Josh James Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 I was wanting to change the tubes in my deville 4x10. Someone told me you can get tubes that will help your amp break up quicker? I really love natural tube distortion, but that amp is so loud I have to hit 5 on the volume before any breakup. Ooo, btw got a Stereo Electric Mistress on the way! J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Josh you could try using a power break (power attenuator). You will still get natural tube distortion, but at a lower volume. It's always a problem when you have a powerful amplifier. Although I have a couple of big amps I'm tending to use smaller amps like my old Fender vibro champs and Fender Blues Junior now, even live, and I just have the amp miked up. That way I can have the amp at full volume and drive the tubes and still be loud enough at a gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 What KL said. If I remember right on most of the Fender amps can't you take out some of the tubes to cut the power in half? someone else may know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californiaman Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Yes, a powerbreak is a good investment if you want to get that overdriven tube distortion. If that DeVille has 12ax7s in it, you're on the right track. I'd look into the Dr. Z airbrake or another attenuator. Also, smaller wattage amplifiers like the old Fender Vibro Champs, Super Champ, Blues Jr., and newer low watt boutique amplifiers like the Carr Raleigh, are pretty much the way to go for a lot of musicians. Aerosmith did much of their early recording with nothing but the old Vibro Champs, Deluxes, and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameslucascalvert Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 You can put 12au7's in place of the 12ax7 preamp tubes...it'll break up at a lower volume, but probably not noticably enough, and you'll burn them up quicker, too....so yeah, an attenuator is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh James Posted April 21, 2010 Author Share Posted April 21, 2010 The "brakes" are kind of expensive, might as well get a second hand blues junior...lol I guess when I bought the amp I thought that it would sound ok at lower volumes, but live it has to be at 3 for it to sound like I want it. In my band the other guitarist has a vintage mod Deluxe and a 2x12 musicman and my amp even at 2 drowns his out...which sucks...mehhhhh JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiz Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 I've had the same 'problem' with my Valve Jr. I just couldn't get it to break up without annoying my neighbors. Nothing beats that cranked tube tone. One thing I do (rather than buy an attenuator -they're like $150-$200) is use a pedal to overdrive the tubes at a lower volume. I use either a Big Muff PI, or a Boss DS-1 and I get a good tone. Also, congrats on the Electric Mistress. You won't be disappointed. -It's like 2 pedals (chorus and flange) in one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh James Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 Do those pedals really overdrive the tubes or is it just the effect of tube breakup? I use to have a Russian Muff but traded it for the Catalyst, which I love and I drive that with the ts. The Muff was totally useless in a band situation....ie scooped mids. Thanks Twiz...I'm geeked about the possibilities. Also, I'm new here, so thanks everyone for being cool. JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiz Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Do those pedals really overdrive the tubes or is it just the effect of tube breakup?... You know, I'm not sure. If I had to guess, I'd say that they don't actually force the tube break up sound. The reason I say that is the distortion I get with a pedal sounds way different than if I just turn the knob to 10. -There are a ton of people on here that know way more about this stuff than me. It might be in your best interest to go for that attenuator after all. At least with that, you'll be getting the same tone as if you cranked the amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Do those pedals really overdrive the tubes or is it just the effect of tube breakup Pedals vary in what's going on within themselves and how they affect amp tone, but in general, outboard overdrive/distortion style pedals are overdriving the first preamp tube. The distortion is created in the preamp, not the power section, and as we know, the sweet compressed, harmonic-filled tube tone we love resides in the power tubes. I went throught the 100w Marshall phase back in the 70's which is why my right ear rings to this very day. I bought one of what I think was the first attenuator to hit the market, SRD's Power Soak, and it was better. But power soaks don't allow you to control the breakup with your guitar volume - it's nearly impossible to get a clean tone while using a soak. Over the years I discovered that low powered amps were the solution, and amps sporting the 6V6 output tube were the ticket. My personal fav is the Fender Deluxe. I gigged with one of 1958 vintage for many years and it never disappointed. About 16W or so, the pair of 6V6's delivered the tone night in and night out. Sweet, full and clean with the guitar volume dialed down a bit, and raucous & raunchy with the guitar wide open. Perfect. Distortion in your hands, not a pedal. It is the power tubes that respond to player touch. Get yourself a 6V6 powered amp and you'll understand this fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 First Link Here is a great review and what Soaks really do.... Second Link Breaks are also known as Soaks (the original name way back when) because thats what they do is soak up the power. I have never owned one but have used them and yes they are expensive but what they do is very important. Also don't touch the damn thing like i did after using one for about 30 minutes; those fins (older one I was using) are way cool looking but get real hot... Your taking a amp and pushing it to a extreme volume or so it thinks you are all the while its a very controllable volume. Some even have direct outs to boards if memory serves.. MP3 Link 1 A Suhr Tele with humbuckers into a cranked THD Plexi' date=' attenuated down with the Hot Plate and the same riff repeated.[/url'] MP3 Link 2 This is the same track but for every 4 dB step of attenuation the level at the mixer was brought up 4 dB in order to allow a comparison of the attenuated sound at the same level. Recorded close miked with a SM57 on a Celestion Vintage30 into the Roland VS recorder. Wow, thanks man!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 This is why the tube screamer is so popular and useful. It takes your guitar signal and increases it so that when it hits the pre-amp tube is pushes the tube into that break up zone. I don't remember off the top of my head the layout of your amp, but the first part of any tube amp circuit sends the guitar signal into a pre-amp tube (hence the "pre") this tube increases the signal of the guitar. If your amp has more than one pre-amp tube each one increases or builds upon the previous one thus more signal gain as the signal moves thru the circuit. I say all of that to simply iterate - if you increase the gain going into the amp you will achieve break up sooner on your pre-amp tubes. This means that you can turn the amp volume down and get the crunch you seek. Now, power tube break up is something entirely different. These are at the other end of the circuit and this is where the already mentioned power breaks/soaks/attenuators come into play. To the discerning ear there is a change in sound simply due to the way they work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Do those pedals really overdrive the tubes or is it just the effect of tube breakup? JJ Actually they do both. However, some are designed to specifically sound like amp distortion such as the Marshall Guv'nor. Others are designed to increase the guitar signal to push the tube into break up - the Ibanez Tube Screamer for example. The truth is that they both increase the signal and by themselves (going into a clean solid state amp) they both can have a "distortion" sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiz Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Buc McMaster & djroge1, that's great information guys. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh James Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 Here I figured that all the good question's had been asked already and people were rolling their eyes at me..lol Thanks for all the informative material, shall make my decision easier. I'm 28 and most of my life gigging and such has been with a acoustic, so I know how those roll pretty much, but electric has a ton of variables and I want to be in control, not the gear. Another question, does anyone run all their amp EQ dimed out or all the way up? I feel like it gives things a fuller, richer sound, especially for clean tones. Thanks so much. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwness Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Considering how much the hotplate is 328.00 I would by a small tube head. I picked up a 2 month old Blackstar HT-5 for 225.00 ( 400 new) 5 watts and it cooks. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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