Body Styles:

[TommyK]

Generally speaking these models are,

 

Jumbo:

 

 

 

Dreadnaught:

 

 

 

Super Jumbo:

 

 

 

What do you call this style?:

[wonderful remark]

000, auditorium(or grand auditorium).

 

I'd say J-45 is an sloped shoulder dreadnaught and J-185 would more likely to be the jumbo.

[bkharmony]

Yeah, it's called a "Southern Jumbo," but it's not really a jumbo. It's a dreadnought.

[onewilyfool]

Mesomorphic

 

Endomorphic

 

Endomorphic

 

Ectomorphic

[SweetMarie]

That is an OM (Orchestra Model)....

[modoc_333]

000' date=' auditorium(or grand auditorium).

 

I'd say J-45 is an sloped shoulder dreadnaught and J-185 would more likely to be the jumbo.[/quote']

 

 

but, for the time, it was a "jumbo" the smaller body guitars were king. the J-185 is actually (i think) called a "small body jumbo" due to the "super jumbo" currently thought of as "jumbo". wow, confusing! LOL. i guess now the J45 and it's siblings are round shoulder dreadnoughts.

 

what a mess! i don't care.... i love these things! and what about the "advanced jumbo"? clearly Gibson was making it up as they go along. maybe that's what i like about these things.... they are what they are.

[onewilyfool]

There was a time.........

 

When the Concert guitar (O size) was the largest guitar made.......ahhhhh, the simplicity of the past.....

[Xylophile]

Yeah, it's called a "Southern Jumbo," but it's not really a jumbo. It's a dreadnought.

 

 

Nope.

 

 

 

X

[bkharmony]

Nope.

 

 

 

X

 

Care to 'splain your "nope," or is this just a seagull post?

[Xylophile]

Sure.

 

Dreadnought (dreadnaught) is a Martin/Ditson invention. WW I era. The original had a long body (21"), sloped shoulders and a 12-fret neck. The later (thirties) version was an inch shorter, with square shoulders and a 14-fret neck. This has become the most popular acoustic steelstring guitar size and shape.

 

Jumbo is a Gibson invention. The first were already seen in the twenties, but the actual "Jumbo" name came a little later. It has slope shoulders (but is noticeably shorter than Martin's 12-fret dreadnought body) and it is (or at least was) a half inch wider than a Martin dreadnought.

 

Both the jumbo and the dreadnought have a wide waist.

J stands for jumbo (advanced-, southern-, -45 etc.).

D stands for dreadnought.

 

Later (late thirties) came an even bigger Gibson flattop that was consequently named the "Super Jumbo". This SJ-200 (and -100) has a relatively narrow waist, though, and an altogether different shape, of course. Apart from SJ-200 you'll also find J-200, without the S.

After that (early fifties) came the J-185. It looks like a scaled down super jumbo. Again, the J stands for jumbo, which doesn't make things easier.

 

Today, many folks who think of a jumbo, either mean the (small) jumbo, J-185 size and shape or the (super) jumbo, J-200 size and shape. Both are narrow waisted models with round butts. That is not wrong per se, but the first or original jumbo shape and size is now called a (slope shoulder) dreadnought by many, including Gibson. It is a (slope shoulder) jumbo, though.

Ironically, (modern) Gibson, on the site, chooses to use a Martin name over their own original name.

And Martin uses a Gibson name (jumbo) for a guitar that is not like any of Gibson's jumbos.

 

BTW, in fact even the Hummingbird isn't a dreadnought, although it looks quite similar. It is somewhat bigger and even more square, though. When Gibson introduced the square shoulders, some fifty years ago, the jumbo name was maintained (e.g. on the Southern Jumbo that went square in 1962).

 

 

 

X

[Rambler]

Grand Auditorium = 16" jumbo: Martin J and M series (0000), Taylor GA and 14 series. J185 too, tho no one calls em that

Grand concert = 15" Martin "000" (ie three sizes larger than a martin style 1), Gibson CJ's, Mizz Emmy; Taylor 12 series

Concert = 14.5" Martin 00, Gibson L-series

[DanvillRob]

You don't say!

 

 

And I thought a dreadnought was an English Battleship and Jumbo was Dumbo's mother!

[Xylophile]

Yes, by "invention" I meant the use of the name for a guitar, of course. Plus the actual model size and shape that came with it.

 

 

X

[DanvillRob]

Yes' date=' by "invention" I meant the use of the name for a guitar, of course. Plus the actual model size and shape that came with it.

 

 

X [/quote']

 

I'm sure Mrs. Jumbo is relieved!

(not to mention Admiral Sir John Fisher!!)

[Xylophile]

BTW, to return to the OP's original question, the Epiphone in the picture is close (though not identical) to Martin's 14-fret auditorium size and shape. In Martin's case that can mean 000 or OM, but that's a whole story in itself.

 

 

X

[Watchdogg]

So my square shouldered dreadnaught Hummingbird Artist that is not all that square shouldered is a jumbo also?

[HellboundGreaser]

I refer to my Advanced Jumbo as a "sloped shoulder dreadnaught" as well as other round shoulderd guitars" When I think of a "Jumbo" I picture the SJ200 for some reason.

[Xylophile]

So my square shouldered dreadnaught Hummingbird Artist that is not all that square shouldered is a jumbo also?

 

Well, let me start with the original Hummingbird shape. Technically that is a square shoulder jumbo. FWIW, in "Gibson's Fabulous Flat-Top Guitars" by Whitford, Vinopal and Erlewine it is called that, too, and I would agree.

That said, especially with the square shoulders, it does look a lot like dreadnought of course. But the dimensions at the extremes are different. Also, the waist is a little wider, even relatively, and the shoulders are even more square than on a typical Martin dreadnought. Overall it is (even) more manly if you will. Ahem.................

 

The Hummingbird Artist sort of is the opposite. It has a more pinched waist, like the Songwriter has. So what to call that? Well, it is a Montana design and as such it doesn't have much of a historic background, yet. You could call it many things, but a dreadnought it is not. It likely isn't a jumbo either, but given Gibson's heritage that would make a little more sense. In any case it's a nice model in its own right.

 

 

 

I refer to my Advanced Jumbo as a "sloped shoulder dreadnaught" as well as other round shoulderd guitars" When I think of a "Jumbo" I picture the SJ200 for some reason.

 

Well, you're not alone, if that is any solace. Also, more and more people see it that way. I have a 2004 Gibson catalog here that still speaks of a "round-shoulder jumbo" for the Southern Jumbo, for instance. But the Dove is already called a "square shoulder flat top" (neither dreadnought or jumbo). And if we look at the current site (plus the one before that) it seems like even Gibson itself has permanently given in to the dreadnought name. And that is copied by dealers and adds, which will only snowball the matter.

 

It can be compared to what happens in a living language. When enough people make the same "mistake", it becomes accepted and then correct. Not historically correct, but that no longer matters then.

 

In the end it's just a name and I guess we all know what Shakespeare wrote about that one.

 

 

 

BTW, apart from names merging, it seems that dimensions get a little closer in some cases, too. That could have a practical side when it comes to guitar cases.

 

 

X

[Deadgrateful]

I've got a "jumbo"

[suburude63]

Sure.

 

Dreadnought (dreadnaught) is a Martin/Ditson invention. WW I era. The original had a long body (21")' date=' sloped shoulders and a 12-fret neck. The later (thirties) version was an inch shorter, with square shoulders and a 14-fret neck. This has become the most popular acoustic steelstring guitar size and shape.

 

Jumbo is a Gibson invention. The first were already seen in the twenties, but the actual "Jumbo" name came a little later. It has slope shoulders (but is noticeably shorter than Martin's 12-fret dreadnought body) and it is (or at least was) a half inch wider than a Martin dreadnought.

 

Both the jumbo and the dreadnought have a wide waist.

J stands for jumbo (advanced-, southern-, -45 etc.).

D stands for dreadnought.

 

Later (late thirties) came an even bigger Gibson flattop that was consequently named the "Super Jumbo". This SJ-200 (and -100) has a relatively narrow waist, though, and an altogether different shape, of course. Apart from SJ-200 you'll also find J-200, without the S.

After that (early fifties) came the J-185. It looks like a scaled down super jumbo. Again, the J stands for jumbo, which doesn't make things easier.

 

Today, many folks who think of a jumbo, either mean the (small) jumbo, J-185 size and shape or the (super) jumbo, J-200 size and shape. Both are narrow waisted models with round butts. That is not wrong per se, but the first or original jumbo shape and size is now called a (slope shoulder) dreadnought by many, including Gibson. It is a (slope shoulder) jumbo, though.

Ironically, (modern) Gibson, on the site, chooses to use a Martin name over their own original name.

And Martin uses a Gibson name (jumbo) for a guitar that is not like any of Gibson's jumbos.

 

BTW, in fact even the Hummingbird isn't a dreadnought, although it looks quite similar. It is somewhat bigger and even more square, though. When Gibson introduced the square shoulders, some fifty years ago, the jumbo name was maintained (e.g. on the Southern Jumbo that went square in 1962).

 

 

 

X[/quote']

 

 

Right On !