Do The Beatles still hold up to modern music?

[Notes_Norton]

On 11/9/2023 at 9:23 PM, E-minor7 said:

Btw. what is a wind synthesizer ? 

It consists of the controller and the synth modules (or software synths)

The controller looks like a clarinet, fingers more like a sax, flute, recorder, or brass (user's choice). Some have internal synth sounds, mine just puts out MIDI and I use hardware sound modules for the synth voices.

It has MIDI continuous controls for

1. Breath—usually used for volume
2. The reed can sense your lip pressure and can be used for pitch bend, lip slurs (brass), or any of the MIDI continuous controllers (CC)
3. Fingerings for notes
4. On my Yamaha it has a thumb rocker that can be assigned for two different CCs, one up, and one down.

There are 128 continuous controllers, not all of them are appropriate for the wind  synth, but many of them are

It can do things a keyboard controller cannot do, and a keyboard controller can do things the wind controller can not.

To emulate a solo sax, trumpet, trombone, clarinet, and many pure synth voices for a solo part, it allows the player to do a more realistic emulation than you can with a keyboard.

Two examples come to mind.

1. I was playing in the lounge in a country club, and playing a muted trumpet patch. A trumpet player came out of the dining room and into the lounge to see who was sitting in on trumpet.
2. I did a party. The people knew us. This was before I started bringing a guitar to the gig, but used a keyboard instead. We were by the pool, and the host, a guitar player, came out of the house to see who was playing guitar.

Here is what my wind synths look like. The gold and red foil was added by me. A guy on the wind controller forum used to make them.

And here I am playing one, at the birthplace of the US Navy SEALS in Ft. Pierce, Florida.

 

Notes ♫

[Notes_Norton]

On 11/10/2023 at 1:18 AM, Larsongs said:

Rap, in its various names, has been around for about 40 years!!! Can anyone seriously say that’s evolution? I have to agree, music has de-volved..

When I studied music in school, I was taught that to make music you need all three of these elements: Melody, Harmony and Rhythm.

I'm not arguing whether Rap is an art form or not, but I am saying, by the definition I was taught, it isn't music. It has rhythm, sometimes elementary harmony, but no melody. It's no more music than the Beat Poetry of the 1950s.

I'm sure it takes talent to make the rhymes and say them in rhythm, but it's a different art form from music.

I'm not a word person. The last thing I listen to in a song is the words. I go for melody/chords first, then the interplay between all the instruments, and finally, if I like the song, I might get the words. Some songs that I love, I have never listened to all the words.

Other people listen to the words first. There is more than one right way to do this.

But I still say, Rap is an art form that is different from, and not the same as, actual music.

But there are zillions of people who disagree with me.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

 

[PrairieDog]

26 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

When I studied music in school, I was taught that to make music you need all three of these elements: Melody, Harmony and Rhythm.

I'm not arguing whether Rap is an art form or not, but I am saying, by the definition I was taught, it isn't music. It has rhythm, sometimes elementary harmony, but no melody. It's no more music than the Beat Poetry of the 1950s.

I'm sure it takes talent to make the rhymes and say them in rhythm, but it's a different art form from music.

I'm not a word person. The last thing I listen to in a song is the words. I go for melody/chords first, then the interplay between all the instruments, and finally, if I like the song, I might get the words. Some songs that I love, I have never listened to all the words.

Other people listen to the words first. There is more than one right way to do this.

But I still say, Rap is an art form that is different from, and not the same as, actual music.

But there are zillions of people who disagree with me.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

 

Thanks for articulating something I’ve been struggling with.  Don’t want to dis the art form, but always jangled it was called “music.” I think back when we were in school it would have been cataloged under “Spoken Word.” I liked your Beat analogy, probably because I was very fond of my bongos back in the day 😄

[Larsongs]

I’m in total agreement with Norton..

Music or not it has still been the Music Industry Standard for 40 F’n years!

It is way past time for the next big Thing.. 

[E-minor7]

57 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

When I studied music in school, I was taught that to make music you need all three of these elements: Melody, Harmony and Rhythm.

Well, , , don't listen too tight to the schools'n'teachers. They are often behind and late out.

That said I tend to agree - rap etc. is only half-music, , , and shows (as Keith Richards have stated recently) how many people are actually tone-deaf and in order to ride the vibe go for the fashion-trend rather than a conventional musical emotional/intellectual/spiritual exchange. 

                              But at this point we need to define melody, harmony, rhythm.

Is the bird's song fx melody ?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Is disharmony basically to be counted as (distorted/disturbed ) harmony ?  Are the rail-shunting trains A or B ?                                                            Are we aware of steadfast rhythm contra rhythm, mechanical pulse contra organic pulse ?  

 

Thanx for the wind-synth guidance. Will look further into this. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Here is a bar in Nowheresville Michigan I went to.

So Yes.

[Notes_Norton]

On 11/11/2023 at 3:31 PM, E-minor7 said:

Is the bird's song fx melody ? 

The example in school was the birds' song can be melody without harmony or rhythm, or rhythm without melody or harmony, depending on the bird.

I agree.

Regarding rap.

People will buy whatever is promoted. We are herding animals, I suppose.

I listen with musicians' ears, so what affects me isn't necessarily what the general public wants.

I don't think rap is music any more than nothing but a drum solo. Different things, but not music because neither contains all 3 elements.

I play music for a living. I'd love to play jazz, but I like eating and paying the bills so I play pop music.

Here in Florida, ever since I was 40 years old, I targeted the retirement audience. It's a big, steady, profitable market.

When I started, they wanted to hear Frank Sinatra and then Elvis, Beatles and forward. When it comes to the point when they want to hear rap, I'll retire. I can't talk that fast, and find it boring.

I can enjoy simple songs, like the 3 or 4 chord staples, but 1 or 2 chords with no melody crossed the line for me.

But like I said, I don't want to disrespect the art form. It's valid, it's just not music.

And IMO, the academy that give out Grammy Awards, should have kept it as a separate section, and not anything that involves the word song.

But that might stand in the way of corporate profits.

 

Notes ♫

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Notes_Norton
typo

[E-minor7]

36 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

The example in school was the birds' song can be melody without harmony or rhythm, or rhythm without melody or harmony, depending on the bird.

Certainly depending on my mood. .

When bein' in the avantgarde corner, I can hear music from the shunting trains. . 

[E-minor7]

Just now, E-minor7 said:

Certainly depending on my mood. .

When bein' in the avantgarde corner, I can hear music from the shunting trains. . 

But I challenge you as Beatle-fan. Let's go in the cans and listen to Walrus.                                                                                                                                                        Then when the outro starts and begin to fade raise a finger when it's no longer music.                                                                                                    On 7 other seats with similar headphones we invite F. Zappa, G. Martin, P. Glass, L. Anderson, L. Reed, N. Young and R. Zimmerman. 

[Ceptorman]

A new Amazon commercial has the music of "In My Life" playing in the background. It has a few older ladies going down a snow covered hill on sleds.

[E-minor7]

2 hours ago, Ceptorman said:

A new Amazon commercial has the music of "In My Life" playing in the background. It has a few older ladies going down a snow covered hill on sleds.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ❄️ ❄️                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  *    ❄️😲*

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

9 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

But I challenge you as Beatle-fan. Let's go in the cans and listen to Walrus.                                                                                                                                                        Then when the outro starts and begin to fade raise a finger when it's no longer music.                                                                                                    On 7 other seats with similar headphones we invite F. Zappa, G. Martin, P. Glass, L. Anderson, L. Reed, N. Young and R. Zimmerman. 

Does music have to be made with traditional instruments in a structured from?

Edited November 14, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper

[PrairieDog]

46 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Does music have to be made with traditional instruments in a structured from?

If it can carry the tune in some kind of beat, I think it doesn’t matter what is used.  When I was a kid, I rigged up a bunch of pop bottles with water at different levels and puffed out all kinds of “tunes” to the bemusement of my parents.  I managed bits from “In the Hall of the Mountain King” to “Day Dream Believer.”  Granted it was just me, but if I could have gotten anyone else interested I could have set up another pop bottle set.  

Which is also making me rethink the requirement of “harmony.”  As an often unaccompanied singer, I’m not sure I want to say a soaring a cappella lieder singer, or the fellow in an Irish Pub crooning out heartfelt renditions of “Raglan Road” or “Molly Bawn” aren’t making music?

Edited November 14, 2023 by PrairieDog

[Larsongs]

I’m not a fan of Rap. That’s just me.

There are many forms of music around the world that don’t follow our Structured rules for music. Indian music is one.. 

Melody is subjective. If Rap was converted to printed Music.. I believe there would be Notes. Just the change in Timbre & Pitch Rapping the words seems like it would converted to different Notes.. If so, that would be a melody.. 

Is there any way to test this theory?

I’m still not a fan of Rap…

[Ceptorman]

24 minutes ago, Larsongs said:

I’m not a fan of Rap. That’s just me.

There are many forms of music around the world that don’t follow our Structured rules for music. Indian music is one.. 

Melody is subjective. If Rap was converted to printed Music.. I believe there would be Notes. Just the change in Timbre & Pitch Rapping the words seems like it would converted to different Notes.. If so, that would be a melody.. 

Is there any way to test this theory?

I’m still not a fan of Rap…

I'd say add the "C" to that genre of music and leave it alone.

[Larsongs]

28 minutes ago, Ceptorman said:

I'd say add the "C" to that genre of music and leave it alone.

I assume you’re referring to Indian music. Which has Semi tones.. I don’t see them changing anything.

I was just using that as one example of music that doesn’t follow our Rules.. There are others.. Again my point was Melody is subjective.. Even though I’m not a Rap fan that music may have melody.. Just not our traditional way of thinking..

There must be a way to put it to a test.. 

[Ceptorman]

11 minutes ago, Larsongs said:

I assume you’re referring to Indian music. Which has Semi tones.. I don’t see them changing anything.

I was just using that as one example of music that doesn’t follow our Rules.. There are others.. Again my point was Melody is subjective.. Even though I’m not a Rap fan that music may have melody.. Just not our traditional way of thinking..

There must be a way to put it to a test.. 

I meant Rap music.....they left off the C 

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, Ceptorman said:

I meant Rap music.....they left off the C 

The C in Rap music has always been there at the front, its just always been silent and invisible.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper

[E-minor7]

10 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Does music have to be made with traditional instruments in a structured from?

You thereby crystalize my challenge. Another good Q. 

                              "The world is a drum kit"

                                                                       E-minor7 approx 1990

[E-minor7]

7 hours ago, Ceptorman said:

I'd say add the "C" to that genre of music and leave it alone.

Tough, , , ,  and wider known it would probably fuel the lust for entering the genre.
 

Apart from that I actually support the thought of placing it in a category of its own.                                                                                                                                                                                   But it has to be done in a friendly and respectful way.

10 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

 I managed bits from “In the Hall of the Mountain King” to “Day Dream Believer.”  Granted it was just me, but if I could have gotten anyone else interested I could have set up another pop bottle set.  

Talent will spring when talent springs. .
I for 1 would have liked to hear such concert. Does old footage exist. .  

[Pinch]

Any sounds  you enjoy in song format is music to you.