signal processors

[merciful-evans]

Digital tone.

 

Anyone here use a signal processor? Beit in your amp, a rack or a floor unit?

I do, and have done for about 16 years.

 

In my younger days I used Selmer Treble & Bass head and other tube gear.

 

I design my tone using a Line 6 Pod HD400. Before that I used a Boss GT5. In the studio I use a Boss recorder with GT6 editable patches on board.

For gigs an elderly Fender Stage 112SE is slaved to the Pod. I have also started using a new Fishman Loudbox Artist for smaller gigs (both these are solid state).

 

The amp, speaker and FX models used are authentic. However they don’t behave like the hardware they emulate. This is where the limits of the signal processor show. It’s possible to remedy this with additional modified tone/patches (and other linked hardware) but it’s not like performing with a ‘regular’ amp.

 

To clarify what I mean by ‘behave’. If using an acoustic guitar simulator, it will of course sound just like an acoustic guitar. If though you wanted to attack the strings hard (like Bert Jansch fingerpicking or Ritchie Havens strum) the change in tone (strings slapping against fretboard) would not occur. You will get something similar because your own guitar is contributing to the sound, but the patch itself will only become louder.

 

It would be interesting to hear if anyone uses digital gear through tube amps. Thats a dynamic I have not experienced.

[capmaster]

I use digital FX since the mid-1980's, and digital amp emulation since mid-2001.

 

...

It would be interesting to hear if anyone uses digital gear through tube amps. Thats a dynamic I have not experienced.

I have done this for more than ten years. The left output of my Behringer V-Amp with the speaker simulation set off has been fed to my Acoustic G60T top which I used as a poweramp only. However, the G60T's Poweramp In jack called for circa 3.5V RMS, too much for the V-Amp's out, so I used the guitar input, clean channel, and tone controls set to flat.

 

One has to know the setting meaning flat on typical passive tone controls: Treble set to 0, Mid Range to 10 out of 10, Bass to 3 out of 10. Most amps without a midrange control don't allow for a flat setting.

 

Since about four years I use a basically same Behringer V-Amp Pro and a Behringer A 500 solid-state stereo poweramp.

 

My speaker setup is unchanged since nineteen years. In 1996 I put the two of my early-1980's Electro Voice EVM 12L Series II speakers from piggy-back cabinets into two Marshall 1912 speaker enclosures. They now have twice the weight compared to being fitted with the stock Celestion G12B-150's. Until now I left the two holes on each of the 1912's front panels open but still think about either sealing or mounting bass reflex tubes.

[Searcy]

I have almost always used some sort of digital or solid state signal processing especially when recording or playing bass. My main amp is a Roland VGA-7.

[BobF_]

I have a BOSS GT-001 (desktop 100) and a Zoom R24 that both have really solid amp/cab modeling. The GT goes all the way thru the chain with mics and is very good for voice, bass and acoustic recording too..

 

ITB I like Guitar Rig and Amplitube both as well as some unique to Sonar provided by Anderton.

[jdgm]

Still have one left, a Boss SE70. Earlier this year I powered all my remaining processors and racks up - because they were so old they sounded bad; 8-bit A/D-D/A conversion.

Sold everything except the SE70. But I'm not using it anymore.

So that's another thing to put on ebay!

[surfpup]

Flirted with this RP1000 as a gig rig for a while, but I really missed the amp "feel". Lately I've gone back to my tube amps and the RP is sitting in the bag. Great practice tool - if I ever start practicing again.

 

[stein]

Nope.

 

I started playing in the 80's, when rack mounts and processors were the thing. Wanted them, used them, but soon discovered that buying the actual amps was cheaper than buying the effects that simulate them. (they were at the time).

 

I also noticed, and still, that playing the real amps is a much more satisfying, and pleasing thing to me. While effects and simulations can be fun, there is much more to be found and appreciated in playing the amp than the simulation.

 

Also noticed, some time ago, listening to others who use simulations, while being good guitar players, I tend to listen and enjoy less. The sound gets tiring faster. Compared to seeing a guy with just an amp. The band or the music seems to capture my attention longer, without feeling wore-out from listening, or feeling I want to turn my attention elsewhere.

[capmaster]

...

 

I also noticed, and still, that playing the real amps is a much more satisfying, and pleasing thing to me. While effects and simulations can be fun, there is much more to be found and appreciated in playing the amp than the simulation.

 

Also noticed, some time ago, listening to others who use simulations, while being good guitar players, I tend to listen and enjoy less. The sound gets tiring faster. Compared to seeing a guy with just an amp. The band or the music seems to capture my attention longer, without feeling wore-out from listening, or feeling I want to turn my attention elsewhere.

My favoured way of listening to my own guitar playing is through a full-range acoustic guitar system with all EQs flat, regardless if piezo, single coil or humbucker sound.

 

I suffer most listening fatigue from excessive use of chorus effects. My approach is applying a small amount of the modulated signal only, typically 15 to 25%. Next to all stomp boxes produce a fixed 50/50 blend producing the maximum effect, i. e. allow for all or nothing only. I use these tones very rarely. To my feel they create too much wobbling and waving and thus mainly blur the guitar, bass, keyboard or whatever sound.

[stein]

My favoured way of listening to my own guitar playing is through a full-range acoustic guitar system with all EQs flat, regardless if piezo, single coil or humbucker sound.

 

I suffer most listening fatigue from excessive use of chorus effects. My approach is applying a small amount of the modulated signal only, typically 15 to 25%. Next to all stomp boxes produce a fixed 50/50 blend producing the maximum effect, i. e. allow for all or nothing only. I use these tones very rarely. To my feel they create too much wobbling and waving and thus mainly blur the guitar, bass, keyboard or whatever sound.

Brings back sweet memories.

 

One of my first "real" rigs was a Roland JC-120 paired with a Twin Reverb. I used a Ernie Ball combination volume/balance pedal to split and "adjust" the mix between them. What a SWEET sounding rig that was. I think almost everything sounds better with a JC-120 somewhere in there maybe.

 

One thing I think I remember, was at first using that sweet sounding chorus, and more and more balancing the sound to have less of the JC-120. Eventually, I didn't use the chorus effect hardly, but rather just the straight sound, and getting a chorus-LIKE effect from the fact the JC-120 and a Fender amp together react differently enough to fill out the sound. I DO remember for sure, getting the footswitch for the JC so as to be able to turn the effect off.

 

Eventually, THAT rig, for what I was doing and using it for, was too much. Too heavy, not really needed, while I got into smaller amps (also for the sound). The JC stuck around for a long time though, often used as a slave for nearly EVERYONE regardless of what they were playing. Almost like a PA.

 

All in all, very similar to your approach I think.

[merciful-evans]

I use digital FX since the mid-1980's, and digital amp emulation since mid-2001.

 

 

I have done this for more than ten years. The left output of my Behringer V-Amp with the speaker simulation set off has been fed to my Acoustic G60T top which I used as a poweramp only. However, the G60T's Poweramp In jack called for circa 3.5V RMS, too much for the V-Amp's out, so I used the guitar input, clean channel, and tone controls set to flat.

 

One has to know the setting meaning flat on typical passive tone controls: Treble set to 0, Mid Range to 10 out of 10, Bass to 3 out of 10. Most amps without a midrange control don't allow for a flat setting.

 

Since about four years I use a basically same Behringer V-Amp Pro and a Behringer A 500 solid-state stereo poweramp.

 

My speaker setup is unchanged since nineteen years. In 1996 I put the two of my early-1980's Electro Voice EVM 12L Series II speakers from piggy-back cabinets into two Marshall 1912 speaker enclosures. They now have twice the weight compared to being fitted with the stock Celestion G12B-150's. Until now I left the two holes on each of the 1912's front panels open but still think about either sealing or mounting bass reflex tubes.

 

That's some rig Capmaster. Sounds as if this is an ongoing process of refinement for you.

Once I put together patches I created 16 years ago I never touched them again. As for variation. I only use a line out to the the PA from the slaved 112 SE on occasion.

 

 

On constructing tone patches.

 

Most agree that all of the onboard (default) ones are pretty useless. In fairness, a couple of the Pod clean ones could be usable.

 

Essentially the patches provided are mostly there to demonstrate the range of the units. Try to use any at a gig and they are too rich. The higher gain ones will lose clarity and will likely induce feedback. They can be edited & made gig ready by altering the EQ and backing off all the FX.

[capmaster]

Most sounds I use I created from the scratch between 2001 and 2003. Next to all I created later are tweaked to different songs, guitars and pickup selections. It's still important to have a load dump for backup in case I'd be late on changing the CR2032 battery cells keeping the memory alive.

 

Without a computer, I did all my sound creations using my Behringer FCB 1010 MIDI pedal. It takes about a minute for creating a single of over fifty parameter settings on a trial and error basis. There are only ten controls accessible at the unit itself, but there can be more than twenty ones active when using multiple effects. All those not accessible on the top respectively front of the unit can't be edited live though.

 

I also agree with your opinion on most factory presets. They are made to impress when playing alone for oneself but of next to no help in a band context.

 

The only very change of setup has been the step from desktop V-Amp/tube amp top to 19" V-Amp/solid-state stereo poweramp in late 2011.

 

However, meanwhile I use lots of hybrid guitars and operate an additional full-range Schertler JAM 150 acoustic amp. It is featuring a ground-lift switch, so I don't have any ground loop problems.

 

I simply can't understand why not every acoustic guitar amp has this. Most of them call for an isolator box when used in a hybrid setup. This may have contributed to the discontinuation of such a fantastic guitar model like the Fender Nashville Power Telecaster. Maybe the Gibson SG Supra didn't catch on due to its steep price. Between early 2013 when I bought mine and now, the Gibson Alex Lifeson Les Paul Axcess went up from 3.6k€ to 5.3k€ here... <_<

[merciful-evans]

The Boss GT5 quit on the last gig of 2014 when our bass player tipped my soda water into it.

 

The replacement Pod is hard to program until you link it to a PC and use Line 6’s software.

 

After having the Pod a few days I built one lead tone from the ground up. It took more than 3 hours of trying every combination of amp and pre-amp available, using different EQ & gain combinations.

Then I tried out all the cab & mic options. Finally I did the same thing with the reverb units.

 

The result was the best lead tone I had ever used. I played the rest of the day away spellbound. I had deliberately minimised all EQ, gain and reverb in anticipation of using it at gigging volume (Live always sounds richer).

 

A while later I tried this out in a studio environment, and it was 98% spot on. I only had to back off the treble by a couple of increments. The next gig using a line out the PA confirmed those settings as right.

 

All this was done using the single coil neck pickup on my primary gigging guitar.

Afterwards, I cloned the patch for use with my other (3) working guitars and fine tuned the settings for each guitar individually. Again it was done for the neck pickups exclusively.

 

Only after buying the small Fishman Loudbox Artist did I realise that I might have to begin all over again. The Fishman is an acoustic guitar amp. I chose it for clarity and its FX loop. Used through that, my favoured patches sounded stark with a bias toward the highs (there is tweeter in this amp).

 

With it being nearly 10 months since making my ‘good’ tone patch, I really couldn’t remember the choices I had made (its saved on my PC), but decided again the build a new sound from scratch once more. I would then compare it to the original.

 

I did this on Sunday and was amazed at how I had almost exactly made all the same choices. The only differences were the choice of mic, the reverb depth, and an increase of the amps bass level.

The Fishman can’t be slaved (using its own inputs), so some further EQ choices are made there also, but they are mostly set to neutral.

 

This tone can’t compete with Jimmy Herrings or Joe Bonamassa’s (Jimmy's tone is to die for!) but its more than justified the cost of the Pod for me.