Installing an Under Saddle Pickup

[Andre S]

How hard is it?

 

Last night, I removed the saddle ( took a little pull from a pair of pliers) to lower the action. I noticed that in one corner of the saddle slot, there is a small hole, it does not continue through the guitar's top however, it is just through the saddle slot.

 

To install an undersaddle pickup, would I just need to continue that hole through the top and solder it to the endpin jack?

 

Or would it be easier to install the Fishman iBeam?

I know how to solder so thats not a problem.

 

There was a video on youtube, showing the installation of a Juan Carlos Eric Clapton model pickup, but it seems to have been taken down and replaced with the installation of a Juan Carlos pickup on a classical guitar,

[nodehopper]

Install a K&K Pure Western Mini and don't drill a hole in the top and no soldering !

 

 

Will sound much more natural than any UST ....unless you will be on stage with high SPL .....that would be the only reason to go with an UST

 

 

http://www.kksound.com/purewestern.html

 

 

IMHO of course :-

[pohatu771]

I installed one - it's very easy. The worst part is drilling out a larger endpin hole, but there are alternatives to that, too.

[watchunglava]

can't stand acoustic pickups, just mic it or use an electric .

[Andre S]

Install a K&K Pure Western Mini and don't drill a hole in the top and no soldering !

 

 

Will sound much more natural than any UST ....unless you will be on stage with high SPL .....that would be the only reason to go with an UST

 

 

http://www.kksound.com/purewestern.html

 

 

IMHO of course

 

 

Okay

 

UST: Under Saddle Transducer?

SPL ?

[drathbun]

How hard is it?

 

Last night' date=' I removed the saddle ( took a little pull from a pair of pliers) to lower the action. I noticed that in one corner of the saddle slot, there is a small hole, it does not continue through the guitar's top however, it is just through the saddle slot.

 

To install an undersaddle pickup, would I just need to continue that hole through the top and solder it to the endpin jack?

 

Or would it be easier to install the Fishman iBeam?

I know how to solder so thats not a problem.

 

There was a video on youtube, showing the installation of a Juan Carlos Eric Clapton model pickup, but it seems to have been taken down and replaced with the installation of a Juan Carlos pickup on a classical guitar,[/quote']

 

 

You should not have to solder anything when installing a UST pickup. If you want a UST then just continue drilling that hole (on and angle ramped down and away from the saddle. Then you can feed the UST lead down through to the endpin jack.

 

The LRBaggs Element is an excellent UST. I have one in my SWD. However, if you were thinking of the LRBaggs iBeam, I think they are the best sounding acoustic pickup out there. Warm and balanced. They are prone to feedback in live situations but just use a FuzzBuster soundhole cover. In a live situation you might want to add the LRBaggs belt clip preamp to help the guitar compete with other instruments.

 

The good thing about the installation of the iBeam is that you aren't drilling through the guitar and it is easily removable with no signs that it was present (except the required endpin jack hole which you'd need in any case).

[drathbun]

can't stand acoustic pickups' date=' just mic it or use an electric .[/quote']

 

I'd say that was a classic broad generalization as there are quite a few excellent sounding acoustic pickups these days.

[Andre S]

Install a K&K Pure Western Mini and don't drill a hole in the top and no soldering ! :D

 

 

Will sound much more natural than any UST ....unless you will be on stage with high SPL .....that would be the only reason to go with an UST

 

 

http://www.kksound.com/purewestern.html

 

 

IMHO of course :) :D

 

 

The KK Pure Western Mini looks nice, do I need a preamp such as

 

http://www.kksound.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=KOS&Product_Code=PUPA&Category_Code=PA

[pohatu771]

You should not have to solder anything when installing a UST pickup. If you want a UST then just continue drilling that hole (on and angle ramped down and away from the saddle. Then you can feed the UST lead down through to the endpin jack.

When I installed the pickup in my Martin, I had to solder the pickup wire onto a circuit board at the jack.

[nodehopper]

NO the K&K doesn't necessarily need the pre-amp. I will occasionally plug my K&K directly into my Fishman Loudbox 100 amp or Mixer with it still sounding good. The K&K pick ups have a good strong signal. The K&K pre-amp, while not required, was something I bought simply because it was made to work specifically with that pick up for ideal sound.

 

I just play at home and with friends so I don't have to worry about feedback. My comment on using and Under Saddle Transducer = UST pick up only for a high Sound Pressure Level = SPL environment is that from what I understand any acoustic pick up that uses an internal mic or sound board contact mic can have some feedback issues if you were to play REALLY loud environments.

 

I have a small music room and I sit like 2 feet away from my amp ...myself and guitar facing directly at the amp (playing fairly loud to my ears) and have not had any feedback issue with the K&K. Maybe other folks have had issues, but in my research before buying mine it sounded like you would have to be playing really loud or with a loud band before it becomes an issue.

 

They do make a smaller 1/8th inch endpin jack that requires no drilling so if you wanted you can keep your "Baby" completely unaltered and still have a really nice pick up.

 

http://www.kksound.com/vintagejack.html

[Andre S]

NO the K&K doesn't necessarily need the pre-amp. I will occasionally plug my K&K directly into my Fishman Loudbox 100 amp or Mixer with it still sounding good. The K&K pick ups have a good strong signal. The K&K pre-amp' date=' while not required, was something I bought simply because it was made to work specifically with that pick up for ideal sound.

 

I just play at home and with friends so I don't have to worry about feedback. My comment on using and Under Saddle Transducer = UST pick up only for a high Sound Pressure Level = SPL environment is that from what I understand any acoustic pick up that uses an internal mic or sound board contact mic can have some feedback issues if you were to play REALLY loud environments.

 

I have a small music room and I sit like 2 feet away from my amp ...myself and guitar facing directly at the amp (playing fairly loud to my ears) and have not had any feedback issue with the K&K. Maybe other folks have had issues, but in my research before buying mine it sounded like you would have to be playing really loud or with a loud band before it becomes an issue.

 

They do make a smaller 1/8th inch endpin jack that requires no drilling so if you wanted you can keep your "Baby" completely unaltered and still have a really nice pick up.

 

http://www.kksound.com/vintagejack.html

 

 

 

 

Yea I saw that, but I think somewhere on the site I saw that it doesn't offer the same qualities as the 1/4 inch.

[gizeh68]

If you're a gigging musician who plays in clubs, bars, and on stage, you can't really mic the guitar. Its not going to pick it up enough to travel over a drum kit, electric bass and another electric guitar. And besides, mic'ed acoustics limit your movement. where i come from (DC area), if you aren't moving around on stage, you won't be asked back to play.

 

Regarding the installation of UST pickups, i had trouble with my Epiphone's pickup. If the wood under the saddle isn't cut just right, the UST isn't going to have good string balance. Some strings are going to be severely quiet unless you're careful. Just something to consider. Don't know if its the same with more expensive guitars or not.

[Andre S]

If you're a gigging musician who plays in clubs' date=' bars, and on stage, you can't really mic the guitar. Its not going to pick it up enough to travel over a drum kit, electric bass and another electric guitar. And besides, mic'ed acoustics limit your movement. where i come from (DC area), if you aren't moving around on stage, you won't be asked back to play.

 

Regarding the installation of UST pickups, i had trouble with my Epiphone's pickup. If the wood under the saddle isn't cut just right, the UST isn't going to have good string balance. Some strings are going to be severely quiet unless you're careful. Just something to consider. Don't know if its the same with more expensive guitars or not.[/quote']

 

Hmm..thanks, anyway I was trying to avoid UST's and soundhole pickups...

 

I prefer the bridge plate pickups like the iBeam and the K&K

[KL]

How hard is it?

 

To install an undersaddle pickup' date=' would I just need to continue that hole through the top and solder it to the endpin jack?

 

[/quote']

 

Installing an undersaddle does usually require a small hole to be drilled through the top to let the wire from the transducer through into the guitar and then to the preamp (it it has one) and then the endpin jack socket.

 

However, placement of this hole is important. It is possible to drill through a top brace if you drill the hole in the wrong place. So do not just continue the 'hole' that you saw without checking it is in the correct position. Get a luthier to show you the best place to drill, or better still get them to do it. Generally the hole is drilled on the bass side of the bridge, but some people drill on the treble side (one of mine was done like that).

 

Hope that helps!

[Andre S]

Installing an undersaddle does usually require a small hole to be drilled through the top to let the wire from the transducer through into the guitar and then to the preamp (it it has one) and then the endpin jack socket.

 

However' date=' placement of this hole is important. It is possible to drill through a top brace if you drill the hole in the wrong place. So do not just continue the 'hole' that you saw without checking it is in the correct position. Get a luthier to show you the best place to drill, or better still get them to do it. Generally the hole is drilled on the bass side of the bridge, but some people drill on the treble side (one of mine was done like that).

 

Hope that helps!

 

[/quote']

 

No luthiers in this part of the Caribbean....sighs.

 

This one is drilled on the bass side and doesn't seem to be above a brace

[drathbun]

Good advice KL! If you need to drill the slanted hole, read the directions from the pickup as they give all the appropriate cautions with little diagrams as well.

[drathbun]

When I installed the pickup in my Martin' date=' I had to solder the pickup wire onto a circuit board at the jack.[/quote']

 

I guess I was talking about the LRBaggs Element UST. The lead was already soldered to the board. The only soldering necessary is if you want to attach a second pickup to the preamp circuit board (I did this on an Epiphone EJ160e).

[watchunglava]

I'd say that was a classic broad generalization as there are quite a few excellent sounding acoustic pickups these days.

 

 

 

example?

 

they all sound buzzy and tinny to me.

[drathbun]

example?

 

they all sound buzzy and tinny to me.

 

 

Have you tried a K&K or iBeam Active iBeam? To my ears they are just the opposite of that dreaded piezo quack.

 

Your mileage may vary.

[Jinder]

example?

 

they all sound buzzy and tinny to me.

 

the bottom line with USTs is that if your guitar is set up poorly and has fret buzz or chokes out under strumming, this will be magnified the frequencies evident in a piezo pickup.

 

My SJ200 is a classic example of this-prior to it's recent refret, it sounded pretty shabby plugged in-the frets were shot and it suffered from noticeable fret buzz whilst playing acoustically too. The refret and accompanying setup improved the sound no end, and it now sounds lush and harmonically rich when plugged in. The UST in it is a Fishman Acoustic Matrix Natural II.

 

Saddle material makes a big difference, too. A UST under a bone saddle can sound blocky in the midrange and will often suffer string-to-string balance issues. Generic plastic will sound thin and quacky. Tusq is an excellent synthetic bone alternative which really excels with USTs.

 

If USTs really aren't your bag, there are some superb SBTs (K&K, Baggs iBeam) on the Market as mentioned. I love these pickups, although feedback can be an issue if you're playing with a loud drummer and need loud onstage monitoring.

 

If SBTs still aren't doing it for you, there are some fantastic soundhole pickups out there-the "big two", for me, are the LR Baggs M1 (plenty of M1 users here, this is a revolutionary pickup which not only operates magnetically, but also "hears" the guitar's top through two vibration sensors, resulting in a sound that is warm but cuts through a mix well) and the Fishman Rare Earth Blend, a magnetic pickup with a gooseneck-mounted mic for hyperreal sonic reproduction with the added cut of a mag pickup.

 

It's easy to criticise, but to knock all pickup systems is a sweeping generalisation. There are some highly evolved units out there which are begging to be heard.

 

Mic-ing is nice, but rarely an option. As a working musician, I know the quickest way to p1ss off a soundman is to ask him to mic an acoustic, especially in a band situation. It makes feedback management a nightmare, causes untold monitoring problems and renders the acoustic player completely mic-bound. Playing electric isn't an option if you play the kind of folk-oriented stuff that I do. A Tele at the neck pup is nice, but still too aggressive, and an archtop is pleasant but too jazzy/bluesy to use for everything (although I like to whip mine out whenever it suits!) so you're pretty much stuck with a plugged in acoustic.

[Murph]

My '03 J45 has a Fishman (I don't remember which one) from the factory and sounds GREAT either through my Carvin acoustic amp, or the house p.a.

 

Tinny or buzzy doesn't describe it's tone at all.

 

[KL]

My '03 J45 has a Fishman (I don't remember which one) from the factory and sounds GREAT either through my Carvin acoustic amp' date=' or the house p.a.

[/quote']

 

That will almost certainly be the same system I have in my 2003 J-45. It does sound good, but Feedback can be a problem. I used it at a gig last night and I only had one feedback buster with me. As long as my fingers were in contact with the strings it's fine, but if I took them off it would cause feedback. Need to buy another back buster.

 

It seems that Gibson and others are using more and more of the Fishman and Baggs systems with soundhole controls and these mean you can't install a backbuster. Anyone had this problem?

[KL]

No luthiers in this part of the Caribbean....sighs.

 

Oh . . . ok . . . can you use Amazon? If so you could buy a book like Guitar Repair Player Guide (maybe some others here can suggest others) that gives instructions on how to install an undersaddle yourself.

 

Also choose the transducer carefully as some require the use of special tools which you may not have. For example. I have a Headway transducer in my D-28 and installation of that one requires a small amount of accurate routing under the saddle. The reason being that some transducers have a flat filament (which may be the way to go if you're doing it for the first time) and others (like the Headway) have a filament with a D shaped profile. The semicircular side of the filament is mounted towards the guitar and the slot needs to be routed out into an accurate semicircle to accept the filament. Headway can supply a special tool to do this (not expensive). The route needs to be accurate so that there is uniform contact of the filament with the guitar bridge. Otherwise you will get irregularities in the sound quality pickup across all the strings. Also if the filament does have a D shaped profile and you mount it upside down then you do not get good contact with the saddle (as the saddle will be resting on a curved surface rather than a flat one).

 

I hope this helps.

[Jinder]

KL, I use Busters whenever I'm out live. My solution for my Baggs equipped guitars has been to gently remove the volume wheel and relocate it so it's JUST behind the lip of the soundhole. A little downward pressure (push the wheel gently into the soundhole) and the sticky backed plastic pad peels right off the top. A little superglue and it's relocated, even more secure than before, and the buster slips right in!

[KL]

Oh . . . ok . . . so they are just attached with double sided sticky tape? That's good as inevitably I'll end up with a guitar with one on soon and I wasn't looking forward to trying to get the glue off.

 

That Fishman one though . . . I think it's the ellipse?? has a whole little curved control panel round one side of the soundhole and I don't know how people manage with them. Any idea or experience?