Dodging a Bullet

[NighthawkChris]

Hi,

Recently, I picked up a 1995 Nighthawk CST3 in fireburst used, and I didn't like it... The price was around $1300 (before tax and shipping) - came with a beat up OHSC and all that... The thing that bothered me about it was that I was cleaning it up during a restring, and something didn't look right. I started to notice that the ebony fretboard was POORLY scraped by someone who previously owned it with a razor blade or something (you can see where the blade vibrated on the sides near the neck binding, the lines in the between the frets on the board that weren't scraped out, and the finish that chipped away on the neck due to scraping)... On top of that, the nut was poorly cut and filed too deep - I mean you the strings were in deep grooves and the "top" of it was visibly wavy. Of course, the open strings that were too deep were buzzing badly too. To boot, the frets were all square-like and didn't have much life left on them to do a dressing. I have a couple other CST3s and their frets are not as worn down, and I can tell when a guitar has frets near the end of their life. I have had a refret done before, and I know what they looked and felt like before I decided to do this on one of my "beloved" guitars in the past.

 

All in all, to fix this up, going to need a new nut, and a refret where the neck is 100% bound. The entire fretboard will need sanding prior to refretting to get rid of the wavy ebony streaks (again, from the idiot who decided to scrape with a razor blade on a Gibson Custom guitar with a once beautiful EBONY board). I personally do not do these things (refretting, sanding, or cutting nuts), so it would cost me a few hundred more at least to get this thing to be able to be played. Luckily, I got my money back - minus shipping of course - and I can live without it.

 

The positives on this were the finish and HW were in great shape and the truss rod worked fine, so it is not a total loss on this guitar after the things I mentioned were complete. Not getting into a "nibs" thing, but when you refret, getting the "nibs" is something not guaranteed, haha!

 

So I really (really) like Nighthawks - especially the fancy ones - and I wanted a NGD event, but I believe I made a good choice here ditching this one off. I figure I can just squirrel away that money and wait for another guitar I like to come up down the road. I mean, for $1300, that's a good deal for this guitar that is in the excellent condition like claimed, but not for me who knows the real issues that this guitar has. Just glad that the return was seamless and I can look forward to something else in the future that is in better condition - i.e. won't take hundreds more to make playable.

 

Anyone have experiences of dodging a bullet, please feel free to share. I for one am happy that I have my money back, haha! Best regards.

 

[Big Bill]

I returning it was a good move. For awhile I thought you bought a dead horse. Maybe you could have cut a deal and have the guy refund you about $700 and you could have fixed it up?

[NighthawkChris]

I returning it was a good move. For awhile I thought you bought a dead horse. Maybe you could have cut a deal and have the guy refund you about $700 and you could have fixed it up?

 

Hi Big Bill,

I bought it with GC, and there is virtually no negotiating with them on their used stuff - been my experience. I have tried to negotiate with this guitar to clearly show the issues, but they apparently want to push their used stuff on the shelf until it sits there long enough for them to warrant reducing the price. Someone out there will get this guitar, and if they pay what I paid, it's not a good price per my explanation. But someone will fall for the bait... I actually think someone did already, because it is not on their site anymore, and usually it has been my experience when I return something used, I see it on their site very shortly afterwards. Well good luck to them I say.

 

[bigtim]

I have been there too. My friend went to a pawn shop and texted me a picture of a 2006 Gibson Firebird 7. Red with the maestro trem arm, 3 pick ups, gold hardware, it looked great from the pics he sent me although he is not a guitar player himself and he did not hold it in his hands and all. So, I called them up because it was over an hour drive for me and I talked to the guy over the phone. I asked him to go over to it while I asked the guy on the phone some questions. His answer to me was the guitar was in perfect shape and there was nothing at all wrong with it.

 

So I went and got the cash and headed up there the next day. When I got there I immediately went over to it and took a good look. The man I talked to over the phone was not there and another guy was. The gold hardware was faded and pitted, chips in the paint on the edges and the back of the guitar looked like it had been beaten with a baseball bat wrapped up in barbed wire. I had never saw strings so rusted on a guitar my whole life. Apparently the guy needed his eyes checked or he did not even go over to the guitar when I was on the phone with him. The guy helping me apologized about the condition and said he did not know his co worker said it was flawless. Then there was a big spot on the back of it that looked like the finish had somehow heated up and bubbled and went back down. I asked the guy if he had the case for it and he went and got it. I opened it and immediately upon the case being open the whole pawn shop smelled like cat piss. That did it for me and I left.

 

So yes I was fired up at the idea of a firebird 7 all decked out with the large maestro trem and everything but I sure dodged the heck out of that one!

 

[NighthawkChris]

So I decided to call GC and let them know WHY I returned the Nighthawk. I explained everything I claimed in my initial posting, and they decided to take $200 off the price - making this guitar $1100. I initially started the bidding @ $900 being that to refret and replace the nut is going to be expensive. I declined to accept the $1100 and said that the guitar isn't worth that much... The way GC does business is this way. They know the guitar has the issues I said, yet they are trying to sell this guitar overpriced knowingly and some person will get the guitar at the price they list it at - or $1100 if they are lucky apparently.

 

Really not even interested in buying @ $900 even because my ship has run out of steam here on this guitar. I don't hate on GC (wait for it...), but some things about how they do business is a pain in the rear end, and the fact that they have to play hard ball with one of their customers (me) who spent big bucks on their crap for years - over a few hundred bucks that makes the guitar correctly priced. Instead, they want to let it sit on the shelf for the buyer willing to pay $1300 for this abused guitar.

 

Honestly, GC really has been letting me down. When I go in there, their employees are condescending, don't care what you want, and get a whole load of attitude and just plain rudeness. These guys just don't like the customers by default. They aren't experts, and they act like they are all day long, and when you offer some expert advice/information, they don't give a crap... That place demands you spend top dollar on overpriced stuff, and yet it is so impersonal to most customers - my experience YMMV. I for one am NOT a pain in the tail customer. I don't argue with them, ask simple questions... I know what I want and go in the store for what I want when I do, and even that you deal with employee personalities that are anything but becoming. This whole situation is more irritating than it is about the guitar, because I just want to be done with this store forever. I have only one guitar shop near my house that is worth a damn, and the surrounding GC's (in the triangle of death) in the metro Detroit area have demolished the other stores that were around.

 

Yeah, corporations and capitalism... 2 great things, huh? Just another number to them... Whatever, at least I didn't get ripped off or hooked into this mess. As I said, I gave the honest fair price of the guitar, so they can sell it to someone with the money they want to get their greedy hands on. No loyalty, only money. F... GC in their A.. $900 is the fair price. They know it, and I know it... They could have had a sale, but they want to wait it out for someone else - and they lost a customer for life.

[bigtim]

Well if your into a night hawk and want one pretty bad, I know where one is for sale in Spring Hill TN at a place called Bluesman Vintage guitars in was on consignment. I played it a month or so ago and almost purchased it myself. You could give them a call and see if they still have it. It had some finish wear on it but it really played nice. I think it was about 1000 bucks or something.

 

 

 

 

So I decided to call GC and let them know WHY I returned the Nighthawk. I explained everything I claimed in my initial posting, and they decided to take $200 off the price - making this guitar $1100. I initially started the bidding @ $900 being that to refret and replace the nut is going to be expensive. I declined to accept the $1100 and said that the guitar isn't worth that much... The way GC does business is this way. They know the guitar has the issues I said, yet they are trying to sell this guitar overpriced knowingly and some person will get the guitar at the price they list it at - or $1100 if they are lucky apparently.

 

Really not even interested in buying @ $900 even because my ship has run out of steam here on this guitar. I don't hate on GC (wait for it...), but some things about how they do business is a pain in the rear end, and the fact that they have to play hard ball with one of their customers (me) who spent big bucks on their crap for years - over a few hundred bucks that makes the guitar correctly priced. Instead, they want to let it sit on the shelf for the buyer willing to pay $1300 for this abused guitar.

 

Honestly, GC really has been letting me down. When I go in there, their employees are condescending, don't care what you want, and get a whole load of attitude and just plain rudeness. These guys just don't like the customers by default. They aren't experts, and they act like they are all day long, and when you offer some expert advice/information, they don't give a crap... That place demands you spend top dollar on overpriced stuff, and yet it is so impersonal to most customers - my experience YMMV. I for one am NOT a pain in the tail customer. I don't argue with them, ask simple questions... I know what I want and go in the store for what I want when I do, and even that you deal with employee personalities that are anything but becoming. This whole situation is more irritating than it is about the guitar, because I just want to be done with this store forever. I have only one guitar shop near my house that is worth a damn, and the surrounding GC's (in the triangle of death) in the metro Detroit area have demolished the other stores that were around.

 

Yeah, corporations and capitalism... 2 great things, huh? Just another number to them... Whatever, at least I didn't get ripped off or hooked into this mess. As I said, I gave the honest fair price of the guitar, so they can sell it to someone with the money they want to get their greedy hands on. No loyalty, only money. F... GC in their A.. $900 is the fair price. They know it, and I know it... They could have had a sale, but they want to wait it out for someone else - and they lost a customer for life.

[bigtim]

They have a facebook page too and it was on there as well if you want to take a look.

[Retired]

So I decided to call GC and let them know WHY I returned the Nighthawk. I explained everything I claimed in my initial posting, and they decided to take $200 off the price - making this guitar $1100. I initially started the bidding @ $900 being that to refret and replace the nut is going to be expensive. I declined to accept the $1100 and said that the guitar isn't worth that much... The way GC does business is this way. They know the guitar has the issues I said, yet they are trying to sell this guitar overpriced knowingly and some person will get the guitar at the price they list it at - or $1100 if they are lucky apparently.

 

Really not even interested in buying @ $900 even because my ship has run out of steam here on this guitar. I don't hate on GC (wait for it...), but some things about how they do business is a pain in the rear end, and the fact that they have to play hard ball with one of their customers (me) who spent big bucks on their crap for years - over a few hundred bucks that makes the guitar correctly priced. Instead, they want to let it sit on the shelf for the buyer willing to pay $1300 for this abused guitar.

 

Honestly, GC really has been letting me down. When I go in there, their employees are condescending, don't care what you want, and get a whole load of attitude and just plain rudeness. These guys just don't like the customers by default. They aren't experts, and they act like they are all day long, and when you offer some expert advice/information, they don't give a crap... That place demands you spend top dollar on overpriced stuff, and yet it is so impersonal to most customers - my experience YMMV. I for one am NOT a pain in the tail customer. I don't argue with them, ask simple questions... I know what I want and go in the store for what I want when I do, and even that you deal with employee personalities that are anything but becoming. This whole situation is more irritating than it is about the guitar, because I just want to be done with this store forever. I have only one guitar shop near my house that is worth a damn, and the surrounding GC's (in the triangle of death) in the metro Detroit area have demolished the other stores that were around.

 

Yeah, corporations and capitalism... 2 great things, huh? Just another number to them... Whatever, at least I didn't get ripped off or hooked into this mess. As I said, I gave the honest fair price of the guitar, so they can sell it to someone with the money they want to get their greedy hands on. No loyalty, only money. F... GC in their A.. $900 is the fair price. They know it, and I know it... They could have had a sale, but they want to wait it out for someone else - and they lost a customer for life.

 

I can understand your frustrations. I bought several guitars and gear at GC in the past. They have one guy there thats pretty knowledgable but he's not always there. The last one I bought, a 12 string, they just wouldn't work with me. They didn't have a 12 string Seagull in the store and wanted full price plus tax in advance just to order one for me. I asked, "What if I don't like it when it comes in?" First, this was a used Seagull they were going to order. There was no guarantee I would get my full price cash back so I told them to take a hike. I went to Dietz Music from now on. They told me I could take home any guitar in the store for a whole month to play it anytime I wanted, no charge. One older guy told me just to call him, Uncle Ned. I buy my guitars and stuff there now. I heard too many bad stories about GC.

[NighthawkChris]

Hi bigtim,

Thanks for looking out! I appreciate it. Although, unfortunately I am in the market for the 90s style Nighthawks - specifically a fireburst CST3. That was what this guitar was that GC had to offer. But either way, I sincerely appreciate you sending a head's up on this. That model you referred me to I believe it was a 2000s model. I don't own any of these and never really had too much interest in these. I know for sure though they are different design in terms of electronics and even construction to some extent. As you said, you thought it was a great guitar, but I have yet to evaluate one of these late NH models.

 

Hi Retired,

Yeah, GC is just not a loyal company to their customers. They sold the guitar to someone else BTW real quick like and probably for asking price - or that "value" $200 off price... Don't matter though. Instead of making someone who has spent tens of thousands there over the years whether it be on keyboards, pro audio, guitars, accessories, etc., they want to get their greed on and sell an abused guitar for something it isn't worth for money and making me happy and probably guaranteeing a future purchase(s). I tried to buy it at asking price - paid to ship it and everything too. In the process screwing over one of their loyalest customers who just in the last couple years has spent nearly $10k on Custom Shop LP, new 18 USA Gibby, a used NH, and a new American Pro Tele... So that $400 better be worth it to them to play hard ball with me on an honest deal, because I won't spend another red cent there as long as I breathe. They better be happy with the individual who bought it, because that person took my place essentially as a replacement customer for life. I bet that thing will be relisted on their buggy website later on - unless someone has the skills to fix the issues I mentioned or they have no problem paying hundreds for a guitar that isn't worth anything but $900 at best...

 

Officially, I ban GC. They are a horrible company, and their business scheme is just awful. EVERY TIME I buy something, I have to go through a few guitars, accessories, whatever to get something that isn't just cheap s... or just straight up flawed. New goldtops with gouges in the finish and poorly pleked LP, new Telecasters with chips in the finish, Hot Rod Deluxe IVs that are just dog s... Can't win with these ****** bags. I hate dealing with the staff that are not considerate to customers who spend big bucks there and have no interest in making customers happy with their deal other than some impersonal return policy. Dealing with GC is cut-and-dry/black-and-white. They don't care about me, my happiness in what they sell me, nothing but MY MONEY.

 

Well, there are other options out there and I will explore those options for gear and such. I know where to go, but the fact that local guitar stores aren't around as much - probably because of the swarm of these corporate wh0res and their poorly managed stores - that sucks for me on that part. Online is "ok" option, and online guitar buying is riskier. It just sucks to deal with waiting and shipping when you want to get something without waiting a week or more - especially for a big or highly anticipated purchase. And shipping isn't free... I just detest big music store corporations. ALL of them will turn out to be the abomination GC has become once they get to that size. GC is the standard, and a poor one at that. Sweetwater isn't any better either... They stalk me on the phone for WHATEVER I buy, and their deals aren't that great. On top of that, their inspection isn't that great either. They have no problem shipping a LP to you that has issues too. Blah, blah, blah... They suck too. I'm just going to go to guitar shows, local ads, possibly Reverb or eBay, but not some corporation that will profit immensely off of my purchase. By those standards though, eBay support is not my favored option really. Reverb is sort of right there too, but not as bad because they aren't as big as eBay... but they'll get crappy eventually. They all do...

 

Forgive my angst against corporate interests and their policies/procedures. They just anger me because they don't care about anything other than their main premise - profit... and at any expense apparently. This is what big business has come down to, and it isn't going away unfortunately. Your patronage is not appreciated no matter how much you have supported any company. You always need more money to get their attention, and that's the way it will be. So F U GC, I hope you go underwater and for those working there, find a better job. That place has no future for you unless you are in the corporate side of it and like ripping people off selling over-priced Gibsons and Fenders and the like. And if you like ripping people off, then F U 2.

 

Whew... that felt like taking a big s... Had to get this rant out of my system. Appreciate the read, and good luck buying gear.

 

[FemmeParallell]

Hi bigtim,

Thanks for looking out! I appreciate it. Although, unfortunately I am in the market for the 90s style Nighthawks - specifically a fireburst CST3. That was what this guitar was that GC had to offer. But either way, I sincerely appreciate you sending a head's up on this. That model you referred me to I believe it was a 2000s model. I don't own any of these and never really had too much interest in these. I know for sure though they are different design in terms of electronics and even construction to some extent. As you said, you thought it was a great guitar, but I have yet to evaluate one of these late NH models.

 

Hi Retired,

Yeah, GC is just not a loyal company to their customers. They sold the guitar to someone else BTW real quick like and probably for asking price - or that "value" $200 off price... Don't matter though. Instead of making someone who has spent tens of thousands there over the years whether it be on keyboards, pro audio, guitars, accessories, etc., they want to get their greed on and sell an abused guitar for something it isn't worth for money and making me happy and probably guaranteeing a future purchase(s). I tried to buy it at asking price - paid to ship it and everything too. In the process screwing over one of their loyalest customers who just in the last couple years has spent nearly $10k on Custom Shop LP, new 18 USA Gibby, a used NH, and a new American Pro Tele... So that $400 better be worth it to them to play hard ball with me on an honest deal, because I won't spend another red cent there as long as I breathe. They better be happy with the individual who bought it, because that person took my place essentially as a replacement customer for life. I bet that thing will be relisted on their buggy website later on - unless someone has the skills to fix the issues I mentioned or they have no problem paying hundreds for a guitar that isn't worth anything but $900 at best...

 

Officially, I ban GC. They are a horrible company, and their business scheme is just awful. EVERY TIME I buy something, I have to go through a few guitars, accessories, whatever to get something that isn't just cheap s... or just straight up flawed. New goldtops with gouges in the finish and poorly pleked LP, new Telecasters with chips in the finish, Hot Rod Deluxe IVs that are just dog s... Can't win with these ****** bags. I hate dealing with the staff that are not considerate to customers who spend big bucks there and have no interest in making customers happy with their deal other than some impersonal return policy. Dealing with GC is cut-and-dry/black-and-white. They don't care about me, my happiness in what they sell me, nothing but MY MONEY.

 

Well, there are other options out there and I will explore those options for gear and such. I know where to go, but the fact that local guitar stores aren't around as much - probably because of the swarm of these corporate wh0res and their poorly managed stores - that sucks for me on that part. Online is "ok" option, and online guitar buying is riskier. It just sucks to deal with waiting and shipping when you want to get something without waiting a week or more - especially for a big or highly anticipated purchase. And shipping isn't free... I just detest big music store corporations. ALL of them will turn out to be the abomination GC has become once they get to that size. GC is the standard, and a poor one at that. Sweetwater isn't any better either... They stalk me on the phone for WHATEVER I buy, and their deals aren't that great. On top of that, their inspection isn't that great either. They have no problem shipping a LP to you that has issues too. Blah, blah, blah... They suck too. I'm just going to go to guitar shows, local ads, possibly Reverb or eBay, but not some corporation that will profit immensely off of my purchase. By those standards though, eBay support is not my favored option really. Reverb is sort of right there too, but not as bad because they aren't as big as eBay... but they'll get crappy eventually. They all do...

 

Forgive my angst against corporate interests and their policies/procedures. They just anger me because they don't care about anything other than their main premise - profit... and at any expense apparently. This is what big business has come down to, and it isn't going away unfortunately. Your patronage is not appreciated no matter how much you have supported any company. You always need more money to get their attention, and that's the way it will be. So F U GC, I hope you go underwater and for those working there, find a better job. That place has no future for you unless you are in the corporate side of it and like ripping people off selling over-priced Gibsons and Fenders and the like. And if you like ripping people off, then F U 2.

 

Whew... that felt like taking a big s... Had to get this rant out of my system. Appreciate the read, and good luck buying gear.

 

 

 

Yep, the employees dont care, personally i havent had that much trouble with them what i've purchase arrives in OK condition, i've bought 2 used guitars and also they were in good condition as described but i;ve suffered with the shipping times, once they took like 4 days to ship out something that i needed to be shipped sooner so a friend could pick it up for me (i couldnt do it), i gave them hell online, over email and over the phone and they gave me the excuse that the store ran outta "shipping supplies" (yeah right), so they ship it out the day i called them and ship it out Next day with no charge.

i recently read a review on their site on the Slash Epiphone LP anaconda burst signature (because i WAS considering getting it, but not now, thank god i didnt buy it), basically GC ship the person the new guitar WITHOUT paperwork nor Authenticity Cert, i mean its a slash signature and they didnt gave him the cert.....they told him something like the remaining slash guitars are in exhibition now and that the personnel threw out the guitar boxes and paperwork....................................................ok.

At the local store sometimes the employees are nice, sometimes they act like Gods and just dont care, or are no where to be found. Its a pain in the arse for sure

[NighthawkChris]

Hi FemmeParallell,

Yeah, do business with GC long enough and you will find something that they will do that is just f'n irritating. This one did it for me... I really wanted that guitar. They listed in EXCELLENT condition, and it surely wasn't. They claim to give 60% of the price they'd sell it to the person who provides them with a used guitar, and by those numbers, let's see...

1299.99 * 0.6 = 779.994

So the guy who gave them this abused guitar should have walked out with about $780 in their pocket. SO, GC F'ed up buying this abused guitar for what they did to make their margins agreeable... The guitar was worth only about $700-$900 being the guitar needs refretting and a fretboard sanding to get rid of the s... this idiot did to it. Even during initial time when I was offered the $1100 price, I countered with $1050 after my $900 was declined... They declined the $1050... Meanwhile, this other guy from OH wanted to buy it afterwards, then saw it in person apparently, and didn't take... Surprise there... SO, they called me back accepting my $1050 offer... F off GC... I went firm on the $900 - and that's even looking high from my perspective given another guy who bought it returned it, hahaha!

 

So F this company, they can suck it. They are greedy, don't care about you a..holes in this place and I hope that this f'n store closes. Really, it's pretty much personal with me now. When you spend big bucks with this company and they have no customer appreciation to sell me a guitar for what it is truly worth and give me this "Well, we will only make X on this guitar ..." BS, that is saying that I (GC that is) only care about my (again, GC's) end, don't care what you have spent with us as this has no consideration whatsoever to see a true loyal customer, and on top of "rewarding" great customer patronage, we will rip you off and make you suffer the financial consequences of inheriting a guitar that needs over $500 work where you will spend way more than the guitar is worth as we need to meet our margins on a F'n beat to s... Nighthawk. After refretting, the guitar is like half value if lucky... It's not collectible whatsoever and you should disclose this to the next person who buys this... I would have taken it as a player guitar and had my luthier fix it where I would spend a total of $1300 to get this guitar with a refretting and new nut. Reminder, this neck is 100% bound and may lose nibs or pay extra to keep them for the time involved to avoid damaging them. OK, I like nibs, haha! want to fight about it! Either way, won't take someone too long that knows what they are looking at to identify a guitar that has been refretted... God damn, what becomes of greed.

 

All I can say is someone F'ed someone with this guitar. Either the guy made out like a bandit with the $780 passing it along to some idiot employee at GC who thought this is in "excellent" condition, or GC knew it was F'ed up and gave the guy 60% of what it is truly worth and jacked the price way the F up. All in all, GC looks like crap here because they listed an abused guitar way above the real value of it.

 

Again, never spending another red cent there as long as I breathe - unless they sell me a new LP Standard at wholesale. (100%) Doubt that this is going to happen ever and I'm not holding my breath, but that's what it will take to win my business back.

 

BTW, complained online about the store as this is what the 1-800 customer service said to do... Probably won't get any word back - haven't yet - and they say they get back usually around 24 hours. We will see what theses f'n c...suckers have to say. I HIGHLY doubt that they will do s... The world will be a better place without GC. I am doing my part by banning this abomination of a company. It probably (most definitely) will not do much, but at least I can go to sleep knowing my money is not going to this greedy company that sells over-priced Gibsons and Fenders.