mojoworking Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Hi guys and gals. This is my first post so please be gentle with me. I recently picked up a 2003 Custom Shop SG 1961 and while it looks almost brown in normal light it has some strange patches of cherry here and there. When I removed the scratch plate I was shocked to see the original rich cherry colour underneath. I've attached some pictures with the scratch plate removed to demonstrate the extent of the fading. My question is this: is it normal for an SG to fade so drastically to brown in just eleven years? And has anyone else experienced this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Sorry bro, looks like it hung in a window for a long time, especially if the back is less or not faded at all. I didn't think shops did that after the 70's, but I guess I was wrong. Might want to contact the seller, tell them you are unhappy. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjsinla Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Yes, the cherry red does fade over time and sunlight can he send that process I believe. My cherry 59 Jr looks like this and I keep it in the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojoworking Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 That's the weird thing. It's pretty much faded to brown all over front and back except for some odd patches of cherry (including one on the back of the neck - see extreme left in the bottom pic). This is how it looked in the store. Before I go back there I thought I'd check if anyone else had experienced this fading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 huh. That is odd. Like the cherry toner wasn't mixed right or something. You could certainly expect some fade, but that just doesn't look right. Beats the crap outta me, I would return it. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 If it plays and sounds like a dream. luv it! If it's unsatisfactory in any other way, then I'd dump it... But if it inspires you with passion to play it for how it feels and sounds, then luv its character... It's a little rough on the eyes up close an' personal, but I've seen worse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojoworking Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share Posted September 11, 2014 Thanks guys, your comments are appreciated. The SG plays like a dream and I love it. Re. the fading. I'd expect it if it were an original 1961 guitar, but it's a 2003 model and call me naïve, but I wouldn't expect to see this much on a 10/11 year-old example. Or are the VOS Custom Shop guitars designed to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sg50 Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 The sun turns newspaper yellow in days, it has a similar effect on nitro finishes. That guitar has probably seen a lot of sunlight, or it's been exposed to material that reacts to the finish like polystyrene or latex. (eg styrofoam and surgical tubing/surgical gloves). If you want a finish that will outlive you, look for a poly finish instead of nitro, they are much more stable, but they don't crack and chip as nicely as a nitro finish. If the guitar is a player, then play it. The finish will get worse as you drop it, bang it and scratch it. It will gain mojo. If it's a show piece, then consider asking yourself if you really want to be a museum curator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Interesting! Certainly makes it "unique!" What's the "back story" on it, do you know? The "odd" fading patters, especially on the back, could indicate either some water damage to the finish, or possible a chemical spill? (Just possibilities, not definite!) If there is no "Structural" damage, and/or warping, and you love it, otherwise...keep it! You can always have it refinished, in Nitro, to the proper color, at any time. Any good competent Luthier can do that for you, or Gibson Restoration could as well. Though shipping it from Australia, to Gibson and the cost of them doing the "restoration" would probably be prohibitive? Anyway, good luck, whatever you decide. Cheers, CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 If it plays and sounds like a dream. luv it! If it's unsatisfactory in any other way, then I'd dump it... But if it inspires you with passion to play it for how it feels and sounds, then luv its character... It's a little rough on the eyes up close an' personal, but I've seen worse... ^^^^ Just that. Red dyes are the ones usually affected most by light. I never have seen such a pattern before though, obviously depending on previous storage conditions. Since mine are in their cases if not actually played, even the Roadstar Red finish on my 1986 Ibanez RG 430 looks like new colourwise, other than her severely darkened natural satin finished back of the maple neck. I know some older cherry SGs of my pals. They all show faded colours more or less, some brownish, some greyish. There's no yellowish one among them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Thanks guys, your comments are appreciated. The SG plays like a dream and I love it. Re. the fading. I'd expect it if it were an original 1961 guitar, but it's a 2003 model and call me naïve, but I wouldn't expect to see this much on a 10/11 year-old example. Or are the VOS Custom Shop guitars designed to do this? The VOS dyes mostly are more sensitive to light and will fade much faster. Assumed her being a VOS guitar due to featuring an ABR-1 bridge. If I may dare a pun: There's mojo working! By the way, none of the above mentioned guitars of my pals are VOS models, so it's not a wonder their more modern dyes react differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojoworking Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 The VOS dyes mostly are more sensitive to light and will fade much faster. Assumed her being a VOS guitar due to featuring an ABR-1 bridge. If I may dare a pun: There's mojo working! By the way, none of the above mentioned guitars of my pals are VOS models, so it's not a wonder their more modern dyes react differently. Thanks for that capmaster. Yes, it's a VOS. Just to clarify. I don't mind the fading at all. It's the lack of uniformity in the fading that puzzles me, not to mention the patchiness. When my guitar store rang me to say they had a 2003 VOS SG in stock they described it as "brown". But it clearly was cherry originally and there are patches of cherry still on the body (as well as under the pickguard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaicho8888 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Faded cherry heritage is normal and good! From the pictures, it looks like it's in excellent shape...almost unplayed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Faded cherry heritage is normal and good! From the pictures, it looks like it's in excellent shape...almost unplayed! Isn't it a wonder? This axe bathed in the sun for years, and even the tarnish comes from not being touched. All kidding aside, the bridge, the bridge pickup and its mounting screws say that it probably is broken-in well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojoworking Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Faded cherry heritage is normal and good! From the pictures, it looks like it's in excellent shape...almost unplayed! It's in great nick, but there are plenty of signs of wear on the back. Not exactly deep belt buckle wear, but scratches and dents all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbomb76 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Unfortunately, this is one of the side-effects some of us predicted back when Gibson started making "faded cherry" (or as I prefer to call it, "translucent orange") the standard finish on their "Historic" SG's. It's partially due to natural UV reaction to the dyes and lacquer, but when you cheap-out on pore-filler and apply the finish thinner than an original 60's model would've had, you accelerate the process by a factor of 10. My advice, if you're otherwise liking the guitar, is to play the hell out of it until you can't stand to look at it, and then pay a luthier who knows how to apply a nitro finish the old-school way (aka: properly) to give her a makeover. That's what I did to my 2007 one (which I bought used, and it had a stoptail, which had to go). Much better instrument, even with the slabby, historically-inaccurate horn tips: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojoworking Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 Thanks Hbomb. Appreciate your reply. I wonder how far Gibson's famous "Lifetime Guarantee" stretches in cases like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojoworking Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 Duplicate post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbomb76 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Thanks Hbomb. Appreciate your reply. I wonder how far Gibson's famous "Lifetime Guarantee" stretches in cases like this? No problem! Guarantee? That's the tricky part. I'm sure they'll say "that's just the nature of the finish" and write it off. Problem I have with that is that you see too many vintage 60's SG's that have obviously been played but have NOT faded terribly like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojoworking Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 No problem! Guarantee? That's the tricky part. I'm sure they'll say "that's just the nature of the finish" and write it off. Problem I have with that is that you see too many vintage 60's SG's that have obviously been played but have NOT faded terribly like that. I was hoping for something like this ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojoworking Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Here's the latest on the faded SG. I couldn't stand to look at it any more so it's gone for a complete re-finish. I'll post pictures when I get it back (6 weeks is the time frame, it seems). Hopefully it will come back looking like a '61 SG Les Paul VOS should look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 A 6 weeks time frame sounds sensible to me. I cross my fingers for you, and post pics, please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojoworking Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 A 6 weeks time frame sounds sensible to me. I cross my fingers for you, and post pics, please! Thanks capmaster. I'm hoping for something like this (without the side-to-side tremolo, naturally) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Depending on wood, it may turn out slightly brighter or darker, but I think your expectation is pretty close. I'm curious about the result and cross my fingers for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvercrow Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I'm at work and our filter blocks many pictures- so I don't see your "reference" picture. BUT if you go on "Chris' Guitars" website and look through the "Just In" page (it's tedious, be warned) you will come upon an ad for a faded finish Les Paul Studio that Chris asked his luthier / repair person, Martin, to re-finish in Nitro. WOW! It is phenominal! If I were a braver person, I'd have tried to refinish mine- using "Reranch" or Stew Mac products, but I am not. At one point I contacted a local guy who specializes in refinishing guitars. He quoted me a price of $900.00 (!!), I'm pretty sure to put me off as he was not interested in doing it. I didn't pursue it any further and ended up trading mine away and have an SG now I absolutely love. Please do post your pics when completed!! Also check out that beauty on Chris' website- no affiliation, I'm just a guy who has dealt with him and am very impressed. Those pics ought to satiate you until your beauty returns! BEST WISHES! Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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