Intended to acquire a 1950 SJ

[j45nick]

I was guessing at his birth year

 

 

1947 will do. There ain't no D-47 or J-47 that I'm aware of.

 

D-45 and J-45, that sort of has a nice book-end symmetry to it. Working man's guitar vs ?

[E-minor7]

I was guessing at his birth year

Thought about that in post #21 - believe we have to bet higher (which means lower). Not certain at all, but here's my shot : 48

 

 

Ouhh, , , I see the man is here. But will it remain a secret. .

[Holiday Hoser]

I just can't fathom a price point of 8k for a non vintage guitar...Just sayin'

[j45nick]

I just can't fathom a price point of 8k for a non vintage guitar...Just sayin'

 

Should something old be more expensive than something new just because it's old?

[j45nick]

Not to be the typical wise a-ss I normally am, but that is typically the way it works with guitars, cars, ect. If pre war guitars were going for $300 a pop we would all be buying them. I don't make the rules or guitar prices.

 

There is a scarcity value for certain older items, but it is generally pretty narrow compared to the broad category of "old" stuff. Say, for example, you pay $50,000 for a new car. There are a lot of vintage cars--even quality ones-- that you can buy for less money than that. Certainly not the best of the best, the scarcest of the scarce, but plenty.

 

That same $50k new car will be worth $30k next year, and cheaper the year after. Even if you put it in a garage after two years, it isn't necessarily going to be worth that original $50k again in your lifetime.

 

Take a 45-year-old J-45 or D-28. Those are old by any rational measure, but they're cheaper than new ones. But take a good 70-year-old one of those, and the value jumps. Is the 70-year-old D-28 that much better as a musical instrument? Maybe, but perceived (and real) scarcity adds a lot to the value.

 

As you say, we don't make the rules.

 

In over 50 years of guitar ownership, I've never bought a new guitar. But I've bought plenty of two- to five-year-old like-new guitars for maybe $.65 on the dollar, which strikes me as good value.

 

There is a lot of appeal in newer guitars that come reasonably close to capturing the tone and character of vintage guitars, through painstaking construction details and modern innovations like torrefaction. Those tend to be a lot more expensive than "average" new models, and lack the age-related mojo of their vintage cousins. They also lack the probable problems of their vintage cousins.

 

I'd rather have a newish Martin Authentic or Gibson Legend than, say, a 1973 D-28 or 1973 J-45. That newer guitar would be a lot more expensive, and generally for good reason.

[zombywoof]

1947 will do. There ain't no D-47 or J-47 that I'm aware of.

 

D-45 and J-45, that sort of has a nice book-end symmetry to it. Working man's guitar vs ?

 

I do own what I consider to be a 1942 Gibson J-47.5. That is the guitar that started out as a J-50 but had a burst shot on it when somebody down the line discovered a major screw up in the top build. So it ain't really a J-50 and it ain't really a J45.

[Cougar]

....I have been hankering after a late 40s early 50s SJ and there was one listed at Carters Vintage Guitars..... Grabbed a ride to Gruhn's.... played couple of Martin Authentics, and oh my what mistake. Anyway, the 1937 Martin D-28 Authentic "Aged" is now on the little brown truck headed to my Colorado mountains.....

 

Major congrats! Couple years ago I had Music Villa let me know when Gibson popped out a burst J-15. Just as that happened, a New Hartford-built jumbo burst Guild F-50R came up on reverb, which I nabbed after the seller accepted my offer. Funny how one's guitar acquisition goals can change in unexpected ways!

[BluesKing777]

There is a lot of appeal in newer guitars that come reasonably close to capturing the tone and character of vintage guitars, through painstaking construction details and modern innovations like torrefaction. Those tend to be a lot more expensive than "average" new models, and lack the age-related mojo of their vintage cousins. They also lack the probable problems of their vintage cousins.

 

I'd rather have a newish Martin Authentic or Gibson Legend than, say, a 1973 D-28 or 1973 J-45. That newer guitar would be a lot more expensive, and generally for good reason.

 

 

The elephant in the room for the pedantic is the rosewoods used on the Authentics.........Madagascar Rosewood in the place of old growth Brazilian Rosewood. And old growth Adi vs new Adi for the tops. I escaped that Rosewood dilemma by picking an OM18A with Mahogany........but it has the new growth Adi top.

 

None of which bothers me in the least - mine is truly a remarkable OM which has most of the old OM specs....but I thought to mention it. Pre War Guitars will make a Brazilian Rosewood ‘Bone’.

 

 

BluesKing777.

[j45nick]

The elephant in the room for the pedantic is the rosewoods used on the Authentics.........Madagascar Rosewood in the place of old growth Brazilian Rosewood. And old growth Adi vs new Adi for the tops. I escaped that Rosewood dilemma by picking an OM18A with Mahogany........but it has the new growth Adi top.

 

None of which bothers me in the least - mine is truly a remarkable OM which has most of the old OM specs....but I thought to mention it. Pre War Guitars will make a Brazilian Rosewood ‘Bone’.

 

BluesKing777.

 

As you say, the Authentics use Madagascar in place of Brazilian, but do use Adi (torrefied in the newer versions) for tops. A vintage 1937 D-28 with old-growth Adi and Brazilian will set you back about $75k minimum. The Authentic uses the same construction techniques and has the same design characteristics (but different materials as noted). The 70's D-28 will be sitka over EIR; the 50's and 60's (until around 1969) will be sitka over Brazilian.

 

I've always wanted a guitar built with Brazilian b&s, but it might be more practical to own an Authentic than a Brazilian D-28 of similar price, which will be from the 60's. We'll see. These are not third-world problems we have here.

[BluesKing777]

As you say, the Authentics use Madagascar in place of Brazilian, but do use Adi (torrefied in the newer versions) for tops. A vintage 1937 D-28 with old-growth Adi and Brazilian will set you back about $75k minimum. The Authentic uses the same construction techniques and has the same design characteristics (but different materials as noted). The 70's D-28 will be sitka over EIR; the 50's and 60's (until around 1969) will be sitka over Brazilian.

 

I've always wanted a guitar built with Brazilian b&s, but it might be more practical to own an Authentic than a Brazilian D-28 of similar price, which will be from the 60's. We'll see. These are not third-world problems we have here.

 

 

And I am sure none of the first world problems will bother Dan when he is strumming his brand new aged Authentic!

 

 

I got to play this one for a few seconds....

 

 

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

[j45nick]

And I am sure none of the first world problems will bother Dan when he is strumming his brand new aged Authentic!

 

 

I got to play this one for a few seconds...

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Nice, but drop tuning changes everything. How did it sound and play from your brief experience?

 

I wouldn't pay extra for the "aged" finish. I can do that myself. That's just to make people think it's a vintage guitar.

[BluesKing777]

Nice, but drop tuning changes everything. How did it sound and play from your brief experience?

 

I wouldn't pay extra for the "aged" finish. I can do that myself. That's just to make people think it's a vintage guitar.

 

Should be asking Dan what he thinks of his new guitar, but he is obviously plucking away merrily somewhere and no time for the forum.

 

The video above has standard tuning, then dropped, then capo....

 

Now, I liked it a lot...but for fingerpicking it is not really ideal - too much bass. I have a Martin HD28V I just had to have (used 2005) but it needs frets fixed and then it will be gone. Superb strummer also. But the guitar has to do what I want, not the other way around. Too boomy for fingerpicking. :unsure: In that respect my new Taylor 717e Grand Pacific is just superb - new V bracing and a balanced but deep tone. Martin players hate it.....no bass, they cry. :mellow: But a big fat balanced tone suitable for fingerpicking only is the real forte of Lowden.

 

Now, Nick - while you don't want the aged finish, it does turn the hard edges into a nice worn 'glove' and because the top has a thin finish plus torrefied top and the aging ...sounded a lot mellower than a new (normal) Authentic. And new Martins tend to sound like new Martins in 20 year time! My 2002 OM18V sounds brand new still, probably too thick a finish on the top, still superb but..'new'. My torrefied top OM18 Authentic sounds 30 years old.

 

This new Gibson J45 Vintage with torrefied top was there too (both that and the D are still there, I think). I was a bit disappointed honestly, but it may 'come up a bit' with plenty of play:

 

 

 

 

Send me you '50 if your are getting tired of it, Nick. Forget that - CITES says NO. But if you are sailing past..... :unsure:

 

(The nice Canadians at Folkways Music say they will send anything plus get the CITES papers.... they have a 49 and a 51 and a split 57....)

 

 

BluesKing777.

[j45nick]

 

This new Gibson J45 Vintage with torrefied top was there too (both that and the D are still there, I think). I was a bit disappointed honestly, but it may 'come up a bit' with plenty of play:

 

 

Send me you '50 if your are getting tired of it, Nick. Forget that - CITES says NO. But if you are sailing past..... :unsure:

 

(The nice Canadians at Folkways Music say they will send anything plus get the CITES papers.... they have a 49 and a 51 and a split 57....)

 

BluesKing777.

 

That looks like a VOS finish on that J-45. Are they still doing that?

 

Not getting tired of the "new" 1950 J-45 anytime soon. Nothing else has even come out of the case since I got it back. Literally nothing.

[BluesKing777]

That looks like a VOS finish on that J-45. Are they still doing that?

 

Not getting tired of the "new" 1950 J-45 anytime soon. Nothing else has even come out of the case since I got it back. Literally nothing.

 

 

That guitar was probably made as Gibson were going broke.....

 

 

They still have them listed on Gibson.com Acoustics with VOS hand rubbed thin finish.

 

 

BluesKing777.

[duluthdan]

Sorry to have stepped away for awhile. BK is right, this new aged Martin is heavy on the bass for my fingers, have to adjust a bit. Been swapping back and forth from this Authentic to my J-35 Vintage, and I come away knowing that Gibson is the best I have, and if a gun was to my head, I’d give up the Martin before this J-35 Vintage goes anywhere.