Gilliangirl Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 How many cents is a half step? One fret. Two frets down is a full step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Isn't it great!? I love what it does for some of my guitars (magic doesn't do so well tuned down). But the J-185 sounds so big and chimey and rich. And even if you capo up' date=' it still has that sloppy string sound, which I love. Peter Mulvey plays some of his songs tuned down a full step, then capoed at 2 which makes it standard. But you still get that loose string sound because it's tuned down. [/quote'] oooh mulvey is a favorite. "bright idea" is great.. i'm really digging this. you've been a big help with this and the other tuning thread, GG. thanks so much! it's a whole new thang for me and has really increased my enjoyment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilliangirl Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 oooh mulvey is a favorite. "bright idea" is great.. i'm really digging this. you've been a big help with this and the other tuning thread' date=' GG. thanks so much! it's a whole new thang for me and has really increased my enjoyment![/quote']Bright idea is great. I like Mulvey's version of Oliver's Army. It's my favourite version of that song (sorry Elvis). I think that's one of the songs that he tunes down. His website has a list of all his tunings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tw2_usa Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Add to that a Legend J-45 and that Coco/Adi AJ. My wallet hurts just thinking about it. Played on one of these yesterday. Some would say overpriced, including me. I wonder if it's doable in this economy for under $4K? Regardless, what an awesome guitar. It makes six strings sound like an orchestra. Also found an 08 J-45TV sitka that sounded awesome. Great fundamental, but the Legend has fundamental, mysterious overtones, perfect decay when needed, perfect sustain when wanted, and the neck is just too unique for words. It both challenges and supports the hand to make the best notes and chords possible. The TV was the best overall for what it is - a fine, fine guitar, but the Legend was somehow more than that, a fine, fine instrument. And, to stay on topic for the lurking purists, if I bought one, I would tune it down half a step! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maninblack Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 tomwood2u, Do you mind me asking where you found this gem? There are no legends with in 4 hours of my house (i've checked around). If I can't play the one I buy, I'd love to get one audtioned and approved by a fellow forum member. What were they asking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tw2_usa Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 This one is at GC Hollywood on Sunset Blvd. I was surprised to see it about four months ago. Pretty sure it's the same one. Asking 6999. This guitar is overall a bit understated, including the tone, although the orange in the pickguard stripes are wider and bolder than most. This guitar really sings, it adds clear dynamic overtones economically in the trebles. Bass thumps, chunk, take your pick... Decays when you expect it without asking. Sustains just the same. The neck seems like a new form of negotiation, large - mostly I'm a rhythm/accompanying player, not a soloist and don't work up the neck other than barre chords. I played these, mostly in E position, up to 12 and pretty, sweet strums. I strummed a pounding crecendo in E and it stayed solid, that neck size really lets you get a grip on for hard strumming. Understated and powerful, it sings and parties. Not tinny or "bright" but sweet and clear and mellow. I know you are a seriously advanced guitarist. I'm a lifelong musician but only on the guitar past two years but daily. Anyhow. Good luck. The TV's I sampled were at a place called West LA Music which serves the movie studios and the guitars they stock are both great instruments for the studio musicians and also look good in case they're bought as props. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6stringTom Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Interesting bit of trivia about Paul McCartney and "Yesterday." I play it in F chord positions and capo up to G for my vocal range. On down-tuning, i don't do it, but I do hear a very different quality when I play my J-45 in open D tuning. It is more powerful than in standard tuning, so maybe it's time I tried dropping standard down a notch to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vourot Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 So if I wanted to say, put my AJ in drop D I could capo at the 2nd fret , tune to E then remove the capo and be in drop D? That sounds like an easy way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Just a note about tuning down to take stress of the neck. the neck is made as well as the bracing to take the stress. If its designed for medium strings. Some guitars are voiced for lights. Like my Stave Swan/Santa Cruz SSJ (Roy Smeck). It is true that most modern guitars are build to take the tension of medium strings. A tweak of the truss rod will get your action back to where it was with lights. The increase in tension isn't to much to handle for a guitar over time. The increase from light to medium Elixirs for example is only about 20lbs overall. When it comes to 12 strings however, not only do they sound better tuned down a half or a full step (IMO) it takes significant tension off the neck which is already pulling on double the strain. My Taylor 12 string (25.5" scale) with light gauge Elixirs has a tension of 256.70lbs in concert pitch. Compare that to my Songwriter (same scale) with Elixir lights at 163.26lbs. That's almost 100lbs more tension on the neck. When you tune the Taylor down a full step you lose 53lbs of tension off the neck. Since a 12 string carries more tension normally, I would think you would add more longevity to the guitar tuned down 1/2 or a full step. At least you'd put off a neck reset for a couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 So if I wanted to say' date=' put my AJ in drop D I could capo at the 2nd fret , tune to E then remove the capo and be in drop D? That sounds like an easy way to do it. [/quote'] Firstly, that wouldn't be "drop D". Drop D is DADGBE. I think what you're talking about is tune down one full step to DGCFAD and there is an easier way than using the capo. Play your open fourth string (D) and tune your low E sixth string to match it in D. Then tune the rest of the guitar as you would normally fretting the fifth fret on your sixth string and matching the fifth string to it. Fifth fret on the fifth string and match the fourth string to it. Fifth fret on the fourth string and match the third string to it. Fourth fret on the third string and match the second string to it. Fifth fret on the second string and match the first string to it. Voila! You're in DGCFAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vourot Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Actually I did just mean tuning the low E to D. I figured since capoing at the 2nd fret is one full step down, that capoing at the second, then tuning low E to standard pitch , then removing the capo would leave the low E tuned to D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilliangirl Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Vourot, I'm having a hard time following that but I think I know what you mean. If you capo at the second fret, you're tuning UP a full step, not down, right? So if you did a partial capo and only capoed the top 5 strings (A D G B E) and left the low E in standard, you would essentially have the same effect as drop D but just not the same key. Does that make sense? You'd have to leave the capo on the top 5 strings. Some capos will do that or you can buy partial capos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 You havent lived life without playing a jumbo on the low e string tuned to D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vourot Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 GG, I'm going on the principle of what I do to go down a half step. If I can capo the first fret, then tune to standard pitch, remove the capo then the guitar is tuned down a half step. So my thinking was that if I capo at the second, tune the low E to standard pitch. ( tune down the string then up to standard ) then remove the capo ,the low E should be in D. I don't think I'm explaining myself very well. Its best just to try it I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 GG' date=' I'm going on the principle of what I do to go down a half step. If I can capo the first fret, then tune to standard pitch, remove the capo then the guitar is tuned down a half step. So my thinking was that if I capo at the second, tune the low E to standard pitch. ( tune down the string then up to standard ) then remove the capo ,the low E should be in D. I don't think I'm explaining myself very well. Its best just to try it I think.[/quote'] My point was, why go through all this hassle when there is a D on your guitar in standard pitch already. Just pluck the D string and tune the low E to D until it matches? Takes me about a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6stringTom Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Vourot, You are right, but to many of us it seems a round-about way to get to the lower tuning. drathbun is correct about the difference between drop-D and tuning a full note below standard pitch. This should also be distinguished from the open D tuning I mentioned, which is D-A-D-F#-A-D. The latter is a common open chord tuning for playing bottle neck blues, and that's the tuning where I heard my J-45 come to life in a special way. I didn't intend to confuse matters, just to note that I had heard a real difference in tone with an alternative tuning, which happens to be lower overall than standard tuning. Most of the discussion in this thread has been about remaining in standard tuning in terms of the relative tuning of each note, but dropping the pitch of each string the same amount in order to get to a preferred sound from the guitar. In these "lowered pitch" tunings, the standard chord positions still apply, which is not the case in either drop-D or open D tunings. At the risk of stating the obvious, when tuning "the low E to D until it matches" drathbun means to tune it to match but an octave lower. This is how I always do the drop-D tuning, but it would be easy to move from there to the "lowered pitch" tuning starting with a D. I hope I've clarified and not added to any confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Absolutely correct Tom! Also, if you do a LOT of moving from standard to Drop D tuning, you can get yourself a Hipshot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vourot Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Well, I guess I should have mentioned that if I didn't have a tuner it would take me forever to tune by ear. The drop D thing is obvious, but since I don't trust my ear I just use the capo. round about way to do it? Probably but it doesn't really take that much extra time. I bought an alternate tunings book about 15 years ago. Pretty simple and straight forward with nice diagrams and I still can't do it properly. I guess I should just use it more to get the hang of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 My little Epiphone EL-00 is pretty easy to play with its short scale. I like the sound of a 24.75 inch guitar. I wonder why Gibson doesn't make more shorter scale acoustics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maninblack Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 I always thought Gibson made more shorter scale acoustics than most. Their standard scale is certainly shorter than Martins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playon Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Norman Blake used to keep his main guitar (a 1930s 12-fret Martin dred) tuned down to E flat, you can hear that guitar on his first album. Ry Cooder is another guy who believes that any steel string guitar sounds better tuned lower, he has mentioned that in interviews. The tuning of guitars is a totally arbitrary thing, the decision to standardize guitar tuning (and to a lesser degree scale length) for classical music was made centuries ago when guitars were tiny and strings were made of animal guts. It really it has nothing to do with modern steel string guitars, why not tune your guitar any way that sounds good. I had a friend who kept his vintage J-185 (short scale) and 30s Roy Smeck both tuned down to CGCEGC. It seems weird as they are both short scale guitars but they sounded great. Lower tuning also lets you use heavier strings than normal which can give better tone, and better intonation. You do need a different touch when the strings are slacker though. I keep one of my guitars tuned to G or D most of the time, besides the altered tuning it just sounds bigger down there. I also have a personal theory that if the top of the guitar has less string tension on it, it is freer to vibrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 been playin' the j45 tv 1/2 step down for days now. love it. just tuned down the AJ. wow. lotta tweaking of the pitch though. still, my fun level and endurance is up! and, look out, i'm singing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilliangirl Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 been playin' the j45 tv 1/2 step down for days now. love it. just tuned down the AJ. wow. lotta tweaking of the pitch though. still' date=' my fun level and endurance is up! and, look out, i'm singing... [/quote']Rob, you have a great voice, I love it. That song you did by whatsername....... oh shoot, I can't remember her name. Dusty Springfield I think. Anyway, you've got a great voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Rob' date=' you have a great voice, I love it. That song you did by whatsername....... oh shoot, I can't remember her name. Dusty Springfield I think. Anyway, you've got a great voice.[/quote'] karen, you're very kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6stringTom Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 drathburn, thanks for the photo of the hipshot. I hadn't heard of it before. Guitarists certainly spawn a lot of interesting gadgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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