guitarfish Posted April 29, 2010 Share Posted April 29, 2010 Hey guys, now that I've had my 335 for a few months, I've been meaning to post a pic and ask for some opinions. The top of this pic is my Gibson LP bridge, and the bottom is my 335. The bridge on the 335 seems slanted a bit too much IMO. Can you compare to yours? What do you think? Is this something that needs correction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevoT Posted April 29, 2010 Share Posted April 29, 2010 Looks like its had a bit of a knock there 0.o ordid it come like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarfish Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 Came like that. I've only had it 3 mos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Rayba Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 If you notice, the 335 doesn't have the extra nut against the body which would give the screw some support! Also, it is possible the screws aren't long enough which could possibly make them bend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjohnson Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Here is what looks like is going on... The bevels on the adjustable saddles are 'backwards' (maybe), but at the least the wound strings are caught/catching in the notch(es). Whenever you tighten the strings, you are literally pulling the bridge over towards the neck. Take the tension off all the strings ASAP, especially the bass side/wound ones and remove them. You'll probably see a nice kink in the string(s) that are doing the pulling. "Correct" the bridge/saddles - POSSIBLY the bevels on the bridge could face the tail on the bass side - but it seems the 335/336/339 come with the low E & A 'reversed' - supposedly to allow more room for intonation. I can't find anything definitive on 'how it should be' so it shouldn't matter as long as they work. It is easier to get the strings to pass over the saddle with the bevels towards the rear, but I would smooth out the notches so they don't snag in either case. Maybe you'll need to straighten the screw(s), maybe it'll stand right back up on its own. I would also lower the thumb screws a bit IF the neck angle allows it. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarfish Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 Thank you jmg...I agree, based on some of the comments I got here and on TGP. This will be my project for the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sok66 Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Hey guys' date=' now that I've had my 335 for a few months, I've been meaning to post a pic and ask for some opinions. The top of this pic is my Gibson LP bridge, and the bottom is my 335. The bridge on the 335 seems slanted a bit too much IMO. Can you compare to yours? What do you think? Is this something that needs correction? [img']http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/guitarfish/Guitars/BridgeComparo.jpg[/img] Guitarfish, you're comparing a Nashville bridge, which has threaded sleeves pressed into the body, with a venerable ABR-1 which has simple threaded screws for bridge studs. The problem you're pointing out has occurred with ABR-1s since they were first introduced in the 50s. There are a variety of issues with ABR-1s. The stud holes are often in the wrong places, and drilled at the wrong angle, usually as yours, tipping towards the bridge, often to a degree that the saddles can't be set for proper intonation. The anchoring studs are simply too short and are made of brass, which is too soft to endure the amount of string tension they're subjected to and thus they bend towards the nut. This is of course made even worse if the holes were drilled at too steep an angle. Add to this the tendency of the ABR1's saddle screw retaining wire to rattle, the narrow width of the bridge itself, which limits effective intonation travel, the tendency of the saddle adjusting screws to "walk up" towards the string when the saddle reach the ends of the slots, etc., etc. It goes on. To fix all this, Gibson introduced the Nashville bridge in the 70s, which corrects all those issues. Gib-O thought we'd all praise the heavens and they could jettison the troublesome ABR-1. But NO, we still love the old girl and some claim it's tonally superior. So, what to do? First and foremost replace the dreaded brass studs with longer one made of stainless steel. You can simply go to the hardware store and get some 1 1/2" stainless steel machine screws of the same thread pitch as the originals, cut the heads off with a Dremel wheel, double-nut the new screws, thread them into the body until they bottom out, reinstall the thumbwheels and bridge, restring, set the action and mark any excess screw above the bridge. Remove the strings & bridge, cut off the excess & smooth out the top of the screw. Reinstall the bridge, voila, tough as nails bridge studs standing taller than a Marine Sergeant. You'll notice an improvement & tone and sustain, too. If the holes were drilled properly you should now be able to get your saddles adjusted right, plus you should be able to lower the tailpiece a bit. For an even older ABR-1 trick, bound to take you to tone heaven, if you can stand the way it looks, put a second set of thumbwheels on the studs and run them down snug to the top of the body. These will support the studs even more and transmit more vibration to the body. (Find old pics of James Gang era Joe Walsh and his Sunburst Les Paul and you'll see he had it set up this way four decades ago.) You may have to flip some saddles around and re-notch them to get everything intonated properly. Generally, Gibson will put three saddles facing the nut, and three facing the tailpiece. IMHO, this rarely works out and you'll have to reverse one or two, usually the 3rd and 6th string. Last, if the retainer wire is rattling there are a number of fixes, the simplest being to press down on the wire (GENTLY) between any two saddle adjusting screws with a flat bladed screwdriver, removing any slack. If this fails, welcome to the fine art of making a new retainer wire! Pieces of .017 unwound third string work great. As one who has cursed the ABR-1 since the early 60s, chased loose saddles across a stage, crawling around on my hands & knees like I was looking for a lost contact lens, I thought for sure the Nashville would be everyone's bees knees. Whatever, the ABR-1 can be tamed. Oh, and when you've lost your composure fiddling with it, Tone Pros makes a great substitute, the AVRII, which looks like an ABR-1, but incorporates the best of the Nashville. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarfish Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 sok, thank you for the very informative and entertaining post!!! Gotta borrow me a Dremel....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 If the guitar is set-up to your likeing and playing style, AND intonates properly, there is NO PROBLEM. Just play it and enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanC Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 I have a Les Paul R59 which had the same problem. My tech fixed it without really any drama. Even if its playing OK I'd still get it fixed as I thought that mine was getting worse over time. I wouldn't do it myself but maybe that's just me. Good luck! Sorry I haven't got a side on view but below is what the bridge looks like now following the work done to fix it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sok66 Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Nice guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarfish Posted May 4, 2010 Author Share Posted May 4, 2010 I replaced the stock threaded posts with stainless steel ones tonight. The stock ones weren't bent at all, however. The issue is twofold. First, the thumbwheels have a bit of play in them which allows them to tilt. Second, the bridge that sits on the threaded posts also has some play, and it tilts a little more. The SS ones I installed are higher by 1/8", which allows more of the stud to support the bridge. It seems to have helped enough to make me happy. If I decide I'm still bothered, I'll do the 2nd thumbwheel, which will eliminate the tilt down there. Thanks all for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sok66 Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 I replaced the stock threaded posts with stainless steel ones tonight. The stock ones weren't bent at all' date=' however. The issue is twofold. First, the thumbwheels have a bit of play in them which allows them to tilt. Second, the bridge that sits on the threaded posts also has some play, and it tilts a little more. The SS ones I installed are higher by 1/8", which allows more of the stud to support the bridge. It seems to have helped enough to make me happy. If I decide I'm still bothered, I'll do the 2nd thumbwheel, which will eliminate the tilt down there. Thanks all for your help.[/quote'] The stock brass ones will often bend towards the nut under string pressure. The stainless ones won't and will conform more precisely to the angle at which the holes were drilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildperv Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 Gotta borrow me a Dremel....! Sounds like you know what you're doing BUT dremels love to f/u nice nitro finishes. I don't know what it is' date=' but they always bind just when you're not ready or you spray metal filings right ito the finish where you weren't looking. Do not feel my pain... I suggest a good old fashioned hack saw unless you're REALLY skilled with a dremel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarfish Posted May 5, 2010 Author Share Posted May 5, 2010 Sounds like you know what you're doing BUT dremels love to f/u nice nitro finishes. I don't know what it is' date=' but they always bind just when you're not ready or you spray metal filings right ito the finish where you weren't looking. Do not feel my pain... I suggest a good old fashioned hack saw unless you're REALLY skilled with a dremel. OH yeah. I used the Dremel on the new studs out in the garage, before I put them in the guitar. I wouldn't go near my Gibby with a Dremel unless my life depended on it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sok66 Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 YIKES, sorry for my omission: No Dremels near the guitar! Cut off the studs in the vise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarfish Posted May 5, 2010 Author Share Posted May 5, 2010 YIKES' date=' sorry for my omission: No Dremels near the guitar! Cut off the studs in the vise![/quote']What, you don't like relics?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 Guitarfish, So are you happy now? Because, that for sure didn't look right originally. Good luckon it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarfish Posted May 5, 2010 Author Share Posted May 5, 2010 I'm not completely happy, but I'm happier than I was with the stock studs. It's not perfect, but with the stronger stainless steel studs, I'm not worried about it getting any worse. As long as it stays put, it'll be fine. Otherwise I might put in an extra set of the thumbwheels, which will keep the bridge from tilting. The stock design is a bit lacking, but like other things (weak headstock), Gibson stays with tradition because that seems to be what people want. It comes with the territory of owning a Gibson I guess. They are lovely guitars though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sok66 Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 I'm not completely happy' date=' but I'm happier than I was with the stock studs. It's not perfect, but with the stronger stainless steel studs, I'm not worried about it getting any worse. As long as it stays put, it'll be fine. Otherwise I might put in an extra set of the thumbwheels, which will keep the bridge from tilting.[/quote'] FWIW, I had to do this recently to a new '59 RI 335 (along with a fret dressing & new nut ..... so much for the PLEK) and it has worked like a charm. The double thumbwheel mod will only work if the neck angle is enough to have left some space under the adjusting thumbwheels to permit the second set. You can usually get at least the bass side to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarfish Posted May 6, 2010 Author Share Posted May 6, 2010 Another option besides a second thumbwheel is to put a small stainless steel screw on the posts under the existing thumbwheels. It's less noticable than a second thumbwheel but accomplishes the same thing. I'm going to see how it holds up with just the single thumbwheel for now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogrydr Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 So glad I have found this post with lots of good info of fixing this little problem....I too have just purchased a new 335 custom, in Beale st blue. Fell in love with this thing when I first saw and played this visiting the Memphis plant showroom and couldnt wait to get home and find one of my own. To my dismay after finding one, new, getting it home but couldnt bond with it for a few days due to work. I discovered my bridge too was pulled or leaning towards the nut. Having read the post in here I too have replaced mine with stainless post, Lowes hardware fix instead if going to a Calloway or TonePros fix.....makes me sick I gave this much to have to fix it myself. I would have taken it back to dealer for this but didnt really trust them to fix it right or getting another 335, I wanted this one! she spoke to me, you know what im saying....just wanted to say thanks to all in here for sharing this valuable info.....also like you fish, its not 100% but way better than it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 To install longer posts so that they are anchored into the center block you can do the Mapleflame Mod. This will get the backside wings of the guitar to resonate much more. http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/23783-mapleflame-mod-for-es-339/page__p__323382__hl__mapleflame__fromsearch__1#entry323382 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaicho8888 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 BadBluesPlayer: I know about the old ABR-1 bridge and this improvement with ss bolts and double thumb screws. DO you know if the threaded bolt is also short for the Nashville type bridge? If it is short then it will also benefit using a longer bolt installed. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71Darkhorse Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Hey Guitarfish, After scoping your bent bridge posts, i felt that the suggestion of backwards facing saddles pulling the bridge over when tightening the strings sounded like a really good theory. I then checked the saddles on my 335 and R9 and found that they too were 'reversed' on the base strings. Considering the plausible theory mentioned before i was obviously concerned for the welfare of my guitars too! So . . . . . i sent your pictures through to my guitar tech / set up guy and asked for his comment. Now, to qualify this guys opinion, he's no hack. He's toured as guitar tech for major Australian artists and worked on many 'name brand' international artists guitars. He's been doing this work for 30 years now. Anyway, this is what he said - "The saddles on the bridge face backwards so that we can get extra string length to get the intonation in. In 30 years of doing this work i've never seen bridge posts bent from wound bass strings catching on the saddles. The bridge in the picture has had something else happen to it to be in that shape." There you go . . .an opinion from a pro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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