skilsaw Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Pick Guard peeled on an SJ-200 purchased for my son in 2014. I called the Gibson Dealer I bought the guitar from to see what they suggested. Take it to a luthier was their suggestion. Then the salesman on the phone suggested the best guy in town. No reason. The intriguing thing was he did not suggest that their own technicians. Is this some kind of joke? But the recommended luthier is good. When he had a retail outlet, that was my store. Now he is strictly repairs. So I took it to the best guy in town. "Yes, this is a problem I have seen before. I don't recommend attaching the old pick guard again... Gibson uses a soft flexible plastic pick guard on those models and it will just curl up again. New improved pick guard being installed by someone else... by the person the local Gibson Dealer recommended. Thanks for the hot tip, Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Posted 13 August 2016 - 01:20 PM The pick guard peeled of the top of my son's SJ-200. Actually, it started to lift and I just coaxed it off. Nitro-cellulose Finish underneath is pristine. All glue off and used a bit of Fender Custom Cleaner to make it totally ready for re-applying the pick guard. So, what do you figure? Elmer's? Epoxy? Contact Cement? Absolutely not!!! What would be the correct adhesive? I have some super thin and transparent double sided tape that may do the trick, and it may not. What do the pros use? Also, there is tons of glue on the back of the pick guard. I'm trying a little mineral spirits on it right now. If that gets 99%, I'll probably finish the glue removal with iso propyl alcohol to get it totally clean before applying new glue. If that doesn't work, what do you suggest? I don't want to hurt the paint on the top of the pick guard. Or would the best approach would be to take it back to the dealer and have them send it to their luthier? SKILSAW - I CUT AND PASTED YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION FROM YOUR EARLIER THREAD ABOVE.Not sure I understand how much of the p/g was lifting, as opposed to how much you peeled off. There have been threads here before of some having very small gaps. My SJ200 has one at a curve you could barely slip the corner of a piece of paper under. I left it, because I'd have to peel it back more to slip a small piece of double sided tape under it. I never notice it or think about it. As far as your luthier's comment "This is a problem I've seen before." I'd not put too much weight in that - after all, luthiers only have guitars with problems brought to them, and probably one of the top ten problems is the p/g lifting, gapping or - in cases of vintage guitars - falling off due to dried glue. You said he advised against using the original p/g. Did he replace it with a Gibson-sourced exact replacement? You mentioned this problem in a couple of threads - some helpful comments included cleaning the guitar and the old p/g off with naphtha or lighter fluid and getting an adhesive sheet designed exactly for this from StewMac. Some suggested you take it to a luthier. Both were viable alternatives. Glad you're happy with the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skilsaw Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 I guess you are right. I am a picker of a different sort. maybe the curling and lifting of the pick guard was inconsequential and should have been left alone. As a kid, I couldn't leave a scab alone and had to pick and peel them off. On occasion, I even picked my nose until it bled. It is hard to change old bad habits. Either that, or the luthier has fixed the pick guard on a few Gibsons. He said he had the 3M adhesive sheets and could re-attach the stock pick guard but he recommended a new stiffer pick guard that wouldn't curl at the edge. The Gibson dealer recommended I take the guitar to this luthier, not their own technician and from my experience, he is the best in town. I'm happy. Picking up the guitar tomorrow. There is that work "Pick" again. Sort of cosmic, isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I've got a 2016 I got in March, some how, after reading previous post about this... I've been ... waiting... for this to start on mine. when/if... I'll remove it, and leave it off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I've got a 2016 I got in March, some how, after reading previous post about this... I've been ... waiting... for this to start on mine. when/if... I'll remove it, and leave it off... I am looking to get one also, not too happy to hear about the pick guard issue. Can you tell me how many pieces of abalone are on your bridge? Is there a pair of abalone between your bridge pins and the saddle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 . I've got one of those "flubber" guards on my 2008 J-200. Got a coupla spots that lift a tad - top corner next to the neck and the bottom outside curve on the lower bout. When I take it out of the case I just press 'em both down and they stay down while play which could be a coupla hours. Not a big deal for me, but I can understand those that get frustrated with it. The issue was pointed out many times here when Gibson first came out with those "flubber" guards. Seemed to be the top layer of "flubber" would soon start to shrink while the bottom layer with the design on it would remain stable cause some curling. It would've been nice if Gibson had sought out a better "flubber" formulation over all this time - heck, the guitar is listing over $4K new these days. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Can you tell me how many pieces of abalone are on your bridge? 2 Is there a pair of abalone between your bridge pins and the saddle? yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I agree BK the guitar is listing over $4K new these days. actually, they are "COSTING" over 4k.... the MFG list price is quite a bit higher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Can you tell me how many pieces of abalone are on your bridge? 2 Is there a pair of abalone between your bridge pins and the saddle? yes What model do you have? If you have abalone between the pins and the bridge it seems you should have 2 pair of abalone, one pair between the pins and bridge and another pair behind the pins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 What model do you have? If you have abalone between the pins and the bridge it seems you should have 2 pair of abalone, one pair between the pins and bridge and another pair behind the pins. SJ200 (standard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 SJ200 (standard) Okay, very nice, but you don't have abalone between the pins and saddle, that would be the 2 pair design. How is your string balance with the pickup system? I just found out my 2016 J-45 custom has the 2 E strings quite dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I'm not sure the designation with the inlays, what sets one apart from the other, I guess I'd like to know that now that you've pointed it out. Regarding pickup balance, I use the pickup quite a lot, with headphones, the pickup is the Bags Element.. It doesn't have the output that some of my fishmans do, but the string balance (to my ears) seems to pretty consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 . Kid blast - check comment #8 and below on this thread - http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/132083-2016-sj-200/ . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 ah ! Thanks BK, good reference point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 I now have a new Western Classic, it does not have a "Flubber" pickguard but the edges are very slightly lifting. It is thick though, it has binding applied around the edge of it. I think the issue with the lifting is due to this thickness and the contours of the top. What I am talking about is the up and down contours of the soundboard as it flexes from string tension. On my pickguard the middle of the pickguard is a depression which forces the edges of the pickguard to slightly lift as the pickguard cannot follow the contour because of its thickness. The problem is putting down a new one and having it follow these contours, you may get air pockets or it may lift again. Look at your top in reflected light, you can clearly see where the top flexes toward the sound hole from the strings pulling the bridge. (I think the higher your break over angle is the more flex there may be, I seem to have a lot of flex despite having the 4 ribbon bridge with a low break over angle, but I digress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 . Actually Gibson puts a radius on the top - it's not flat. Put a straight edge across the top and you'll see it. I would imagine that this is the source of some of the incidents of pickguard edge lifting, particularly on thicker guards like the flubber guards, and the 'custom' style guards like that on the Western Classic. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafy31 Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 . I've got one of those "flubber" guards on my 2008 J-200. Got a coupla spots that lift a tad - top corner next to the neck and the bottom outside curve on the lower bout. When I take it out of the case I just press 'em both down and they stay down while play which could be a coupla hours. Not a big deal for me, but I can understand those that get frustrated with it. The issue was pointed out many times here when Gibson first came out with those "flubber" guards. Seemed to be the top layer of "flubber" would soon start to shrink while the bottom layer with the design on it would remain stable cause some curling. It would've been nice if Gibson had sought out a better "flubber" formulation over all this time - heck, the guitar is listing over $4K new these days. . Same for me on a 2015 hummy. One corner of the flubber pickguard slightly raises, but i just press it down and it stays in place. However i have another problem with it, the 2 parts of the guard are separating on the edges causing bubbles. Have to pay attention to see it, but still it is annoying considering the price tag of these guitars. Gibson has proposed to change it for me, but as it is not critical yet, i am a bit afraid to get it repaired. I fear problems may reappear later, or to get something worse at end... If it was for a different/new pickguard maybe i would have it done. I'd like to have feedbacks from people who asked gibson for a replacement to make sure that it is the right thing to do. Curl : Bubbles... extend slowly around the edge... the clear parts of the edge are due to bubble, not reflecting light: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 . Actually Gibson puts a radius on the top - it's not flat. Put a straight edge across the top and you'll see it. I would imagine that this is the source of some of the incidents of pickguard edge lifting, particularly on thicker guards like the flubber guards, and the 'custom' style guards like that on the Western Classic. . Yes I know there is a radius. What I am talking about is the deflection in a guitar's top from string tension. Look at your guitar's top with reflected light. Take your guitar on a sunny day in your house with no lights on and look at a window reflected in your guitars top. Move the window around in the refection and look at the tops contours. They dip down in front of the bridge. This is why my pickguard has a depression in the middle of it that is forcing some of the edges to slightly lift off of the top, the thick pickguard cannot conform to the flexible top. It is that simple. I may try to inject some adhesive under these areas to try to get it to stay down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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