skilsaw Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Maybe it's just a myth that there are any myths? I mythed the bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Myths are delusions that make us comfortable with reality. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdclmn7 Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 Tune your guitar with harmonics. Adjust the intonaion of the 1st string against its octave off the 2nd string. (fretting high B aginst it correspong octave on the 2d) Using the same principal do the others. Always continue to retune to harmonics before and after adjusting. You will now end up with accurate fretted notes in the higher register. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Paul Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Because the scale is tempered according to a root - the 12th - of 2, only 2nd, 4th, 8th, 16th and so on harmonics can match on theory and have to be obeyed in practice including their aberrations. Any real adjustment and tuning will have to be stretched, according to the principals of the Railsback curve. They apply to any string and wind instrument. Electronic oscillators are a different story - their exacting harmonics make them sound as "sterile" as they do. There's $10 in it for anyone who can explain to me in basic english what he just said here! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Paul Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Tune your guitar with harmonics. Adjust the intonaion of the 1st string against its octave off the 2nd string. (fretting high B aginst it correspong octave on the 2d) Using the same principal do the others. Always continue to retune to harmonics before and after adjusting. You will now end up with accurate fretted notes in the higher register. $5 here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Paul Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Myths are delusions that make us comfortable with reality. Cheers... Bence This I understood perfectly! (lol). (Pete didn't do the conversion to his '54) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Because the scale is tempered according to a root - the 12th - of 2, only 2nd, 4th, 8th, 16th and so on harmonics can match on theory and have to be obeyed in practice including their aberrations. Any real adjustment and tuning will have to be stretched, according to the principals of the Railsback curve. They apply to any string and wind instrument. Electronic oscillators are a different story - their exacting harmonics make them sound as "sterile" as they do. There's $10 in it for anyone who can explain to me in basic english what he just said here! LOL! There's no pure interval except octaves on theory, and in practice even those are stretched. An open A5th's fundamental is 110 Hz, but the 2nd harmonic will be slightly more than 220 Hz, the 4th slightly more than twice the 2nd and so on. This, however, sounds natural to us - the behaviour of the human voice is similar. Then there is the principle of all common fretboard designs called equally tempered scale. All pure intervals except octaves are sacrificed. A tempered fourth is slightly sharp, a tempered fifth slightly flat. Tempered thirds and sixths are severely impure and will cause significant beats. These relations are pretty obvious through a high-gain rig. Correct standard tuning of a sixstring guitar through using harmonics is possible only for E6th and E1st. This will even incorporate the stretching between 4th harmonic of E6th and fundamental of E1st since you will automatically tune the E1st appropriately sharp. A5th, D4th, G3rd and B2nd forcibly call for fretting when tuning by ear. Neither fundamentals nor any harmonics will match any other harmonics on a guitar. This trade-off is the basic deal of equal temperament. Finally, perfect tuning will always be evenly stretched across all the strings, the shorter scale and the lighter string gauges, the more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8_4thesh0w Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 There's no pure interval except octaves on theory, and in practice even those are stretched. An open A5th's fundamental is 110 Hz, but the 2nd harmonic will be slightly more than 220 Hz, the 4th slightly more than twice the 2nd and so on. This, however, sounds natural to us - the behaviour of the human voice is similar. Then there is the principle of all common fretboard designs called equally tempered scale. All pure intervals except octaves are sacrificed. A tempered fourth is slightly sharp, a tempered fifth slightly flat. Tempered thirds and sixths are severely impure and will cause significant beats. These relations are pretty obvious through a high-gain rig. Correct standard tuning of a sixstring guitar through using harmonics is possible only for E6th and E1st. This will even incorporate the stretching between 4th harmonic of E6th and fundamental of E1st since you will automatically tune the E1st appropriately sharp. A5th, D4th, G3rd and B2nd forcibly call for fretting when tuning by ear. Neither fundamentals nor any harmonics will match any other harmonics on a guitar. This trade-off is the basic deal of equal temperament. Finally, perfect tuning will always be evenly stretched across all the strings, the shorter scale and the lighter string gauges, the more. Think they'll ever make a fan-fretted LP? It's a logical attempt to create a curved response within a straight line. A lot of makers are seemingly taking to this "advancement" and many players seem interested. NAMM had quite a few displayed and demonstrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Think they'll ever make a fan-fretted LP? It's a logical attempt to create a curved response within a straight line. A lot of makers are seemingly taking to this "advancement" and many players seem interested. NAMM had quite a few displayed and demonstrated. Nothing but sham packages. Just snake oil for making money. I don't think that all the music of the past will have to be re-recorded using those "proper" instruments. There are myriads of strings available which perform great on all the great guitars ever made. Setting up, tuning and playing is all it takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 It all comes down to seeking perfection where perfection doesn't exist. Sometimes you gotta say "that's close enough". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 It all comes down to seeking perfection where perfection doesn't exist. Sometimes you gotta say "that's close enough". And most existing guitars with most existing strings allow for coming pretty close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Heck, I play a Telecaster with only THREE saddles....what was Leo thinking??? I know exactly what he was thinking. It was being able to make some degree of adjustment tempered by tooling, end user's ability, cost.... a compromise at best but one that seems to have worked out just fine for 65 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Many players have forgiven Leo and still do. He wasn't a guitar player. By the way, my Teles came with six saddles stock. I like that, and it's also best with Fishman piezos. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Paul Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 It all comes down to seeking perfection where perfection doesn't exist. Sometimes you gotta say "that's close enough". You've obviously heard me play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 If you heard ME play, you'd justify your avatar pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Paul Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8_4thesh0w Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 It all comes down to seeking perfection where perfection doesn't exist. Sometimes you gotta say "that's close enough". You've obviously heard me play. "That'll do, Pig." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdclmn7 Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 whoops, wrong thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2PoFoAGibSon Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 1425502710[/url]' post='1636108']I feel this post. My Grandfathers shop was very much similar. I DO remember the woods I found, wondering what some were, wondering what I might do with them. And, I did actually contemplate making a guitar more than once. Thing is, that is the past. And because it is, the fact that times are what they are now we could not know. For your mental drooling, one thing he had in fair abundance was a supply of highly figured birdseye Maple veneer. About 3/16 thick, and LOTS of birdeye to it. I mean, like spaced 1/2 inch to an inch apart the whole of each piece. And as flamey as you are likely imagining it is. When the Birdseye is that close together..is is referred to as LACE BURL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 When the Birdseye is that close together..is is referred to as LACE BURL... I think that's only if was cut from a burl. Not sure but that's always what I've thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I think that's only if was cut from a burl. Not sure but that's always what I've thought. That made me wonder....and so I checked. Or at least I tried to check... Bird's Eye Maple doesn't seem to have to have been sourced from a 'burr' (or 'burl' as our continental cousins say). It can be found in healthy trunks/roots unlike burrs which can only be sourced from affected trees. There seems to be a lack of consistency on the Web (surprise surprise) but it would be interesting to hear from an experienced timber merchant on this one. And apologies in advance to 2PoFo if he is (or has been/worked with) a timber merchant and is talking through experience in the matter! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 If you use the words "Burled Maple" and "Birdseye Maple" you mean two different things, and they are not interchangeable. Birdseye can run the entire plank length, it is coveted by some for furniture reasons. When I was a kid it was frowned upon for guitar necks because it interferes with the grain structure and makes it weaker. I am not a luthier or wood expert but I do play one on the internet. In the 90's it got super hot to have birdseye on the neck, and folks naturally took it to mean theirs was better than everyone else that didn't have birdseye. That's how it started, and no more to it. Burl is that big chunk of mess, usually near the bottom of the tree. Not huge planks made from it, but plenty of ply available as it is thick, usually. Not neckable in size I don't think. I'm happy to be wrong, this is just memory of a long time guitar person here. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Mysteriously indeed. Given the development of sciences in general, the lack of reliable informations on burl/bur/burr wood is astonishing. There seem to be lots of theories about fungi, viruses or other foreign particles, but nothing certified so far. It's also assumed that birdseye figuring found in trunks of sugar maple (Acer saccharum) is something different. Not obvious from appearance, it is rather found accidentally through problems when cutting the logs. I think this is what 2PoFoAGibSon referred to. However, this doesn't mean the cause has to be different. Perhaps curious botanists will do DNA research and chemical analysis on that subject one day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 If you use the words "Burled Maple" and "Birdseye Maple" you mean two different things, and they are not interchangeable. Birdseye can run the entire plank length, it is coveted by some for furniture reasons. When I was a kid it was frowned upon for guitar necks because it interferes with the grain structure and makes it weaker. I am not a luthier or wood expert but I do play one on the internet. In the 90's it got super hot to have birdseye on the neck, and folks naturally took it to mean theirs was better than everyone else that didn't have birdseye. That's how it started, and no more to it. Burl is that big chunk of mess, usually near the bottom of the tree. Not huge planks made from it, but plenty of ply available as it is thick, usually. Not neckable in size I don't think. I'm happy to be wrong, this is just memory of a long time guitar person here. rct Bingo. Have been typing while you posted - I could have saved half of my words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 HEUREKA!, would have said Archimedes. OK, he didn't use the web then... Doing research on German websites, I found a bacteria species referred to as causing mutations in plant DNA resulting in tumours called Maserknolle in German, meaning burl. I link the English Wikipedia page about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrobacterium_tumefaciens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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