Mantastic Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 I just received an SG modern. I love it except for where the front strap button is behind the neck. I asked him if it could be safely moved to the horn and he said yes. I also told him, if you can make the screw hole disappear then do that, otherwise, just leave the original strap button there as well. I gave it to him last Monday, the day after I received it because I wanted to have it ready for when I start my cancer treatment next week. I'll let the pictures tell the rest of the story. I'm devastated and really don't know what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNJ Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Hi Mantastic, sorry to hear about your health issues, hope you prevail over it. As for your guitar, you should push for this guy to keep it and offer you an exact replacement or better yet, the money to replace it. God knows what you would get back from him. Hope you get compensated (and then some) Regards Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, CNJ said: Hi Mantastic, sorry to hear about your health issues, hope you prevail over it. As for your guitar, you should push for this guy to keep it and offer you an exact replacement or better yet, the money to replace it. God knows what you would get back from him. Hope you get compensated (and then some) Regards Tom Thank you Tom. It's all so weird. The guy has supposedly been doing this for many years, I went there - has had more luthier tools than I've ever seen in my life. You're right. And I did give him the guitar back. And when I thought about our conversation we had, I was like "WHAT did he just say before he left?". He said, "don't worry, I have a buddy who does autobody and he can clean these micro-scratches right up for you", I called him and told him to turn around. I told him right then that he didn't know enough about my guitar to work on it, and that it would have to go back to Gibson to fix the damage. I scheduled a video call with Gibson Repair & Restoration on Tuesday. I have no idea what to expect. Tom, more than anything, I'm still confused. This all happened (the end of it) 24 hours ago and I am still in shock. I don't understand what seemed like it had to intentionally be done poorly. How bad can you make the simple removal of a strap button?! A 10 inch circle of scratches? And I had told him specifically, I do a lot of this stuff myself, and if I thought it was easy I wouldn't be giving it to him. I mean I really stressed upon him to err on the side of caution and that I'd rather pay him for doing nothing and tell me it's risky than to get something back that's less than perfect. I mean these were things I said to him before all this happened. That's why it seems so damn weird to me. The whole thing is weird. It makes no sense and that makes it worse. Edited October 16, 2021 by Mantastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 The Dude owes you a new Guitar… Hope you have a full recovery… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Larsongs said: The Dude owes you a new Guitar… Hope you have a full recovery… Thank you, man. I mention the treatment thing because I'm wondering if I made him feel rushed - that's why it might be relevant. I think I left that part out. So you guys think I should just tell him to give me a new one? I mean, I have no problem doing that, but what are the chances he'll respond favorably? Lol... Edited October 16, 2021 by Mantastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBSinTo Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Mantastic, No, he really doesn't owe you a new guitar. Yours has not been damaged beyond repair, and is completely playable, so for some scratches, you expect him to replace it? What he might be liable for is the costs to have the finish restored, if you took him to Small Claims Court. But if cooler heads prevail before that, he should pay for the restoration. But a new guitar? Not a chance. RBSinTo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 The Dude shouldn’t be working on Guitars. If he were a Pro & a Class Act it would’ve been done right no matter what he had to do.. Giving it back to you like that NO WAY!!! If I bring a Repair Tech a new Guitar in perfect condition I expect it to be perfect when I pick it up.. If it isn’t we’ll have a serious problem.. I will end up with a perfect Guitar one way or another… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Oh man. Botch-o-rama. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 2 hours ago, RBSinTo said: Mantastic, No, he really doesn't owe you a new guitar. Yours has not been damaged beyond repair, and is completely playable, so for some scratches, you expect him to replace it? What he might be liable for is the costs to have the finish restored, if you took him to Small Claims Court. But if cooler heads prevail before that, he should pay for the restoration. But a new guitar? Not a chance. RBSinTo That wasn't me saying that. I said the exact same thing you did. I'm going to send it to Gibson to repair and send him the bill. I don't want a new guitar, I want that guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NighthawkChris Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Yeah man sorry about the way that idiot handled your SG. That’s unacceptable and should be responsible for restoration. Yoi can’t trust anyone these days… auto mechanics, luthiers… no one. People today don’t GAF and that’s the problem with everything. They take your money with empty promises in return, then screw your stuff up. Frustrating as all get out. I wish you the best towards happiness and resolve. Thanks for sharing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Wow, that's a real hate crime right there. Like you need this one top of what you're already heading for. What was he thinking? Truly sorry for your troubles man, and prayers your way for health and happiness as you head to treatment. My wife has been through two brushes with "C" as well as 3 of her brothers. I know that you know, it's no joke. Good luck setting that SG right again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNJ Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Hi Mantastic, I still maintain you should approach the guy with a request for a new guitar. Start from a strong stance then you both can accept that he pay to have the guitar restored.. Everybody wins. Keep your spirits up, you'll get thru this, a lot of people here behind you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 It depends on a person's conscience(or lack thereof?). Personally, I could never feel good or comfortable returning that guitar in that condition. I am(I feel) correct in assuming that crack in the horn wasn't there before he did the work? I think you're right in trying to deal with Gibson for the repairs. Since that fool couldn't do it right the first time, what're the chances of him doing it right the second? Or.. EVER? And best of luck with everything else. Whitefang 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 I think there is a reason Gibson put the strap button in the body and not the horn and this thread is proof why. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBSinTo Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, NighthawkChris said: "......Yoi can’t trust anyone these days… auto mechanics, luthiers… no one. People today don’t GAF and that’s the problem with everything. They take your money with empty promises in return, then screw your stuff up. Frustrating as all get out..........." Chris, It must be terribly depressing to live in a world where this is your prevailing philosophy. Yes, these are difficult times for any number of reasons, but to lose all faith in people must be truly soul crushing. My condolences. RBSinTo Edited October 16, 2021 by RBSinTo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: I think there is a reason Gibson put the strap button in the body and not the horn and this thread is proof why. It can be done. Gibson has done it on some models. It's clear though, that the luthier started out not in the middle, but close to the edge. Placement is extremely important, which is why I didn't do it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 3 hours ago, CNJ said: Hi Mantastic, I still maintain you should approach the guy with a request for a new guitar. Start from a strong stance then you both can accept that he pay to have the guitar restored.. Everybody wins. Keep your spirits up, you'll get thru this, a lot of people here behind you. I THINK the best way to go about this is to send it to Gibson Repair & Restoration to bring it back to new and then have him pay the bill. That seems to be the most fair way to go about it. As long as it's not like $2k to repair. There are other "luthiers" out there, but as dramatic as this sounds, the experience traumatized me - I think it has to do with how absolutely unexpected this was and also that it's not a short path to getting it resolved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 I should add that so far, things have been cordial because I restrained myself. And he otherwise seems like a nice guy. He immediately drove to my house to give me my money back. Normally, I would have ripped the guy apart to the point where he would have been asking me if buying a new guitar would be sufficient. But for now, I need to be mature (which at 52 is not me at all lol). Since he seems to have a conscience, I figured this is the best way to approach it for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNJ Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Sounds like a equitable plan. Good luck and enjoy the guitar when you get it back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 10 hours ago, NighthawkChris said: Yoi can’t trust anyone these days… auto mechanics, luthiers… no one. People today don’t GAF and that’s the problem with everything. They take your money with empty promises in return, then screw your stuff up. Frustrating as all get out. Unfortunately that is why we have a court system and lawyers. How about do the work on your own guitar then you have only you to blame. That is the exact reason I only install the strap button in the pre-drilled hole in the body. None of my acoustics have strap buttons anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said: Unfortunately that is why we have a court system and lawyers. How about do the work on your own guitar then you have only you to blame. That is the exact reason I only install the strap button in the pre-drilled hole in the body. None of my acoustics have strap buttons anywhere else. I'm not looking for someone to "blame". It's clear where the responsibility lies. So, you think I should intentionally do work on my guitar that I don't think I can do sagely so I can be mad at myself? This is the first time I've ever given one of my guitars to a luthier. Tbh, I thought I was doing the right thing for a change and being responsible by having a professional do it. That's not my style, but in this case, ai wanted to be extra careful. I was perfectly clear to him that if he didn't think he could do it safely, leave it alone and I'll pay him for his time. So from the first moment I saw the damage, I never even questioned "blame". I think we're on a different level here. This isn't a Fischer Price toy that I found broken and started crying about. About your buttons: that's absolutely fantastic. But I'm not you, and that doesn't really help me at this point. I also have all of my strap locks in all their original holes on every other guitar I own. Are you saying that I don't know where I need the strap buttons to be for me to play comfortably? BTW, many stock photos of this guitar show the button on the back of the upper horn. They have moved it to a very bad place. Yes, it's in the same place as the firebird, and I have one, but that's a totally different guitar with completely different weight distribution, shape and size. Edited October 16, 2021 by Mantastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, Mantastic said: I'm not looking for someone to "blame". It's clear where the responsibility lies. So, you think I should intentionally do work on my guitar that I don't think I can do sagely so I can be mad at myself? This is the first time I've ever given one of my guitars to a luthier. Tbh, I thought I was doing the right thing for a change and being responsible by having a professional do it. That's not my style, but in this case, ai wanted to be extra careful. I was perfectly clear to him that if he didn't think he could do it safely, leave it alone and I'll pay him for his time. So from the first moment I saw the damage, I never even questioned "blame". I think we're on a different level here. This isn't a Fischer Price toy that I found broken and started crying about. About your buttons: that's absolutely fantastic. But I'm not you, and that doesn't really help me at this point. I also have all of my strap locks in all their original holes on every other guitar I own. Are you saying that I don't know where I need the strap buttons to be for me to play comfortably? BTW, many stock photos of this guitar show the button on the back of the upper horn. They have moved it to a very bad place. Yes, it's in the same place as the firebird, and I have one, but that's a totally different guitar with completely different weight distribution, shape and size. So take the guy to court or go back and demand he make it right. One thing is he will not be buying you a new guitar. I’ve never heard of someone who’s auto mechanic messed up a job and had to buy a new car for the customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) I should add that so far, things have been cordial because I restrained myself. And he otherwise seems like a nice guy. He immediately drove to my house to give me my money back. Normally, I would have ripped the guy apart to the point where he would have been asking me if buying a new guitar would be sufficient. But for now, I need to be mature (which at 52 is not me at all lol). Since he seems to have a conscience, I figured this is 24 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said: 24 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said: So take the guy to court or go back and demand he make it right. One thing is he will not be buying you a new guitar. I’ve never heard of someone who’s auto mechanic messed up a job and had to buy a new car for the customer. What is it with this new guitar thing??? I don't want a new guitar! Why do people keep saying I'm not going to get a new guitar. As I said, I LOVE this guitar and want to keep THIS guitar. I responded to one person who said he should buy me a new guitar. I never said that. I told him he can cover the cost of repair OR he can buy the guitar from me and fix it himself. I've never in my life asked for a free guitar, and I'm not looking for free guitars today. I'm only looking to have back the guitar that I took out of the box one week ago. Edited October 16, 2021 by Mantastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 8 minutes ago, Mantastic said: I told him he can cover the cost of repair OR he can buy the guitar from me and fix it himself. I've never in my life asked for a free guitar, and I'm not looking for free guitars today. I'm only looking to have back the guitar that I took out of the box one week ago. I told him he can cover the cost of repair OR he can buy the guitar from me and fix it himself. I doubt he will do the second one either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantastic Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 I told him in a text message to have it in writing. Here's what I wrote and what his initial response is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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