Fullerplast or Nitrocellulose

[DanyJr]

To the Gibson experts here, I have a question.

I've been reading all about Fullerplast on the good ol' internet, about how "notorious" it is with regards to not letting the guitar 'breathe' as opposed to a Nitrocellulose laquer, affecting the sound of a guitar in a negative way, etc. all of which has to be taken with a grain of salt. But with regards to repairs it is common knowledge amongst luthiers that Fullerplast is extremely difficult/impossible to get rid of when repairing (a neck reset, for example).

I'm in the process of buying a Gibson Advance Jumbo (serial number 91060001) and from what I've been told, most Gibson acoustics from the early 90s have a Fullerplast finish, but not all.

Question is, is there a way to tell if the guitar has a nitrocellulose or a Fullerplast finish judging by the photos? I've included a few photos here for the expert eyes on this forum.

Many thanks for your replies in advance.

[DanyJr]

[DanyJr]

More photos:

https://imgur.com/a/rDPcZdy

[Leonard McCoy]

The AJ's finish at hand looks like Fullerplast to me due to the orange-peel effect. It also seems to be peeling off, literally, at the binding. Wherever the finish is broken, the catalystic nature of the Fullerplast finish fully shines through otherwise entombing the guitar with its hardened plastic.

I'd stay away from any non-nitro Gibsons—not so much because of the sound but because of the finish and feel. It's also impossible to do any invisible repair on these kinds of crystallized finishes, be it Fullerplast or poly.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Leonard McCoy

[Buc McMaster]

If my remembering is correct, Gibson only used fullerplast for a short period in the early 90s.........1990 and '91 I think.  If the guitar doesn't fall in this date range it's nitro.......if so, i might be.  I'd contact Bozeman with your serial number and they should have the correct answer.

 

[zombywoof]

Buc is spot on.  Gibson made the switch from Fullperplast to nitro n late-1990 or early 1991..   The main issue with Fullerplast is it  is tough to repair.  If I am reading your serial number correctly the guitar rolled out of the factory in 1990 so most likely has  a Fullerplast finish.  It also will have the paddle neck joint rather than the traditional dovetail joint.

Edited August 24, 2019 by zombywoof

[DanyJr]

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

Is there a way to check whether this has a nitro or Fullerplast finish in-situ? Can I perform any nondestructive testing to put the question to bed once for all? I've been told brushing acetone on the finish would soften the nitro lacquer but would otherwise have no effect on the sturdy Fullerplast?

Thanks

[slimt]

6 hours ago, Buc McMaster said:

If my remembering is correct, Gibson only used fullerplast for a short period in the early 90s.........1990 and '91 I think.  If the guitar doesn't fall in this date range it's nitro.......if so, i might be.  I'd contact Bozeman with your serial number and they should have the correct answer.

 

Yup they did..

Fullerplast was a product that cracked almost  the same day put on the guitar.  And not a good product to repair.  It was thick and the finishes were aweful.  

The OP looks like a 1990 model.  Nice AJ 

[DanyJr]

I have received the following replies from Gibson USA and Gibson Europe, both confirming the finish on the guitar is Nitrocellulose as opposed to what you guys said? 🙄

[zombywoof]

I am not sure I would put much stock in what Gibson customer service says.  Virtually every source out there including the Fabulous Flattop book notes that Gibson used a Fulleplast finish on the Advanced Jumbo and other models  until sometime in late-1990.   So it would come down to exactly when the guitar was built.

Edited September 1, 2019 by zombywoof

[62burst]

1 hour ago, zombywoof said:

I am not sure I would put much stock in what Gibson customer service says.  Virtually every source out there including the Fabulous Flattop book notes that Gibson used a Fulleplast finish on the Advanced Jumbo and other models  until sometime in late-1990.   So it would come down to exactly when the guitar was built.

Like the first guitar that was stamped on Monday April 6, 1990?  (91060001)

[DanyJr]

Since nobody has been able to tell me whether it is Fullerplast or Nitrocellulose from the photos here, I think I will have to do the unthinkable.

A small brush and a splash of acetone should put this question to bed....

[zombywoof]

3 hours ago, DanyJr said:

Since nobody has been able to tell me whether it is Fullerplast or Nitrocellulose from the photos here, I think I will have to do the unthinkable.

A small brush and a splash of acetone should put this question to bed....

 

 Fullerplast  was used as a grain filler.   And yes it should be impervious to most common solvents.  Fender though supposedly shot a coat of nitro over their Fullerplast sealed guitars in the 1960s.   Perhaps Gibson did the same thing during the early days with the change involving only going with a nitro pore filler in late-1990..        

[DanyJr]

From my understanding Gibson used only Fullerplast during the few years they did use it.

I am sincerely hoping it is nitrocellulose otherwise I might have to return the guitar because the seller claimed it was nitro. I think that's a reasonable enough excuse for them to accept a return.

Edited September 1, 2019 by DanyJr

[zombywoof]

2 hours ago, DanyJr said:

From my understanding Gibson used only Fullerplast during the few years they did use it.

I am sincerely hoping it is nitrocellulose otherwise I might have to return the guitar because the seller claimed it was nitro. I think that's a reasonable enough excuse for them to accept a return.

Yeah.  I recall something about the spray booth being set up only for Fullerplast.  Just a thought.  I guess though my thought is that as the OP owns the guitar what does it really matter.

[Jinder]

I had a 1990 Hummingbird that was finished with Fullerplast, had the paddle neck joint etc. Fabulous instrument, I wish I still had it. Unless you're planning a major repair sometime soon, If you already own the guitar I wouldn't worry about the finish.

[zombywoof]

4 hours ago, Jinder said:

I had a 1990 Hummingbird that was finished with Fullerplast, had the paddle neck joint etc. Fabulous instrument, I wish I still had it. Unless you're planning a major repair sometime soon, If you already own the guitar I wouldn't worry about the finish.

I have never heard one complaint about the Fullerplast finish or double dovetail paddle neck joint when it comes to sound.     The only things I have heard (never having owned one) is that a Fullerplast finish is more difficult to repair as is, depending o whom you talk to, the neck joint.  And before it comes up, wood does not "breathe".  It never breathed as the part of the tree the guitar is built with served only to transport water,

[DanyJr]

I appreciate comments. My main issue with Fullerplast is how it looks and will age compared to nitrocellulose.

I'm not an advocate of wood 'breathing' and all that nonsense however it is a known fact that a dampening finish can hinder the resonance of the guitar.

Edited September 3, 2019 by DanyJr

[62burst]

7 hours ago, DanyJr said:

I appreciate comments. My main issue with Fullerplast is how it looks and will age compared to nitrocellulose.

I'm not an advocate of wood 'breathing' and all that nonsense however it is a known fact that a dampening finish can hinder the resonance of the guitar.

That's a big "however".

And it's a big advantage to how nitro finished guitars are considered to improve with age, as the solvents/carrier agents gas out over time.

[DanyJr]

Indeed it does.

And of course, so does a thin finish or a varnish on a brand new guitar.

[slimt]

Ive owned a few with the fullerplast finishes. And would not go out of my way to find another.  The checking is heavy and not repairable when they start other than to strip down and redo    .  Nitro has its quirks but a far better product if something ever has to be attended too.    I may add  more  wood friendly .   

[DanyJr]

Thank you for your comment slimt. 

Is it possible to completely remove the Fullerplast finish and redo it with lacquer instead?

Alsoo does theguitar need to be repainted prior to refinishing?

Edited September 3, 2019 by DanyJr

[slimt]

3 hours ago, DanyJr said:

Thank you for your comment slimt. 

Is it possible to completely remove the Fullerplast finish and redo it with lacquer instead?

Alsoo does theguitar need to be repainted prior to refinishing?

To be honest... I think you should Just enjoy it.. the AJ was and is a Fine guitar..  But I do think refinishing it would be pointless..  Its Not Old enough and its still only worth so much..  besides with a AJ.. looks is one thing.. but its the volume that makes it stand out.. I like them.. 

[blindboygrunt]

To each their own and all that , but this sort of thing baffles me ...

Theres no lacquer on the inside of the guitar , so really how much does 'breathing' come into it .

Guitar sounds good 

Guitar doesnt sound so good 

That's about it ....

And, please , I mean no offence nor am I interested in an argument in anyway , just a little confused 

[DanyJr]

My issue is not really 'breathing'. While I can understand the argument of wood being in direct contact with air and thus changing (losing moisture content, resin hardening etc) as time passes, indeed as you said the inside of the guitar is not covered and hence in direct contact with air.

My concern with a Fullerplast finished wood are a couple of things:

1- As users have mentioned, it makes the guitar incredibly difficult to repair further down the line;

2- The plasticity of Fullerplast acts as a dampener to the vibrations of the top. On a nitrocellulose finished guitar the lacquer thins over time, allowing the wood to resonate more freely but Fullerplast won't degrade (much like polyurethane). Hence 'aging' won't have much of a pleasant effect on the tone.

Of course this is just my theory backed by science. I haven't lived long enough to tell for sure if what I predict will happen will actually happen!