:oilpit: Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 So I just got a new LP, an '04 Heritage Cherry Standard, unchambered and sexy. (pics are coming) I really dig it, the one thing was the pickups came way too high, so the other day I lowered them quite a bit. Not too crazy, I've seen LPs with lower pickups, but definitley lower than most. Today I was messin' around and I noticed it was sounding really thin, like, seriously thin, really quacky like a strat, it really started to bug me. So I took out my '07 Standard (chambered, with slightly higher pickups) and oh man, I've never gotten such sweet tones from that thing, it was the fattest, most in your face tone you will ever hear. The guitars are the same, except for the chambering and the pup height. Is the adjustments I made on the pickups what is causing the lack in beef? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mick Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 just bring them back up and try again. you don't want them low ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXE® Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 No idea. IMO, there are no rules to setting pickup height - just adjust them til they sound right to you. It seems I like them lower than most but here's mine: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepblue Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Wow!...Rich, those are low. But hey, if that gives you the sound you like more power to you. Ill bet its creamy and mellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chongo Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 just bring them back up and try again. you don't want them low ! Depends. Most neck pickups on the old LPs are virtually flush with the bezel. There are default distances for LP pickups (and then, of course, you can move them up or down from there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil325 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 my luthier set my neck pickup basically flush to the rings. i raised them yesterday because i read somewhere about volume being proportional to PU height, tone, etc. so i messed around with it. i wouldn't worry about it being too low because it's something that is completely reversible and your preference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Wow!...Rich' date=' those are low. But hey, if that gives you the sound you like more power to you. Ill bet its creamy and mellow.[/quote'] To an extent, yes. Those are a 490R/498T set which are relatively bright sounding so I can get away with lowering them more than you could with other Gibson sets like Burstbuckers. When I adjust height, it's not so much the tone I'm listening to as much as the attack and "compression" (for lack of a better word). I like a pretty percussive attack and lower pickups give me that until a certain point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Seth Lover mentioned that development of the humbucker was carried out with the pickups close to the strings. This is how they were set during player tests. Humbuckers typically create a fairly weak magnetic force on the strings (the magnetised strings affect the magnetic field around the coils) so it is an advantage to have the pickups close. I am not aware of an advantage in setting pickup height low, except maybe to match them to a high gain amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Depends on the sound you like. Those guys who developed the pickups were using totally different amps and cables than what most of us use today. Nobody was using high quality cables like Monster or George L's back then which hold on to more high frequencies than the ones they used back in the day. So, IMO, whatever standards set by Seth Lover and his testers is pretty much moot now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Mmm, Seymour Duncan (and quite a few others) might disagree with you on that point... Funny how those 'standards' produced the most desirable pickups ever made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitareal Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 The type (passive/active) of the pickup plays a major role on this issue My epi with EMGs 81/85 do not present audible differences with different heights. On the other hand, my push-tone bb pros and P 94s react differently even on small height changes Personally, in order to decide, i used a good loud amp (unfortunately not mine) and checked changes with small changes on heights (equally to both sides of the pup) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Mmm' date=' Seymour Duncan (and quite a few others) might disagree with you on that point...Funny how those 'standards' produced the most desirable pickups ever made.[/quote'] I don't mean the pickup itself, I mean how it is adjusted for height. Additionally, those pickups weren't manufactured as consistently as the ones being made today and the original ones that are still around today have aged differently so who really knows what they were hearing back then. Even recordings won't tell the story as microphones, tape and all the other variables involved in the process color sound, usually purposefully to fulfill an artist's vision. All that aside, today's PAF-style pickups are a representation of *a* set of originals or an average taken from several subjects. Do they sound exactly like what Seth Lover and his testers heard? Beats me, they might be close or they might be off enough to warrant some adjustment in height. If nothing else, Gibson put those adjustment screws on there for a reason - to set 'em up how the player prefers them otherwise they would have just bolted them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Adjustment screws are there because the action is adjustable. They are convenient to shape the tone by lowering one side of the pickup - like how some players find the neck pickup a little too dark. By lowering pickups equally on both sides, and sinking them quite low, it makes the guitar much quieter which is fine if it sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Lowering one side or the other doesn't change the overall tone, it just makes either the lower or higher strings more quiet than the opposing strings. Lowering both sides the same amount not only lowers output/volume, it also changes the way the guitar responds to pick attack and has the added bonus of less string drag. The other variable at work here is that Gibson makes four different versions of Burstbuckers and two different versions of 57 Classics and all are all supposed to be versions of the original PAF. Given just their different levels of output, that tells me that only one of them could possibly be like whatever Lover and the testers decided on as a prototype. Since they all have different output levels, it stands to reason that if you want to achieve a sound like the originals, you're more than likely going to have to compensate for more or less output in the reissues by either lowering or raising the pickups - deviate from whatever spec Lover or Gibson came up with. I'm not trying to bust your balls here but if you want to adjust the sound of your guitar with a micrometer, that's your business - if it works for you to get the sound you want, that's all that matters. However, I find the best tool for determining the proper height of pickups to be my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 There's no rule about it... no "right way" to set them... no wrong either; there's two lines you shouldnt cross: don't let them touch the strings, don't let them fall from the rings. That's it. Adjust them to where they feel better for you. Again, there's no rule to it. If there was, we would still be playing acoustics and the electric guitar would have died a year or 2 after being released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Lowering one side or the other doesn't change the overall tone' date=' it just makes either the lower or higher strings more quiet than the opposing strings. [/quote'] This is the principle behind tone controls - note the word 'tone' ! Lowering both sides the same amount not only lowers output/volume' date=' it also changes the way the guitar responds to pick attack and has the added bonus of less string drag.[/quote'] If you find lowering the output volume useful, fair enough. I feel I ought to mention that humbuckers have very little drag on the string even when adjusted close. Seth Lover's work was inspired. It's a testament to him that we are both in essence playing '50s guitars. - '50s guitar design + '50s electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Lowering one side or the other doesn't change the overall tone' date=' it just makes either the lower or higher strings more quiet than the opposing strings.[/quote'] This is the principle behind tone controls - note the word 'tone' ! I'm not sure what you're driving at here but, for the sake of clarity on my part: Lowering either side of the pickup will just cause the strings over top of that side to not be as loud, not change frequency response. By adjusting one side or the other, you can get whatever balance between the high strings and low strings that you like. The tone knob rolls off high frequencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I mean if you have a graphic -say on a Boogie, and you reduce certain frequencies (like lowering one side of the pickup), there would be a difference in the tone of the sound from the amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I see - you're talking about pre gain and post gain EQ. Yes, but still, lowering one side of the pickup doesn't really change frequency response like an EQ. It might sound sort of like it if you lower the pickup on the side with the low strings so that the high strings are more dominant as the higher strings have higher frequencies (or vice versa) but it's not really like using an EQ to shape the overall voice (frequency response) of the pickup; at least, not in a very dramatic way without changing the height of the pickup dramatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 A friend of mine works at PRS doing final set up of the private stock line and to some famous "stars" guitars. When I was doing some work on my LP this is what he suggested. "hold the E strings down at the last fret and move the pickups to measure at the center of the pickup 5/32" at the high E and 3/32" at the low E. Both pickups, same measurement, one string at a time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 It might sound sort of like it if you lower the pickup on the side with the low strings so that the high strings are more dominant as the higher strings have higher frequencies (or vice versa) Yes, that's it. Not dramatic, but can be very useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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