Kasper Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Looks like Gibson will make a 355 now. http://www.andertons.co.uk/semi-hollow-amp-hollow-body/pid34330/cid670/gibson-es355-limited-run-semi-acoustic-guitar-in-antique-cherry.asp In the text it says it has a thinner and lighter body than the 335. I didn't know that. I thought it was just a bling 335. It also have richlite fretboard. I like that, but I guess some wont. Was there ever any consistency with regards to the guitars being equipped with vibrato and varitone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyj Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 The 355 has the same body as a 335: Andersons have presumably made a mistake here, unless Gibson have done something horrible. The centre block on vintage examples of 355s and 345s is cutaway to allow installation of the varitone harness, which might reduce the weight a little - but but the time you throw in the choke for a varitone and a Bigsby you usually end up with a heavier guitar than a 335. Other differences are extra purfling on the body, Ebony board with block inlays, binding and purfling, large headstock with Les Paul Custom style inlay, vibrato as standard, and the stereo / varitone options (355TD was mono, 355TDSV had stereo wiring and Varitone control - initially it was manufactured in both versions, later the TD was special order only although lots of mono versions exist from throught the 60s). Yes, the vibratos follow a consistant pattern, allowing for a little overlap and the fact a Bigsby was offered as an option on special order guitars long after it was discontinued as standard. The Bigsby came first, then the side to side vibrato, then the short Maestro with the Ebony base plate, then finally the Lyre. The Lyre was standard from 64-79 so is by far the most common on vintage 355s. Stop bars were generally available as special order, although a few batches of 355s with factory stop bars were made right at the end (1979-1981), and many of the recent reissues have stop bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I'm not so sure that the description is 100% correct. Or maybe it's not too clear. Plus, I was just going to ask Gibson how that whole "getting gray market fretboard woods on the cheap" thing's working now? Who's outsmarted now? What's it like having to use countertops on your high end instruments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 I'm not so sure that the description is 100% correct. Or maybe it's not too clear. Plus, I was just going to ask Gibson how that whole "getting gray market fretboard woods on the cheap" thing's working now? Who's outsmarted now? What's it like having to use countertops on your high end instruments? I think richlite is great. My Midtown has it. Really smooth. The B.B. King model has it too. Ebony is an endangered species, so I think it is a good thing that they use something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyj Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Generally speaking I think it's a great thing for manufacturers to be experimenting with alternatives to traditional materials. On the other hand I have a bit of a problem with Richlite on 355s, LP Customs etc as they're marketed as luxurious, deluxe models with a great heritage and - where as you might make a exception if the model required something like Brazilian RW which is very hard to source if you're trying to buy more than a few boards at a time - it really shouldn't be difficult for Gibson to source a steady supply of all the materials required to make the models as it has was in the early days. I can't honestly say I can feel the difference between Richlite and Ebony (half the playing surface of a 355 is MOP anyway) and I'm sceptical about anyone who can hear the difference, but it just doesn't look the same and for the price this guitar costs I'd want it to be perfect. I doubt we've heard the full story as far as Gibson vs the Feds is concerned, and who knows what is going on behind the scenes at Gibson, but nobody else in the US seems to have run out of legitimate Ebony sources so it's hard to see why even low production, high end reissues of golden era models can't be made with Ebony. But the Midtowns and similar, Richlite works great and I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I doubt we've heard the full story as far as Gibson vs the Feds is concerned, and who knows what is going on behind the scenes at Gibson, but nobody else in the US seems to have run out of legitimate Ebony sources so it's hard to see why even low production, high end reissues of golden era models can't be made with Ebony. But the Midtowns and similar, Richlite works great and I'm all for it. For me you hit the nail on the head with the quote above. We are not talking of thousands of guitars with ES355 reissues. The entire run would likely be no more than a thousand and quite likely less. Both the ES345 and ES355 were never exactly popular. Something I am at a complete loss to understand but it is a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevDavidLee Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 ...Plus, I was just going to ask Gibson how that whole "getting gray market fretboard woods on the cheap" thing's working now? Who's outsmarted now? What's it like having to use countertops on your high end instruments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I saw that RIchlite on the Lucille. I would love to own an ES355 but it would have to be ebony. I don't know what they're thinking but no sale to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted June 16, 2014 Author Share Posted June 16, 2014 I saw that RIchlite on the Lucille. I would love to own an ES355 but it would have to be ebony. I don't know what they're thinking but no sale to me. I think that is very sad. Richlite looks, feels og sounds great. I don't believe ebony can be that much better. (I haven't tried it though). It is like insisting on your piano keys being made of ivory on an expensive piano. Which is more important: Having a great instrument or having a great instrument made of scarce resources? Did the 355 always come with ebony or did it also come with rosewood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Nobody knows exactly what happened with Gibson and the Feds, but, I spent my whole career being a regulatory consultant working for regulatory scofflaws (the bad guys) on the other side of the table from the government. I know how this stuff works. I'm just making an educated guess here, but I'm guessing that Gibson signed a consent agreement with the Feds. I'm guessing that the government agreed (among other things) not to prosecute anybody at Gibson criminally, and at the same time Gibson agreed (among other things) not to use any ebony. Gibson also agreed to the stuff that they announced publicly, like paying $300,000 to the wood conservation guys. To avoid criminal prosecution of certain key people involved in what went on. Lets just call him Hank. So I'm guessing that Gibson will not be using any ebony for a certain period of time. Maybe a few years, maybe forever. The government knows what it's doing. They know how to hurt people and they're smarter than Gibson. Everybody knows that Gibson makes traditional instruments using traditional materials. The government knows this and they know how to hurt a guy. I'm just making a very educated guess. It's the only scenario that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted June 16, 2014 Author Share Posted June 16, 2014 Nobody knows exactly what happened with Gibson and the Feds, but, I spent my whole career being a regulatory consultant working for regulatory scofflaws (the bad guys) on the other side of the table from the government. I know how this stuff works. I'm just making an educated guess here, but I'm guessing that Gibson signed a consent agreement with the Feds. I'm guessing that the government agreed (among other things) not to prosecute anybody at Gibson criminally, and at the same time Gibson agreed (among other things) not to use any ebony. Gibson also agreed to the stuff that they announced publicly, like paying $300,000 to the wood conservation guys. To avoid criminal prosecution of certain key people involved in what went on. Lets just call him Hank. So I'm guessing that Gibson will not be using any ebony for a certain period of time. Maybe a few years, maybe forever. The government knows what it's doing. They know how to hurt people and they're smarter than Gibson. Everybody knows that Gibson makes traditional instruments using traditional materials. The government knows this and they know how to hurt a guy. I'm just making a very educated guess. It's the only scenario that makes sense. Gibson still uses ebony on some models. e.g. http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Archtop/Gibson-Custom/L-5-Doublecut.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Hayden Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I'm not so sure that the description is 100% correct. Or maybe it's not too clear. Plus, I was just going to ask Gibson how that whole "getting gray market fretboard woods on the cheap" thing's working now? Who's outsmarted now? What's it like having to use countertops on your high end instruments? countertops is the best way I've heard it described Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Did the 355 always come with ebony or did it also come with rosewood? It was always ebony as standard (same neck as the Les Paul custom with the flat "fretless wonder" frets). My own preference is always for ebony. I don't think you can beat it as a fretboard wood. Ebony is highly dense and tough and far less prone to causing mistriggers in midi systems. Now while you may never use midi the fact that ebony is the best wood out there for "true note" midi triggering is telling us something about how a fretboard interacts with note production independent of the player (who of course makes the biggest difference) and the frets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyj Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I actually think Richlite is a great material for fingerboards. I don't have any experience of it on Gibsons but I've playedvand set up many Martins with the Richlite board and bridge and they're just fine. I'm a believer in play the frets, not the fretboard and to be honest unless the fingerboard has a thick lacquer I don't notice too much of a difference in feel to the various fingerboard materials. Tonally I can understand that it makes something of a difference, but particularly on an electric guitar I can't imagine it's that great and in a blind test I don't know if I could reliably pick ES-355s apart from ES-345s or 335s with Rosewood boards, let alone Richlite. In terms of appearance, Richlite is fine from a distance but it doesn't have the luxurious look of Ebony up close, which is my only real dislike about it. As I've already said, it's a shame when reissuing a classic guitar design not to use the period correct materials when they should be easy enough to source, and I'm a little suspicious as to why Gibson have gone down this route particularly when the controversy over the raid continues to rage. If Gibson would simply say 'look, hands up, we made a mistake, trusted someone we shouldn't have or whatever went wrong and as a result we have an issue getting Ebony at the moment' I think people would be more tolerant of these changes in spec, but it's all still a bit of a mess at the moment. Fortunately my 355 needs are met at the moment so it's not an issue for me - but I'd like to think if I were looking for one and the new reissue sounded and played as I'd hope, the Richlite would be a minor irritation rather than a deal breaker though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 The government knows what it's doing. They know how to hurt people and they're smarter than Gibson. Everybody knows that Gibson makes traditional instruments using traditional materials. The government knows this and they know how to hurt a guy. I was going to post my theory on all of these shenanigans with the Feds and Gibby,, but I figured I'd avoid the lock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Gibson has great customer service. They make great guitars. They just don't handle their public relations well. Instead of making some kind of believable rational statement about the issue, they just keep whistling past the graveyard and saying stuff that's fishy. People can smell this stuff a mile away. What kind of company tries to jam stuff down their customers' throats, like Richlite, no nibs and Min-E-Tune without making some kind of rational believable statement about it? There's no way people are going to like Richlite as well as ebony. Richlite might be great but you're supposed to let the low end manufacturers figure out whether it's acceptable before you start using it on "traditionally made" high end instruments. Use rosewood. Rosewood is a higher end material than Richlite. If you can't use ebony, say so. Just say so. Don't BS us like you're a ten year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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