Mantastic Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 I've definitely learned something. I've always assumed that if there was something on a guitar that I thought was too hard to do, it's fine - I'll just give it to an expert and they'll take care of it. But as a friend of mine pointed out yesterday, "you know more about Gibson guitars than many luthiers. If you're not sure you can do it, it probably shouldn't be done." At first I said, "I don't know about that..." But as it sunk in, yes, I know Gibson guitars in excruciating detail. However, I don't have the experience to do complicated jobs, especially if it involves finishing. I don't have the tools nor the desire to stress over something so delicate. But he's right - I know enough about Gibsons and if I'm not sure something can be done, then short of sending it to Gibson for modification, it just shouldn't be done. It's easy to think of these guys as guitar gods. Those are the ones we see on YouTube making a headstock repairs with wooden dowels and making it disappear. But it's not automatic. I don't think there is any kind of licensing for Luthiers, and there probably should be, just like there are for dozens of other trades. I thought 60 5-star reviews was worth something. But in hindsight, they could have all been string changes and setups. I have no way of knowing. I appreciate you guys - even Dr. Pepper and all his passive aggression. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Just now, Mantastic said: even Dr. Pepper and all his passive aggression. ARRRRGGHHHH!! I HATE that idiotic dweebish oxymoron! Whitefang 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Whitefang said: ARRRRGGHHHH!! I HATE that idiotic dweebish oxymoron! Whitefang I hate when people criticize others with words they don't understand. "Passive aggression" is a clinical term and it is "...a pattern of indirectly expressing negative feelings instead of openly addressing them" However, I do understand how the uneducated might see it as nothing more than an oxymoron as if oxymorons are inherently incorrect. BTW, "oxymoron" is an oxymoron. The word is derived from two ancient Greek words: oxys, which means "sharp," and moronos, which means "dull" or "stupid." So I guess idiotic dweebish oxymorons have their place. But hey, you're entitled to hate oxymorons if you want. Doesn't affect me. Good luck with your English practice. Edited October 17, 2021 by Mantastic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Mantastic said: I'm less creative. I just ordered the exact same guitar from Gibson. Thing is, I loved the guitar for the day I had it. I hope that I get one very much like it. But the karma thing. Yeah, this one had bad mojo all over it - at least in my mind - from it's first week here. With a brand new guitar, that won't be part of its history and won't kill my vibe by popping into my head. Thank you. I absolutely love that perspective and I think it's the one I'll adopt. Very wise. That’s great, even if it’s the same model.. It’s all new & won’t have any bad karma… You get to create it’s aura…… 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Y'know, I'm prone to what I refer to as "playful banter" or "ribbing" and kidding people tongue in cheek which some who might be too narrow minded see as serious negative or insulting comments. When no offense was intended at all. And they use the "millennial-speak" crap phrase" "Passive/aggressive" to describe it. To whit: Saying someone is "passive-aggressive" makes as much sense to me as saying someone is "quietly-loud". Or, "Thinly obese" . And also BY THE WAY (no harm in using whole words )....... I think SGT. (not DR.) PEPPER is more facetiously condescending most times than actually intentionally offensive(though knowing this I feel he'd argue otherwise ) and not being-ahem- "passive-aggressive" passive adjective not acting to influence or change a situation; allowing other people to be in control aggressive adjective behaving in an angry and violent way towards another person See what I mean? Good luck with your English practice too. Whitefang 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 18, 2021 Author Share Posted October 18, 2021 13 hours ago, Whitefang said: Y'know, I'm prone to what I refer to as "playful banter" or "ribbing" and kidding people tongue in cheek which some who might be too narrow minded see as serious negative or insulting comments. When no offense was intended at all. And they use the "millennial-speak" crap phrase" "Passive/aggressive" to describe it. To whit: Saying someone is "passive-aggressive" makes as much sense to me as saying someone is "quietly-loud". Or, "Thinly obese" . And also BY THE WAY (no harm in using whole words )....... I think SGT. (not DR.) PEPPER is more facetiously condescending most times than actually intentionally offensive(though knowing this I feel he'd argue otherwise ) and not being-ahem- "passive-aggressive" passive adjective not acting to influence or change a situation; allowing other people to be in control aggressive adjective behaving in an angry and violent way towards another person See what I mean? Good luck with your English practice too. Whitefang As I said, it's a clinical term. Go complain to the medical community. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 20 hours ago, Mantastic said: I've definitely learned something. I've always assumed that if there was something on a guitar that I thought was too hard to do, it's fine - I'll just give it to an expert and they'll take care of it. But as a friend of mine pointed out yesterday, "you know more about Gibson guitars than many luthiers. If you're not sure you can do it, it probably shouldn't be done." At first I said, "I don't know about that..." But as it sunk in, yes, I know Gibson guitars in excruciating detail. However, I don't have the experience to do complicated jobs, especially if it involves finishing. I don't have the tools nor the desire to stress over something so delicate. But he's right - I know enough about Gibsons and if I'm not sure something can be done, then short of sending it to Gibson for modification, it just shouldn't be done. It's easy to think of these guys as guitar gods. Those are the ones we see on YouTube making a headstock repairs with wooden dowels and making it disappear. But it's not automatic. I don't think there is any kind of licensing for Luthiers, and there probably should be, just like there are for dozens of other trades. I thought 60 5-star reviews was worth something. But in hindsight, they could have all been string changes and setups. I have no way of knowing. I appreciate you guys - even Dr. Pepper and all his passive aggression. He's probably very good at what he does. but this one here, was just an unfortunate turn of events. There's really not much wood there to anchor a strap pin. But that's hind sight and it's not going to make the outcome any different. Hopefully you do get the funds to just replace it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 The strap button should never have been moved to the horn. No. And he should not have said he would do it. Or attempted it. Or even considered it. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 33 minutes ago, ksdaddy said: The strap button should never have been moved to the horn. No. And he should not have said he would do it. Or attempted it. Or even considered it. The customer is always right. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: The customer is always right. Reminds me of a sign an Uncle of mine who owned a restaurant had hanging in the kitchen.... "Our rules" "Rule number one; The customer is always right." "Rule number two; If the customer is wrong, see rule number one." Whitefang 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Farnsbarns said: I don't understand all the grief the OP is getting. Farnsy!!! yea, I don't get it either, he came for some advice on the matter. people should relax a bit, you know kind of how this place USED to be? I've gotten my dander up a few times lately, mostly some newcomers trying to pick fights and all.. but it's just not the way I want to "Be" here. Edited October 18, 2021 by kidblast 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheToneDig Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 When it comes to luthiers, the cure for a bad luthier is a good luthier. Which is what Gibson will have when they get a guitar in for repairs. There is really nothing a good luthier can't do and sometimes even better than the original state it was in. Countless stories of high-end guitars getting busted and going to a good luthier and coming out in even better condition than they did leaving the shop and sounding even better for it because you get so much additional expertize. Horn splits happen and are something that can be solved to even become stronger than before. Of course, it all matters on finding the right luthier. It took me three attempts to find one who does super work at a good price. The middle guy was terrible and the first guy I had was capable, but this third guy is a wizard. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) On 10/16/2021 at 9:58 PM, Mantastic said: Dr. Pepper, don't waste the attitude on me. It has no effect. I've been warding off forum trolls since before you knew what forums were. Back in my day I had to walk to school up hill both ways in the snow, so you young whipper snappers don't know how good you got with these fancy new fangled electric ge-tars. When I was young all we got was a stick to play with. Blah Blah Blah you have been promoted to Senior All Wise Elder Of The Forum. I guess according to one of your posts, with all the smack I talked I'm glad I have the use of both of my legs. That luthier must be in the hospital with this legs in a truss. Edited October 19, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 12 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said: Back in my day I had to walk to school up hill both ways in the snow, so you young whipper snappers don't know how good you got with these fancy new fangled electric ge-tars. When I was young all we got was a stick to play with. Blah Blah Blah you have been promoted to Senior All Wise Elder Of The Forum. I guess according to one of your posts, with all the smack I talked I'm glad I have the use of both of my legs. That luthier must be in the hospital with this legs in a truss. I'm 52. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 hour ago, TheToneDig said: When it comes to luthiers, the cure for a bad luthier is a good luthier. Which is what Gibson will have when they get a guitar in for repairs. There is really nothing a good luthier can't do and sometimes even better than the original state it was in. Countless stories of high-end guitars getting busted and going to a good luthier and coming out in even better condition than they did leaving the shop and sounding even better for it because you get so much additional expertize. Horn splits happen and are something that can be solved to even become stronger than before. Of course, it all matters on finding the right luthier. It took me three attempts to find one who does super work at a good price. The middle guy was terrible and the first guy I had was capable, but this third guy is a wizard. That's who I need to find. Until then, it will be Gibson repair and restoration. Thank you for the advice, though. One of my concerns was exactly what you bring up - whether or not just about everything can be repaired properly. And you've answered that question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, Mantastic said: I'm 52. a mere child - I'm 64! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 On 10/18/2021 at 8:11 AM, ksdaddy said: The strap button should never have been moved to the horn. No. And he should not have said he would do it. Or attempted it. Or even considered it. You're right. And I didn't know that it could be for sure, which is why I told him very clearly that if he wasn't 100% certain that it could be done safely, then don't do it and I'll still pay him for his time. He said all went well. When I picked it up, I told him he wasn't charging enough and actually gave him more. I was obviously incorrect! But, I've done a little more research since then to find out WHY this happened and how he could be so wrong. And I do have a theory. And there have been SG's with the strap button mounted on the tip of the horn. The Tony Iommi signature model comes to mind. However, the SG Modern is the only (I think) SG Gibson has made with a maple cap. And upon closer inspection (through pictures), you can occasionally see that the maple cap is quite thick - about 50% of the body. So it's more like a glue sandwich with mahogany and maple bread. I don't have the guitar anymore to verify this, but I believe the two halves delaminated - that would result in the "crack" right in the center. And although it really shouldn't have been a problem if the proper pilot hole were drilled EXACTLY in the center, the screw went in at an angle, pushing the pieces apart, and the pilot hole was too small. Even if it went in straight, I think it would have delaminated without a large enough pilot hole. So, I think I know that "how". The back - from where the strap button was moved... There's absolutely no reason I can think of for that. It's just really sloppy. I'll add a picture to this post that shows how the SG Modern is half maple once I find one again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 On 10/18/2021 at 7:30 AM, kidblast said: He's probably very good at what he does. but this one here, was just an unfortunate turn of events. There's really not much wood there to anchor a strap pin. But that's hind sight and it's not going to make the outcome any different. Hopefully you do get the funds to just replace it. He did buy the guitar from me at full price and the replacement will be here in a few hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, Mantastic said: He did buy the guitar from me at full price and the replacement will be here in a few hours. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) On 10/17/2021 at 11:56 AM, Whitefang said: Y'know, I'm prone to what I refer to as "playful banter" or "ribbing" and kidding people tongue in cheek which some who might be too narrow minded see as serious negative or insulting comments. When no offense was intended at all. And they use the "millennial-speak" crap phrase" "Passive/aggressive" to describe it. To whit: Saying someone is "passive-aggressive" makes as much sense to me as saying someone is "quietly-loud". Or, "Thinly obese" . And also BY THE WAY (no harm in using whole words )....... I think SGT. (not DR.) PEPPER is more facetiously condescending most times than actually intentionally offensive(though knowing this I feel he'd argue otherwise ) and not being-ahem- "passive-aggressive" passive adjective not acting to influence or change a situation; allowing other people to be in control aggressive adjective behaving in an angry and violent way towards another person See what I mean? Good luck with your English practice too. Whitefang It's very simple. Even you can understand if you try. A passive aggressive person is a person who acts aggressively but hides it behind words or actions that seem passive. So they appear to be passive, while they are actually being aggressive. That's where the term comes from. However, in your silly "quietly loud" comparison, "quietly" is an adverb modifying loud - that's why it makes no sense. The proper comparison would be "quiet loud". Now we have a term that's not so self explanatory. The above paragraph is passive aggressive. And Obese is a clinical term. It doesn't mean what you are implying or what you think it means. It is not the opposite of thin. Edited October 19, 2021 by Mantastic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 12 minutes ago, kidblast said: a mere child - I'm 64! Oh thank God! I don't like being the oldest one in a discussion. Or do I???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Just now, Mantastic said: Oh thank God! I don't like being the oldest one in a discussion. Or do I???? in this forum, naw.. not by a long shot! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mantastic said: I'm 52. Most of us here are in our 50's and 60's. I'm 55. And lucky I can even spell the word forum. Edited October 19, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Mantastic said: It's very simple. Even you can understand if you try. A passive aggressive person is a person who acts aggressively but hides it behind words or actions that seem passive. So they appear to be passive, while they are actually being aggressive. That's where the term comes from. But, how can you discern that the guy being passive is only appearing to be, but is actually being aggressive? Or vice versa? Seems to me a case of just hearing (or reading) what you wish to, not necessarily what is. Like a lot of times I've been accused of being "passive-aggressive" when really, I was just puling some leg. And... obese adjective \ ō-ˈbēs \ Definition of obese : having excessive body fat Seems to be what I always thought it meant. Whitefang 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 See we learn things here and not just about guitars. Now I know what passive aggressive means and the word obese too. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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