Rosewoody Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 NeoConMan wrote Ah, if I only cared that you willingly choose to burn in hell. Don't let the fire truck leave, someday you'll wish he was there to assist you for eternity. What I find disturbing in so many good christians is the glee they take envisioning the fate of people who dare disagree with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicked1 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 NeoConMan wrote Ah' date=' if I only cared that you willingly choose to burn in hell. Don't let the fire truck leave, someday you'll wish he was there to assist you for eternity. [/color'] What I find disturbing in so many good christians is the glee they take envisioning the fate of people who dare disagree with them. Ah, Rosewoody....heaven for the weather. Hell for the company, right? At least I know there will be some good conversations going on *if* the place exists!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuckomf Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Book: Fahrenheit 451 Movie: The Postman Music: Sublime - 40 Oz. to Freedom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Agreed. Add the Founding documents of our nation... quote] Which is it? The Bible or founding documents of the nation. The two have very little to do with each other. ;) Wicked1, you stated that the bible and the founding documents of the US and very little to do with each other. I responded with some history on the issue and quotes from the men who wrote the documents. You ignored the argument. Do you still believe that the documents and ideas behind them are not related, or have very little to do with each other? You referred to Jefferson and Franklin as good non-christian men, while it may be true that they were not Christians, as they doubted the divinity of Christ, they were believers in God. Google Benjamin Franklin's letter to Ezra Stiles and read his own words on his belief system. Jefferson, who wrote the letter to the Baptists in Connecticut that talked about a "wall of separation between church and state, attended church services in the US Capital building through two terms in office. He also authorized the use of other government buildings in Washington to be used for church services. Jefferson also wrote that he didn't want America to have a government without religion but one that would strengthen religious freedom. Jefferson and Franklin and the other so called Deists among the framers of the constitution were more against organized religion and the perceived "bastardization" of true faith or trust in God, than they were against God. I don't know of too many, if any at all that were atheists. The founders that we think of as Deists were more against orthodoxy than they were against God. I think that it's okay for people to believe anything that they want, as I believe in free will. I support your right to have faith in anything that you want, or no faith at all. America was founded, in part for religious freedoms. The first Americans were fearful of a State Religion after their experience with King George. I would never presume to believe that it was my job to change anyone's mind, or to force my belief system on anybody. However, I think that it's pretty clear from all of the writings of the framers that the majority of them believed in a Supreme Being that they referred to as God. American law is at least partially based on biblical law, as in the 10 commandments. It's also true that some of the law is based on Hammurabi's code. A simple reading of the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution should be enough for a rational person to realize that the Bible and the founding documents are linked. I believe that your statement to the contrary is wrong. As a non-believer, you should be thankful for the wisdom and intelligence that the framers used when writing the documents that the country is founded on. Agnostics, Atheists, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Wiccans, Christians, etc., living in America should be thankful that the founders were for the most part, Christians. The believers among the founders knew and understood that faith or religion is a personal choice and should be left up to the individual, as the bible tells us it should be, and not the state. God doesn't command Christians to convert non-believers, he tells us to spread the seeds and that he'll take care of the rest. To each his/her own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 The spirit in which the Founding Documents were Drawn is rooted in Tolerance. True Freedom and Liberty by Definition can not exist. You don't have the Freedom to be Intolerant, nor the Liberty to take another’s right. I have the right to say "I Don't Know", and I'm not Agnostic because that label implies I'm in search of an answer. I've found it. "We Don't Know" is the answer. We have to go to the grave uncertain of what happens next. That's a Pill, far to Jagged for most Humans to swallow. Why not Christianity? Because no matter how you slice it, a Human has interpreted, translated, or otherwise corrupted at least a part of the Bible in its 2 thousand Years (I'm talking New Testament). Humans usually make mistakes. It's pretty impressive when one of us does one thing right (Loius Pasteur) let alone a few hundred (George Washington Carver). So either through Mistake or Malice, Humans have Screwed up the Bible. Why Not Atheist? Because Every Religion in the world has some sort of prayer, chanting, or ceremony, that gets a whole group concentrating on one issue. Every one of them has been at it for thousands of years with legends and modern testimony of some pretty apparent results. We're talking about Humans, they'll move out of caves if they find out huts work better, They'd be over Religion by now if it didn't work. Why not Agnostic? Because maybe if we don't Presuppose that we know someone who knows all the answers, maybe....just maybe....we'll start to figure out how to get This Earth in the best kind of Shape. Then maybe we won't feel the need to look forward to an Afterlife better than the one on Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemoon Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Wicked1' date=' you stated that the bible and the founding documents of the US and very little to do with each other. I responded with some history on the issue and quotes from the men who wrote the documents. You ignored the argument. Do you still believe that the documents and ideas behind them are not related, or have very little to do with each o [/quote'] Perhaps she had something better to do than respond...or didn't feel obliged to engage you. You shouldn't take it personally. Some people have an opinion. They state it, and then move on. Not everyone feels that is necessary to try to prove they are right all the time, and every time. In addition, I am sure scholars spend many years researching such subjects. I am not sure that a post by you on a guitar forum is going to be viewed as gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicked1 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Perhaps she had something better to do than respond...or didn't feel obliged to engage you. You shouldn't take it personally. Some people have an opinion. They state it' date=' and then move on. Not everyone feels that is necessary to try to prove they are right all the time, and every time. In addition, I am sure scholars spend many years researching such subjects. I am not sure that a post by you on a guitar forum is going to be viewed as gospel. [/quote'] Thank you, Bluemoon. As you said, I chose not to respond. I didn't want to hijack a cool thread by engaging in an argument (not a debate, mind you--an argument) over whether the dudes who founded this country were Christian. I've read enough of their stuff to be pretty sure that going to church was a photo-op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosewoody Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Ah' date=' Rosewoody....heaven for the weather. Hell for the company, right? At least I know there will be some good conversations going on *if* the place exists!![/quote'] Indeed. Gonna miss conversations with Jerry Falwell, Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart, Oral Roberts, Benny Hahn, Ted Hagarty, the neoconmen, a pile of popes and other sanctimonius representatives of correct thinking. We'll be stuck with the boring Bill Mahers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basshole Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Is Zombie a synonym for conservative? Just wondering? :- isnt synonym what you but on a synonym roll? or is that cinnamon? Can you put that in a sentence for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homz Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 isnt synonym what you but on a synonym roll? or is that cinnamon? Can you put that in a sentence for me? I R spellng defecient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Book: Tao Te Ching Movie: The Cowboys (viewed as allegory as well as potentially an historic reality) Music: A collection of Bach's Brandenburgs. Life: A good knife, needle and thread and lots of string. Liberty: An indomitable spirit. ("Stone walls do not a prison make...") Pursuit of happiness: A good guitar and an endless supply of reading material along with basic physical comforts of a roof, heat and air conditioning, etc. (Hmmmm. Maybe bifocals, too, eh?) I wouldn't mind a bit of company, depending on.... <grin> Seriously, I used to say that every child should develop the following skills not only to survive, but to prevail darned near anywhere in the world on dry land where he/she were dropped: 1. Capability of cooking (from making fire a fire with available fuels to a modern kitchen) 2. Capability of basic sewing technique. 3. Basic first aid. 4. Unarmed martial arts, theory and practice of realities involved. 5. Basic firearms skills to follow #4. Those are the basics - the bottom line from Maslow's "hierarchy of human needs" placed into contexts including those in which I'd hope I'd never be forced to encounter. Obviously additional skills wouldn't hurt. For example... even with the above it might be rather difficult to survive if dropped onto Antarctica or the middle of an active volcano, but... <grin> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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