Alex Lifeson ES-355

[enduroexpert]

 

You're not speaking on behalf of anyone else who bought the guitar - only yourself. Do you really think there's an explanation other than it's a trivial design mistake that doesn't affect the sound' date=' playability or look of the guitar?

 

Since you keep asking the same question over and over and keep getting no answer from Gibson, why not just re-read the middle part of the thread over and over?

 

We love the guitar. Alex FREAKING Lifeson loves the guitar. Time to move on. QED.[/quote']

 

I'd imagine your the type of person who got repeatedly bullied the whole way through your school days......

 

I love the guitar like I said, the volute doesn't hinder my playing whatsoever but I'll keep asking the same question cause its not been answered. I'll keep the guitar forever, but I still got a defective instrument from a company who got a whole heap wrong with it across the 300 sold and can't just give a straight answer to an extremely simple question.

 

If that bugs you so much "turkeyT", stop biting..... the *!%* up.....

[Staxman]

It would be nice to hear directly from Alex or the neck's designer on this, but I have a theory on why the volute (assuming it is not a mistake and Alex wanted/approved it) exists and is unlike any other volute on the planet.

 

Anyone who has followed Alex's career, and most here are I'm sure Rush fans or else they wouldn't be here, knows that Alex has never been one to stay the norm. He goes wherever he needs or wants to on his guitars to achieve what he wants to get out of them at the time. I mean seriously, he had the original 355 mutilated and put a Kahler on it!!! It was an experiment that failed, obviously, but it tells you he is not afraid to go "where no guitar designer has gone before" and doesn't cater to the notion that you "can't do that to that guitar". I believe it is entirely possible and probable that Alex had a lot to do with the volute and chose it for his own reasons. Gibson had to have given him some choices and a chance to approve or reject them. Can't you imagine someone as pioneering as Alex saying, "well this is different, but you know I like the way it forms to my hand in the first position so let's go with it".

 

This is, of course, speculation. But bottom line is that it is an Alex Lifeson model, and if he was given design latitude and chose/approved the volute, then so be it. It is what it is and I don't hold that against him or Gibson because I personally love the guitar and don't mind the volute's position at all from a playing standpoint.

 

What Gibson screwed up here IMO was not making a flawed guitar, but rather changing the design from it's inspiration while setting the expectation that the guitar would be a close replica of the original, instead of "well it looks a lot like the original and has many similar features but there are some new design twists and here they are"....before you spend your money on it.

 

One last point on the volute, then I am done with this topic (and there was much rejoicing :-D). Those of you who are bashing it without having actually played the guitar, do not assume that it makes the guitar useless. Perhaps for some with a unique hand position it is an issue, but truthfully you can play the AL-355 just fine with the volute where it is. Pictures make it look like an uncomfortable obstacle, but for me it has no effect at all on my playing, and obviously it doesn't bother Alex. I did not see him grimace in pain once or miss any notes when he played his examples on the recent tour. And we already know he has no problems mauling guitars. If he didn't like the volute it would be carved off by now.

[Custom Admin]

 

but I still got a defective instrument

 

the guitar is not defective.

[Wondo]

 

the guitar is not defective.

 

 

Some did get defective guitars (e.g., binding issues, paint bleed, poor etching on tailpiece, electronic issues, crooked tuning keys, trem arm, etc.). Although, I would agree, that with Gibson's offical statement of the artist approving the guitar, it is not defective, but I would also say that it is not the "painstaking recreation of this iconic instrument" that we were all promised.

[turkeyT]

 

I'd imagine your the type of person who got repeatedly bullied the whole way through your school days......

 

I love the guitar like I said' date=' the volute doesn't hinder my playing whatsoever but I'll keep asking the same question cause its not been answered. I'll keep the guitar forever, but I still got a defective instrument from a company who got a whole heap wrong with it across the 300 sold and can't just give a straight answer to an extremely simple question.

 

If that bugs you so much "turkeyT", stop biting..... the *!%* up.....[/quote']

 

Hey, man! I've come through for you, BIG TIME. I got the answer you're looking for! Please see the letter received from MR. GIBSON HIMSELF!

 

Dear friend,

 

Sorry to hear about your disappointment with our instrument. We had a little design screwup on our end. Remember that scene in Spinal Tap where they mixed up feet and inches on the Stonehenge triptych? Well, we did that with inches and centimetres! LOL! Our bad! I'm glad you concede it doesn't impact your playing at all.

 

Signed,

MR. GIBSON

 

 

Well, that settles that! Now you can sleep at night. YOU'RE WELCOME.

[Custom Admin]

 

Some did get defective guitars (e.g.' date=' binding issues, paint bleed, poor etching on tailpiece, electronic issues, crooked tuning keys, trem arm, etc.). Although, I would agree, that with Gibson's offical statement of the artist approving the guitar, it is not defective, but I would also say that it is not the "painstaking recreation of this iconic instrument" that we were all promised.[/quote']

 

and most of those issues would be covered under warranty if people actually wanted them addressed.

[Custom Admin]

 

Remember that scene in Spinal Tap where they mixed up feet and inches on the Stonehenge triptych?

 

**** the napkin!

[turkeyT]

 

Some did get defective guitars (e.g.' date=' binding issues, paint bleed, poor etching on tailpiece, electronic issues, crooked tuning keys, trem arm, etc.). Although, I would agree, that with Gibson's offical statement of the artist approving the guitar, it is not defective, but I would also say that it is not the "painstaking recreation of this iconic instrument" that we were all promised.[/quote']

 

Word came out well before the guitar did that the neck would be a standard 60s neck and thus very different from Alex's original neck. I wasn't under any illusion that this would be an exact copy.

[PJLCC14]

 

Word came out well before the guitar did that the neck would be a standard 60s neck and thus very different from Alex's original neck. I wasn't under any illusion that this would be an exact copy.

 

Well then....that explains that! So what model in the 1960's had the volute in the same position that it is on the AL........seeing that the neck would be a standard 60's neck?

 

What's really quite comical now' date=' is why can't Customer Admin, out direct connection to Gibson, not get an answer on the simple question of "why".

 

Lets be clear about this.....Alex Lifeson, the musician who plays in the band Rush, did not spend his time in Memphis or Nashville Gibson Design offices, (I'm going out on a limb there, huh). I just don't see with his touring and recording schedule, where he had a couple of months to kill in Tennessee. Somebody at Gibson "designed" the prototype........and on that guitar, the volute was relocated away from the standad position that Gibson has used......forever. So can we not get a simple answer from the designer on why the volute is where it is?

 

I agree CA....paint, binding, etching, tuners, pick-ups, etc......thats all quality control issues that Gibson needs to resolve internally, and fix thru Warranty Programs. But when asked, by the customer, why a guitar is designed a certain way......especially when it is a clear design departure from what the company has ever done in the past, a straight and forthcoming answer is expected by your consumer.

Usually when Gibson changes a guitar spec or design characteristic.......lots of Gibson PR money is spent to advertise the new innovation........but in this case.....nothing. Only a Gibson statement that "Alex approved it, so thats the end of it" answer. Well, thats just not good enough. I think we all realize that Alex approved it, no arguement here.

But the question is, [b']WHY[/b] was it designed that way?

 

Cheers

PJL

[Custom Admin]

 

 

What's really quite comical now' date=' is why can't Customer Admin, out direct connection to Gibson, not get an answer on the simple question of "why".

 

[/quote']

 

comical is not the word i'd use, but OK.

[turkeyT]

 

But the question is' date=' [b']WHY[/b] was it designed that way?

 

Cheers

PJL

 

Check earlier in the thread for the answer from Mr. Gibson HIMSELF! Your troubled mind will be put at ease at last.

[LerxstLee]

Hi All ( or some ) ,

 

All of this and I have kept my mouth shut .

Yet , would someone explain why the " unfinished template " AND

the neck that someone used to compare a different AL-355 Neck

are different ?

I have been quiet I deserve a cookie or the like !

 

Right click open in news tab

Looks like there is another yet " aproved " Volute position

 

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/RareFormMusic/DSC00186compred.jpg

 

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/RareFormMusic/template-1SB.jpg

[LerxstLee]

Hi All ( or some ) ' date='

 

All of this and I have kept my mouth shut .

Yet , would someone explain why the " unfinished template " AND

the neck that someone used to compare a different AL-355 Neck

are different ?

I have been quiet I deserve a cookie or the like !

 

Right click open in news tab

Looks like there is another yet " aproved " Volute position

 

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/RareFormMusic/DSC00186compred.jpg

 

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/RareFormMusic/template-1SB.jpg[/quote']

 

I wonder why I held that until now ?

Uhg , I thought I stopped posting too !

[LerxstLee]

 

I wonder why I held that until now ?

Uhg ' date=' I thought I stopped posting too ! [/quote']

 

LerxstLee wrote:

Hi All ( or some ) ,

 

All of this and I have kept my mouth shut .

Yet , would someone explain why the " unfinished template " AND

the neck that someone used to compare a different AL-355 Neck

are different ?

I have been quiet I deserve a cookie or the like !

 

Right click open in news tab

Looks like there is another yet " aproved " Volute position

 

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/RareFormMusic/DSC00186compred.jpg

 

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/RareFormMusic/template-1SB.jpg

[enduroexpert]

 

the guitar is not defective.

 

 

Binding, F- Holes, Trem Arm just a start.........and I know warranty covers them if I lived in the USA...!!!

 

Still, why is the volute there....?

[enduroexpert]

 

Word came out well before the guitar did that the neck would be a standard 60s neck and thus very different from Alex's original neck. I wasn't under any illusion that this would be an exact copy.

 

Tell me whats standard 60's with the volute again.....?

[enduroexpert]

 

and most of those issues would be covered under warranty if people actually wanted them addressed.

 

....and some get completed ignored.

 

Why is it there again.....?

[Custom Admin]

 

....and some get completed ignored.

 

Why is it there again.....?

 

i have not ignored your questions about the volute. i have asked and asked and asked about it, and the answers i have given here are the answers i've gotten. believe me...no one here is asking "how high?" when i say "jump!"

 

you don't like the answers...fine, i get that. you don't like the volute...fine i get that, too.

 

my point is that unless the few of you who are still bent about this issue elect to try a different route to get this design question answered (and that's why i posted the company directory for you...twice), then as far as i am concerned the matter is resolved. Further, continued posting of the same questions over and over and over again isn't getting any of us anywhere. so, as i said recently...enjoy the guitar for what it is, or sell it and move on with your life.

 

I'm going to let these 2 threads stay open until Friday. at that time, i will be locking them, and any new threads on this topic will be deleted. not because i am trying to suppress discussion about this topic, but because everything that's going to be said about it has been covered in the 50 pages of posts already on this forum.

[Custom Admin]

 

Binding' date=' F- Holes, Trem Arm just a start.........and I know warranty covers them if I lived in the USA...!!!

 

[/quote']

 

in other words...you somehow missed these issues when you went IN PERSON to pick up the guitar (issues that should have been apparent with even a cursory examination), and now you are going to complain about them and the fact that even though you ARE covered under warranty, that warranty is just too inconvenient for you implement.

 

stick with the volute issue...at least you have a legitimate question there.

[enduroexpert]

 

i have not ignored your questions about the volute. i have asked and asked and asked about it' date=' and the answers i have given here are the answers i've gotten. believe me...no one here is asking "how high?" when i say "jump!"

 

you don't like the answers...fine, i get that. you don't like the volute...fine i get that, too.

 

my point is that unless the few of you who are still bent about this issue elect to try a different route to get this design question answered (and that's why i posted the company directory for you...twice), then as far as i am concerned the matter is resolved. Further, continued posting of the same questions over and over and over again isn't getting any of us anywhere. so, as i said recently...enjoy the guitar for as it is, or sell it and move on with your life.

 

I'm going to let these 2 threads stay open until Friday. at that time, i will be locking them, and any new threads on this topic will be deleted. not because i am trying to suppress discussion about this topic, but because everything that's going to be said about has been covered in the 50 pages of posts already on this forum.

[/quote']

 

Fair comments C.A.

 

Thanks for all you've done anyways. I did follow various other routes to absolutely no avail and didn't get ivolved with discussions for a while back there, like I said plenty times before its a keeper, I love it. It would have been nice to get an answer through one source or another but without getting arrested doing so it ain't never going to happen so I'm letting it lie...

 

.....but please don't shut the thread, it'll develop into a much more positive environment from now on I'm sure plus its got some interesting history (yes and repetetive......)

 

Cheers

 

Johnny

[enduroexpert]

 

in other words...you somehow missed these issues when you went IN PERSON to pick up the guitar (issues that should have been apparent with even a cursory examination)' date=' and now you are going to complain about them and the fact that even though you ARE covered under warranty, that warranty is just too inconvenient for you implement.

 

stick with the volute issue...at least you have a legitimate question there.[/quote']

 

Thought that may bite my in the @ss......

[Custom Admin]

 

Thought that may bite my in the @ss......

 

:}

[PJLCC14]

I'm going to let these 2 threads stay open until Friday. at that time' date=' i will be locking them, and any new threads on this topic will be deleted. not because i am trying to suppress discussion about this topic, but because everything that's going to be said about it has been covered in the 50 pages of posts already on this forum.

[/quote']

 

CA....I realize you are the go between on communication here, and as the old saying goes, don't kill the messenger! Thanks you for your attempts to find answers. But you should realize, that alot of us did use your directory information, and ran into brick walls.....one after another. At least this venue was producing some sort of answers......maybenot the ones we wanted to hear....or that made sense.....but responses none the less.

 

I am really concerned that if you close this thread......that pretty much follows the Gibson Customer Service script that we have run into so far......just another brick wall.

 

I would suggest that maybe you could go another route for us....maybe show this thread to the Brand Manager, the Marketing Manager, and the Customer Service Manager........at least they will be aware that the system is not working, when it comes to getting the customer some answers. And if I know PR people, they'll start asking the right people in the company some questions that need answers to.

 

Please reconsider the thread closing......some of us really don't need anymore brick walls!

 

Cheers

PJL

[Custom Admin]

 

But you should realize' date=' that alot of us did use your directory information, and ran into brick walls.....one after another.

[i']Good to know that some of you at least made the effort...[/i]

 

I would suggest that maybe you could go another route for us....maybe show this thread to the Brand Manager, the Marketing Manager, and the Customer Service Manager........at least they will be aware that the system is not working, when it comes to getting the customer some answers.

 

i will give some thought to leaving the thread open...but just so you know, the people you have listed are aware of what's going on as are MANY others within these 4 walls, and yet HERE we are still at square 1 after several months of discussion. Which is why i feel like continued discussion is not really going to result in any new info...

 

Cheers

PJL

[LerxstLee]

let me start by saying i am from a different era. I heard of Alex' date=' but never heard him or his band play. and i won't bore you with how it was in the old days when you went to the music store to buy a guitar. i own many gibson guitars, they are good, attention to detail has suffered during various periods but they are making some nice guitars over the past several years.

 

However, this whole issue on this volute is a bit absurd. the neck of the guitar is kinda like where the rubber meets the road so to speak, and to me the neck and the size of the frets, the feel etc. i will never get to plug anything in if i don't get the feel first. i just hang it up and move on. So the neck is like highly important.

 

today internet buying is partly to blame for buying things unfelt, tried etc. and gibson's policy of not allowing pictures, much less from all angles exacerbates this whole experience. i am sure all those who have purchased this guitar and still have a major issue with the volute (i would) are going to be extremely skeptical of future purchases and not just from gibson. (probably not a bad thing).

 

those that say it is ok, are still going to be skeptical, because lets face it they have done a certain amount of rationalization to finally, somewhat, accept this design. did anyone who bought it actually know the volute was in the playing area. Or does/did gibson's spec sheet say "neck profile rounded with volute between the nut and the first fret. this would be important, since it is such a departure from normal building, at least like scale length, 24 3/4, 23 and 1/2 etc.

 

It is at least an unwelcome surprise, most would say a hindrance, somewhat like the goal post being on the 10 yard line, but you still got to get to the end zone to score. i love 3X5 guitars, they just feel right size, most of the necks, tone, versatility for me it is the best design for, jazz, rock, blues, loud or soft, controllable feedback, versatility, etc. I like the look of the AL 355, why i even like and have used a varitone for 46 years.

 

gibson, alex and i guess even buzzy have somewhat of a vested interest in holding the line on this issue. But believe me you will never convince me (you really don't have to), the majority of purchasers of this model, guitar players in general that this was actually designed to be the way it is. (maybe miss designed). Why because it serves no practical purpose other than to hinder the guitars playability. i am afraid common sense has to be the bottom line here. so every time gibson, or others say anything to support this design/miss design/mistake it is just ignorant and actually insults our intelligence.

 

i learned a long time ago if you screw up, fess up, don't perpetuate and defend a position that is really, (for those of us with common sense) not defendable.

 

I have always been treated fairly by gibson, especially the custom shop, but i must say i am very disappointed in gibson's position on this. Gibson's artist relation guy says " Alex are you sure you want to put the volute in this area, we have never nor has any manufacturer of guitars ever done this, because it will hinder the playability and even your original that we are copying dose not have the volute there. Alex what purpose would this serve?

 

If this wasn't even asked, why? We are not talking about pups, strings, color, fake aging, cigarette burns etc. We are talking about basic correct/playability construction of an expensive custom shop guitar.

 

So what could gibson do? Issue a recall, take a number [u']if you are not satisfied[/u] because we realize this is a major issue you can return the guitar and we will rework the volute area ( i am not a luthier, hopefully this is practical) and eliminate the bump in the playing area, refinish the guitar etc. and return it to you at no cost.

 

this seems resonable to me.

 

 

 

peace

 

Coming from a " Non AL-355 " user or anyone else . Great post .