A Dead Sea

[Californiaman]

I heard that if they don't get stop the oil and methane pouring into the gulf soon it may become a dead sea.

What's going Jocko?

Whatcha' hearin' man?

[ChanMan]

Didn't they just state that they've re-capped it with a tighter fitting cap?

 

Did that fail?

[Riverside]

[TommyK]

... I know its important for tourist to be able to walk along a clean white beach well thats been damaged and again it does not have near the environmental impact as the wetlands. The wetland are the nursery of ....

 

Like the Eddie Cochran song, Summertime Blues "I'd like to help you son but you're too young to vote."

 

i.e. Crabs and fish don't vote. Tourists do.

[milod]

Jocko...

 

There are expectations of certain types of "politics" in "news conferences" held by both pols and bureaucrats in biz and government. That's what they train for.

 

What they don't train for is the sorta question that only local knowledge can ask that is "outside the box."

 

Too few have any real PR training or concepts, so they rapidly find themselves in trouble that's way over their head.

 

When that sorta thing happens, if they're bright enough, they've gotta find an excuse of some sort to fold before they say something they'll regret.

 

I'd expand on this but... maybe backchannel.

 

m

[heymisterk]

Great info, Jocko.

 

I was listening to a couple of scientists on NPR and they said it will be YEARS before we know the full impact of the spill. They said we are only seeing the tip of the proverbial iceberg: the oil that is on the surface and washing the shore. The great unknown is how tragic this is going to be for the ecosystem beneath the surface...

 

I don't want to get all political, but if this tragedy isn't an argument for energy efficiency and a move toward greener forms of energy, I give up.

[heymisterk]

It is amazing to me how much people waste fuel. For example, I am a middle school teacher in a relatively well-to-do district. One of my jobs this year was to monitor the area where buses and and parents drop the kids off in the morning.

 

It's so dumb: lines of cars - many of them gas-guzzling SUVs - idling up as moms in workout clothes drop off their kids. They do this in spite of the fact that every student has a bus they can ride for free. I want to scream sometimes...

[Tman5293]

 

I found this to be hilarious.

[stevef]

Fox news reporting as of 15:00 EDST -NO OIL FLOWING from the newly capped pipe!..!

BP's cameras show no oil coming out of the cap. They're still running pressure testing on the new cap (48 hours till testing is done).

[stevef]

Hopefully it holds and they can pump the oil to ships (I think that's the plan).

The rest of the UGLY are the consequences of the oil out there and the cleanup.

[milod]

I think there may be some regional differences of opinion on "wasting fuel."

 

To me a small "fuel efficient" car is about as safe as a motorcycle between October and April when the winds and snow blow nastily and the temps drop and it's 30-70 miles or more between anything, let alone gas stations.

 

I know folks who have lost fingers and toes inside city limits of my state's largest city thanks to a storm - and that's in an old style "full size car" and pickups and SUVs were still keeping people alive even if not getting them around.

 

I'll admit I might prefer a different sorta vehicle were I living a different life in a different part of the country or world, but the bottom line is that it's not evil to drive a SUV.

 

And... I'll admit I don't understand mommies in workout clothes picking up kids at school. I don't think I know a mommie in good health who does not work outside the home, but then the local school has estimated something like 50 percent of the students are eligible for free and reduced-price meals.

 

m

[Rewddawg1]

Fox news reporting as of 15:00 EDST -NO OIL FLOWING from the newly capped pipe!..!

BP's cameras show no oil coming out of the cap. They're still running pressure testing on the new cap (48 hours till testing is done).

Wow! Fox and News used in the same breath. That's an Oxymoron if I have ever heard one. In fact getting real news is a joke. I find PBS to have the most accurate reporting and they are slim on all the important issues effecting the world. IMHO

[heymisterk]

I think there may be some regional differences of opinion on "wasting fuel."

 

To me a small "fuel efficient" car is about as safe as a motorcycle between October and April when the winds and snow blow nastily and the temps drop and it's 30-70 miles or more between anything' date=' let alone gas stations.

 

I know folks who have lost fingers and toes inside city limits of my state's largest city thanks to a storm - and that's in an old style "full size car" and pickups and SUVs were still keeping people alive even if not getting them around.

 

I'll admit I might prefer a different sorta vehicle were I living a different life in a different part of the country or world, but the bottom line is that it's not evil to drive a SUV.

 

And... I'll admit I don't understand mommies in workout clothes picking up kids at school. I don't think I know a mommie in good health who does not work outside the home, but then the local school has estimated something like 50 percent of the students are eligible for free and reduced-price meals.

 

m

[/quote']

 

According to statistics I just read from Weather.com and a website called "Facts and Tidbits About Belle Fourche, SD".

 

Cleveland: Average January Temperature - 25

BF: Average January Temperature - 29

 

Cleveland: Average Winter Snowfall - 65(!) inches

BF: Average Winter Snowfall - 16 inches

...yet my little Toyota does just fine. Do I wish I had 4X4 capabilities for that Lake Effect Snow we get? Sure. Do I feel it's necessary to own an SUV? Only slightly more than I feel it's necessary to give BP a blank check.

 

Why are people more likely to lose various appendages in a car instead of an SUV? Do people sit in the back and build a fire if they have an SUV? I lived in rural Idaho for four years and what I discovered was that driving a truck of any sort was more about image and lifestyle than anything else. Now obviously if your job makes it necessary for you to own an SUV, I get it. But I don't buy the excuse of cold weather and lack of gas stations for owning an SUV any more than I buy mothers wanting their kids to get an extra half hour of sleep and thus, be driven to school. If you live in an area where gas stations are really rare, wouldn't common sense dictate making sure you had enough gas to travel safely, and then some? Wouldn't you carry emergency supplies?

 

I ain't buyin' it, my good Sir...

[milod]

Jocko...

 

You nailed it.

 

Of course on this side of the Dakotas it's actually not quite as uncomfortable since it's usually a big lower humidity. It's just a lot more sparse.

 

I love the gulf coast in sprall - I don't consider there's a winter there at all, so spring and fall are "one." But summer? Sheesh, I can't be comfortable with that humidity. It's also pretty crowded down there.

 

m

[milod]

Yeah, I have a winter kit.

 

The problem with small vehicles when you have to spend a cupla days in them is that there's not much room to wiggle, and when you can't wiggle, there's a tendency to freeze appendages.

 

Frankly I don't like most of today's vehicles regardless of size because of center consoles, but... I could get by for a cupla days fairly comfortably in my Jeep in circumstances that likely would result in lost appendages in a smaller vehicle. I'll admit I'd much prefer my old-style Grand Wagoneer to the current Jeep, but...

 

We don't get the inches of snow you get in Cleveland - but what we get tends to come in horizontal. It kills livestock and it kills people. It's a totally different environment than in a city. In fact, it's more like the sea in a lotta ways if you're in trouble.

 

To be best equipped is to have a vehicle in which you can pretty well set up housekeeping for a cupla days. I once helped move a guy who'd frozen solid 'cuz he couldn't; and I know far too much about guys damaging themselves trying to rescue idiots in little cars stuck in snowdrifts after ignoring storm warnings and then in a panic calling for help on cell phones.

 

m

[vincentw]

I was raised on the beaches of Pensacola. In my early 20s I made a living playing music in Destin and other amazing coastal cities. Now in nashville and every summer made the trek down to the coast like some kind of turtle and now all of it is question. It's just a crying shame.

[milod]

I remember Biloxi in the 50s and the 80s.

 

Yup, it's worse than a shame.

 

m

[Rewddawg1]

This oil spil is a total sin to mankind. If I went fishing with dynamite do you think state officials would be upset. This spill was preventable but in the name of saving the almighty dollar steps were skipped and thus here we are. The same thing happens in the mining industry and places you can't imagine. I don't know the ralation of government and big buisiness but this happens no matter which party is in power. We the public are on a need to know basis as far as the truth and we apparentlly don't need to know. My only hope is that there truly is a hell and there is a special place there for all those responsible for these atrocities.

Rewd.

[Californiaman]

Tonight, Fox News is reporting that the "fix" came from an unknown and anonymous plumber who designed the valve, contacted a university professor, who contacted BP, who under the direction of the plumber, fixed the leak.

[Murph]

I hope it was "Joe"....

 

B)

[Californiaman]

No report on whether or not is was Joe.

[stevef]

Wow! Fox and News used in the same breath. That's an Oxymoron if I have ever heard one. In fact getting real news is a joke. I find PBS to have the most accurate reporting and they are slim on all the important issues effecting the world. IMHO

 

I was looking at Yahoo news (local' date=' which in my neck of the woods is CBS/ABC/AP/NYTIMES/NYPOST/NYDAILYNEWS) FOX-NY was the first to post it (I think they said their original source was the Wall Street Journal..

I can't watch PBS for news. They keep interrupting important news for fund raising efforts[biggrin']. The last time I watched PBS for news was the first war in Iraq. They interrupted their coverage for fund raising events, and by the time the fund raising was done the war was over[biggrin].

 

I get BBC and a couple of other fair news broadcasts on WNYC (New York City's TV).

[TommyK]

Inches of snow fall can be deceiving. The most snow I ever had to shovel in central Illinois was an official 2" snow fall. 1977, I think. Trouble is it came with 50mph winds for 3 days. Everywhere you looked... out in the plowed fields was ... dirt. All the snow was stopped and dropped on the farm stead. We had to shovel down 3 feet to get into the top door of the livestock buildings. These are split barn doors. Top door at about 7'6" with a split about half way down. We shoveled from sun-up until 2 that afternoon to do chores that usually took an hour and a half. We were whipped! We walked on top the snow banks to get to the livestock, hand carried all the feed for 2 days before we could get a tractor dug out.

 

Between us and town was clear US highway except... two big drifts. One snow drift formed by an unused corn crib 300 feet from the highway The drift started at about the roof edge of the crib, about 30 feet high and tapered off across the highway. Down the center line of the highway, the bank was every bit of 20' high and 100 foot through. We didn't get to town for a week. The second drift was south of the small town where we bought most of our goods. The drift was formed on the lee side of a 1/8 mile of osage orange hedge. The state had, at the time two snow blowers. There was that much work for them it took a week to get to us. Plows they had, but we almost never get this size of drifts and the snow plows weren't up to the task.

 

When they finally broke through the last bank the towns people were close to dire straights. The 2 grocery stores were bare. The only thing that bought them time was the town had a bakery that baked bread for the Wonder corp and they had a dairy that made cheese. Between the milk, cheese and bread they were able to make with their inventory of flower, the towns folk didn't starve, but they weren't too many days from real trouble. You see the town folk don't do much canning and storing up of food in their homes. When we heard the road to town was open, my mom went to the store to get a jug of milk. She came home empty handed. She saw the near empty store shelves and figured, she'd let the towns folk have what little was left. We had plenty. It was a red letter day for the community when the grocery semi's came to town to re-stock. We could have lasted 'til spring.

 

Yup. The most snow I ever shoveled was 2".

[milod]

I'm not going to be happy about the shutdown, nor entirely "pleased" when the oil is out of the water and off the beaches and wetlands.

 

I happen to favor offshore drilling for oil, but it's like almost everything else, you can't do much of anything in this world without consequences for your neighbors. Those who act with disregard of their neighbors rightfully have to pay the consequences regardless, whether it's in their back yard or...

 

When the water and shorlines are back to normal - notice I didn't say "clean" - and people are covered for their losses I'll feel better about the thing.

 

m

[milod]

Yeah... Obviously I wasn't all that old in the 50s, but we were there on my 12th birthday - old enough to remember quite a bit of stuff down there.

 

The plastic tourism environment today doesn't compare to the "hey, welcome to our small town" atmosphere I remember from when I was a kid. But it's not just there, it's everywhere. The world was just rebuilding in the 50s and "we," the average Americans, were just starting to enjoy having a few bucks in our pockets. But then, I guess our presence in growing numbers kinda forced the change, too.

 

Pardon my dosage of nostalgia for an America with half the population of today and two-lane pre-Interstate highways that led you to small town cafes and owner-operated gas stations and motels, and...

 

m