Gibson CJ 165

[fretplay]

I know fellow members own some of these fine guitars so I would be interested if you could tell me how they sound without an amp say played in an acoustic band with other acoustic guitars. I have played one of these guitars but it was in a shop with all the noise that goes on there so I would like to know how owners use them and how the volume projects with other guitars etc.

[ksdaddy]

I have a 2007 Rosewood. I don't think it's loud at all. It's probably only been played 2 hours since I got it so maybe it's still 'new'. Maybe I haven't got the right strings on it. Maybe the TUSQ saddle needs to go away. Maybe all of the above. I just haven't warmed up to it.

[nodehopper]

I have a 2007 Maple and I love the thing.

 

Certainly it will not compete against dreadnoughts, banjers.....It isn't a bluegrass guitar.

 

That being said ...I DID replace the saddle with bone, use Martin SP 80/20 strings and have played it enough to have woke mine up. If you don't play these they do go so sleep. Had Tennroots(Terry) over to the house a few weeks ago and pulled my CJ out for him to try....very disappointing sounding, but it was a cold day and it had been ignored in its case for a few weeks.

 

I kept it out and played it some and a couple weeks later had Tennroots try it again.....WOW ...huge difference.

 

ksdaddy may not have given his CJ a fair shot. It definitely took a few weeks of constant playing after buying it to wake it up.

 

I would love to borrow someones tonerite for this guitar to see of a couple treatments would get it out of the habit of needing constant attention.

 

All in all it is a great guitar....wonderful midrange that makes it perfect for fingerpicking blues and folkie music...and it can be strummed very nicely too.

 

Definitely go play that one again before you buy it.

 

ksdaddy ....give yours a second chance or ship it to me...I will give it a good home!

 

[geelinus]

What nodehopper said: The CJ-165 - at least in maple - is not loud. However, it has wonderful tone - especially fingerpicked.

 

In deference to ksdaddy, my CJ-165 also sounded rather bland ininitally - until I raised the action a bit. String height made more of a tonal difference on this guitar than any other I own.

[ksdaddy]

Yep, I don't have much patience. Fact.

 

I've raised the question in my head how much difference the TUSQ saddle makes vs. bone and the fact it has an under saddle pickup that I can truthfully say will never get used. Swapping the saddle and removing the UST and actually playing it might make a huge difference.

 

[eds111]

ksdaddy,

 

It sure looks nice! I like the natural top w/rosewood...

[nodehopper]

ksdaddy...I agree on the UST ....I don't generally like the sound of any UST plugged in. I am going to replace the Gibson UST pick up system with a K&K. I am hoping this will improve the natural acoustic sound too!

 

Yes ....play the thing and after a couple weeks I think you will notice it opening up. (at least that was my experience.)

 

I sure do like the looks of the natural finish on yours.....although there is nothing like a Gibson Burst either.

[Jinder]

I love these guitars! Great instruments.

 

I'm a sucker for a small boxes, and the 165s manage to be both compact and big sounding, like a scaled-down J185 but with the added compression that comes from a small body.

 

An Emmylou Harris L200 (essentially a 165 decked out to look like a baby SJ200) is most definitely on my GAS list!

[Tennroots]

If I was in the market for a smaller bodied guitar, I'd love to find one of these - in the Gibson Burst tho'.

Nodehopper's (Stephen's) CJ 165 has a sweet tone and great action - but like he said it will go to sleep

if not played. It's like my maple/sitka mandolin, it's gotta get picked on and chop out some chords then

she'll wake up and resonate. I have noticed my L50 is the same way, it is well played in but sounds better

when the ambient temp is above 70F and humidity is around 50%.

[6 string mystix]

I have the Cj-165 in the Sunburst top & Rosewood back/sides and I have grown really attached to mine.

 

When I first got it --it had been shipped and it was in the middle of winter---so my first impression was disappointing.

 

When the guitar acclimated and after an expert set-up it just blew me away and I haven't put it down since.

 

I don't really plug it in nowadays--but if I did I would probably look into an Ultrasound acoustic amp.

 

I have noticed that it takes about 15-20 minutes to warm up every day--but it is nice because I know that by the time I am warmed up---she is too!

 

I think the volume is ok---not bluegrass volume---but that is not what I play anyway.

 

I had also read some of the toneright stuff and I am wondering if this is also an option for me...above all though I just wanted to say that as far as TONE---WHEW---she sounds gorgeous and she is a keeper.

[geelinus]

[onewilyfool]

If I was in the market for a smaller bodied guitar' date=' I'd love to find one of these - in the Gibson Burst tho'.

Nodehopper's (Stephen's) CJ 165 has a sweet tone and great action - but like he said it will go to sleep

if not played. It's like my maple/sitka mandolin, it's gotta get picked on and chop out some chords then

she'll wake up and resonate. I have noticed my L50 is the same way, it is well played in but sounds better

when the ambient temp is above 70F and humidity is around 50%.[/quote']

 

Tenroots....I don't imagine you'd like to sell or trade for that nice little Gibby Archtop of yours?????

 

Just FYI guys, when you remove a UST, you generally need to make a new saddle to allow for the thickness of the UST pickup. Also, you could cut a shim from hardwood and use it under the existing saddle to raise it the height of the UST. I prefer the new saddle route, but I have done the UST-dectomy on two guitars and put in Temporary shims cut from model building wood I got at Michael's artist supply store, as an interim fix, and it sounded sooooo good, I didn't get the new saddle made. FYI

[Tennroots]

OWF,

I think I'm hangin' on to this L50 for awhile, it's in such good condition and plays like butter.

You can play it though when your up here next time, just give me a heads up. We could meet at

Stephen's or most anywhere and jam.

 

Terry

[fretplay]

Thanks for your help guys.

 

Do any of you play acoustic with others using a 165? At present I use a Gibson Cascade but I would like more volume with a small guitar sound.

[Jinder]

Fret, if you're after volume in a small body, try an L00 or Blues King...I bought a Blues King (don't be fooled by the name, it's highly versatile) recently and have been blown away by the volume it kicks out. It's by far the loudest guitar I own, and makes my SJ200 and previous Hummingbirds, Doves, J45s and more seem positively hushed by comparison.

 

I would happily use mine in an acoustic jam/unplugged rehearsal situation, it would hold it own admirably.

 

They look slinky too, and mine plays like butter.

[Rambler]

Jinder's right re the Bk pushing out the sound. Mine (now gone) held its own--well, cut through- in a duo with a guy playing a pair of RW jumbos. But they need to be handled right. Best fingerpicked, single string leads, or slide. Not so much strummed (abrasive).

[Rambler]

KSD, you might try slapping some mediums on the 165, hold your nose and wail away on the thing. Or get a friend over to do the duty. Might help. Curious, is this a light weight box or a little tank? JK

[ksdaddy]

Oh it's light. Light and comfy.

 

I'm not crazy about the little bitty tuner buttons. My stumps have a hard time grabbing them. Minor I know.

 

As a result of this thread I pulled it out last night and sat on the couch and noodled. Strings are from 2007 but no usage. I can say it sounds a lot better in the living room than the workshop where most of the guitars are stored. I don't know what it is about that room but guitars sound like crap there. It's sinking in to my brain now after building it in 1991. It might be okay for a workshop and guitar storage but it sucks to make music in.

 

I'm tempted now to do a USTectomy and make a nice bone saddle. I may do a little dressing on the fret ends too. That's my "Princess and the Pea" thing. Some people can tell the difference in bridge pins, some can tell if the humidity is off, others can tell if the strings are 80/20 or 90/10. My thing is burrs on the fret ends.

 

And jkinnama, I may just try a set of mediums on it. I don't generally make it a point to try varied gauges or brands.... if it works, don't fix it I guess. But one time I put mediums on my '64 SJ and now I wouldn't use anyting else. Conversely I put a set of mediums on the J200 and found it to be a little too stiff. Must be a scale length thing. 13s on the J200 may have made it louder and all that but if it makes it uncomfortable to play then it's counterproductive.

[Jinder]

Scott, do I remember correctly that you won your CJ165 at Homecoming a couple of years back? I have in my memory a picture of you unexpectedly winning it and being presented with it by Ren Ferguson or Bill Gonder, am I on the right track here?

[ksdaddy]

Yep. The drawing was scheduled for 5 PM sharp and you had to be there to win. First name drawn... not there. Second name drawn.... not there. As the third name was being drawn, someone blurted out "This is for the 165" because it wasn't made clear up to that point. My name was then drawn!

 

Bill Gonder handed it over to me and I have that pic on my site. Later that night (or the next night?) Ren was mingling with us and jamming too. At one point I haded him the CJ and he played along with a couple tunes. So I'm sure pretty much everyone at the Homecoming handled it at some point, or at least looked at it.

 

When we all split up at the end, I handed it back to Bill and somehow it got shipped to me. I paid Music Villa to ship it but it came directly from Gibson. No matter, it arrived safely.

 

So you can see it has quite a bit of significance to me personally and I've felt guilty not using it. I guess that's why I've taken a keen interest in this thread and I'm now hoping to give it another chance.

 

Here's Mr. Ferguson with my CJ:

 

[fretplay]

Ah! a Blues King, haven't tried one of those but aren't they the same spec as a 165 and without the bling.

 

I see they are made with Bubinga rather than the 165 Maple. Have any members tried both?

 

Thanks for your help guys.

[geelinus]

Ah! a Blues King' date=' haven't tried one of those but aren't they the same spec as a 165 and without the bling.

 

I see they are made with Bubinga rather than the 165 Maple. Have any members tried both?

 

Thanks for your help guys.[/quote']

 

 

The body shapes are different, most specifically the lower bout. In genral the lower bout is bigger on the CJ-165. In fact, I believe that - depending upon the year - Blues Kings come in two different body depths.

[Rambler]

Ah! a Blues King' date=' haven't tried one of those but aren't they the same spec as a 165 [/quote']

 

FP, the BK is a concert model (14.5 wide) to the 165s grand concert (15"). The smaller top-body ratio on the BK, sepc. the upper bout, helps it push the sound out, especially the shallow body versions. You dont get a lot of presence (surround sound) as a player, but you audience will hear it. As noted, Im not a big fan of these for strumming chords unless you are looking for a deliberately edgey sound.

[fretplay]

Thanks again guys for your advice. I play finger style, very little strumming so perhaps the Blues King is for me.

 

Time for me to do some hunting around!