'. The Epi was the brighter sounding guitar of the two on the video's but an experienced guitar player would know how to compensate, either in their play or choice of strings if they require a more mellow sound. A good luthier could take a Epi and make it sound better than the stock model too. It depends what you like to hear and Epi for me are a fantastic alternative to expensive models. Nothing can touch them for the money. Seems that some folk just can't be educated lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooseguy Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 El Capitano: Had to go to the john during the comparison comparison-came back- it was still going on - made me need to go again. Moose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 For what it's worth, I think there's some value to a Youtube vid in guitar comparisons, but not really when it comes to "tone." Too much has to do with other variables than what one may hear in person. Secondly, Let's assume I have a Gibbie HB and compare it playing the same piece but with different bridge pins. You'll find folks howling that the difference is easily worth the $100 for genuine gold-wire inlaid fossil whalebone pins. Yet... the player doing the identical piece on identical new strings may play an inch or so in a different position and - it's gonna sound different. Also I'm not all that certain that at my age I trust what anybody hears. It's like light where I only really trust a spectrophotometer to tell me the color. Each of us hears differently because our ears are different. The 20-y-o bird may have a bit of an internal problem that few have mentioned as a significant potential. As for Gib vs Epi... I tend to see each instrument differently and to meet a musical purpose I have in mind. Last week I passed on a prime condition HB I had cash in my pocket to cover - because I have four big boxes and wanted a little AE box - so I happily marched out with an AE Epi EL00 Pro. Had I had a house fire and lost the big boxes, yeah, I'd have jumped on the Bird and would have paid whatever needed to add AE ability - and still been under $2,000. If I'm happy with the little Epi, btw, it may end up with a Gibson sister. The bottom line to this rant, I guess, is that if you think something has significantly changed the sound of your guitar, take it to a decent shop unless you're a qualified luthier. Otherwise... there are so many factors involved in having a good quality gigging instrument - or having an instrument that's more a matter of pride for other factors, that I'm not going to badmouth anyone's decisions. And... I'd rather listen to Kottke on an Epi than the average evening fingerpicker on a Gibson. I'll wager the "tone" will be rather better from Kottke's pickin' regardless. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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