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Inquiry--Epiphone vs. Gibson...price/performance/playability...why the gap?

primeguy31

By primeguy31
in Epiphone Electrics

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PJ

PJ

Posted
Posted

Those offshore PRS SE's, the P-90 and Humbucker versions are made very well. No sharp fret ends, nicely finished, nic rosewood boards. When I look in the music store in the $400-600 range,

their offshore stuff seems to be the benchmark for quality. Never heard one, so I'm not sure

how the electronics are, and I'm generally not a big fan of PRS guitars, but hanging on the wall,

and under your fingers, they feel very, very good. Interesting too, to this forum....they didn't change the head-shape.

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Lerxst1281733995

Lerxst1281733995

Posted
Posted
Those offshore PRS SE's' date=' the P-90 and Humbucker versions are made very well. No sharp fret ends, nicely finished, nic rosewood boards. When I look in the music store in the $400-600 range,

their offshore stuff seems to be the benchmark for quality. Never heard one, so I'm not sure

how the electronics are, and I'm generally not a big fan of PRS guitars, but hanging on the wall,

and under your fingers, they feel very, very good. Interesting too, to this forum....they didn't change the head-shape.[/quote']

 

From my understanding, when they set up manufacturing in Korea, they didn't just contract a factory to make guitars that look like PRS guitars.. They actually went over there and set up their own operations.. Trained them to build guitars exactly the way they do in Maryland and hold them very high quality standards... And they make the Korean manufacturers "proudly" put their name on the back of the headstock..

 

They probably cut corners in wood and cosmetics, and I'm not sure if they use PRS made pickups, but they're pretty stringent about build quality..

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evol04gt

evol04gt

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Posted

gibson vs epi

 

i think the point most are missing is to factor how much more payroll goes into just manufacturing each gibson... how many epis are made per how many gibson made.... factor the cost difference of hardware(dont even bother with true cost..use market prices) ive owned an epi les paul (and really want to pic up another) and i have owned my gibson for over 10 years... and the thing has had TWO headstock repairs, 2 set ups and has a number is small playing blemishes.it was never babied, but i have never touched an epi thats played like this thing,.. quite honestly, les pauls of all kinds do not stay in tune well at all... there was a time that i would have sold my les for a PRS in a heartbeat.

the way i really feel about it--- a gibson costs a lot more money and time to make.so profit margin is higher per unit.. but if you really look at it, 10 gibsons can be made in the time it takes to make 20-30 epis and profit over costs prob lines up dead even that way... gibson has STUPID low action and plays like butter and will always increase in value (yes even with a certified headstock repair) much more than an epi will... this is not a trash to epis.. i am a lot more willing to shell out 500 for an epi plus 400 in a fret dressing ,gibson electronic and tuners than i am to shell out 2000 for a gibson les paul- i know the epi is a lesser wood..but if it resonates the same to me, and i dont SEE the difference-- i dont care 1000 dollars in purchase price.

 

fender usa vs fender mexico vs squire

 

squire has a good line of guitars that a select number of people want (the toranado, jagmaster etc which are badazz.. but they also have a slew of the 200 dollar TURDS.

i have mexican fenders and USA--- let me tell you-- the mexi is crap in comparison.. mostly feel, frets and action..tone of course... are USA fenders overpriced?? not really my USA guitars are insane reliable, tone is great... and they have always played like dreams.... 800-1000 is USA Lefty 350-450 is a mexi lefty.. that 500 was worth everycent.

 

 

 

 

TO TRULY compare the quality of these guitars and standards you gotta really play the guitars and get to know their soul...when i play my tele after playing my les, i hate it... till i warm up to it... then i pick up my gibby and i hate the fenders again.... every type of guitar has a different style of playing that it brings out in the specifi player.

 

 

 

 

 

i can make my mexi strats sound the same as my usas and so on but the usa will ALWAYS feel better...

same thing with epis and gibsons....

 

 

i dont like some of you guys comparing usa fenders and gibsons... just totally unfair.....good guitars are like your kids,,, you love them equally but are equally different..

 

 

i effing love guitars.but im not rich,.. i want as many different styles as i can get my hands on and the best i can get my hands on... i like such a large array of styles that i choose to buy epiphones because i could get 2 maybe three epis for the cost of a gibson i want and have them set up, dressed and put in new tuners and pickups myself... i will say my gibson frets SMOKE my epi frets...i truly think gibsons are over priced a bit, but i also want one of each...

 

with epiphone i can eventually have all the styles i want.. if one breaks, i can replace it. with gibson, its a PERFECT guitar out of box.

 

 

 

i have taken a lot of time to look at the cool custom models ( the 3 pick up sg and the supreme pauls etc) i have always wanted one, but i could never rationally shell out 3-4 grand for a gibson. ill buy my gibsons used from now on if i know i can get one around 1000.

 

 

gibson are worth their price over an epiphone. try to sell an epi for about what you paid for it in 5 years.. good luck.. so of its in our heads.... ill take an epi custom over a gibby studio ANY DAY.

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evol04gt

evol04gt

Posted
Posted

gibson vs epi

 

i think the point most are missing is to factor how much more payroll goes into just manufacturing each gibson... how many epis are made per how many gibson made.... factor the cost difference of hardware(dont even bother with true cost..use market prices) ive owned an epi les paul (and really want to pic up another) and i have owned my gibson for over 10 years... and the thing has had TWO headstock repairs, 2 set ups and has a number is small playing blemishes.it was never babied, but i have never touched an epi thats played like this thing,.. quite honestly, les pauls of all kinds do not stay in tune well at all... there was a time that i would have sold my les for a PRS in a heartbeat.

the way i really feel about it--- a gibson costs a lot more money and time to make.so profit margin is higher per unit.. but if you really look at it, 10 gibsons can be made in the time it takes to make 20-30 epis and profit over costs prob lines up dead even that way... gibson has STUPID low action and plays like butter and will always increase in value (yes even with a certified headstock repair) much more than an epi will... this is not a trash to epis.. i am a lot more willing to shell out 500 for an epi plus 400 in a fret dressing ,gibson electronic and tuners than i am to shell out 2000 for a gibson les paul- i know the epi is a lesser wood..but if it resonates the same to me, and i dont SEE the difference-- i dont care 1000 dollars in purchase price.

 

fender usa vs fender mexico vs squire

 

squire has a good line of guitars that a select number of people want (the toranado, jagmaster etc which are badazz.. but they also have a slew of the 200 dollar TURDS.

i have mexican fenders and USA--- let me tell you-- the mexi is crap in comparison.. mostly feel, frets and action..tone of course... are USA fenders overpriced?? not really my USA guitars are insane reliable, tone is great... and they have always played like dreams.... 800-1000 is USA Lefty 350-450 is a mexi lefty.. that 500 was worth everycent.

 

 

 

 

TO TRULY compare the quality of these guitars and standards you gotta really play the guitars and get to know their soul...when i play my tele after playing my les, i hate it... till i warm up to it... then i pick up my gibby and i hate the fenders again.... every type of guitar has a different style of playing that it brings out in the specifi player.

 

 

 

 

 

i can make my mexi strats sound the same as my usas and so on but the usa will ALWAYS feel better...

same thing with epis and gibsons....

 

 

i dont like some of you guys comparing usa fenders and gibsons... just totally unfair.....good guitars are like your kids,,, you love them equally but are equally different..

 

 

i effing love guitars.but im not rich,.. i want as many different styles as i can get my hands on and the best i can get my hands on... i like such a large array of styles that i choose to buy epiphones because i could get 2 maybe three epis for the cost of a gibson i want and have them set up, dressed and put in new tuners and pickups myself... i will say my gibson frets SMOKE my epi frets...i truly think gibsons are over priced a bit, but i also want one of each...

 

with epiphone i can eventually have all the styles i want.. if one breaks, i can replace it. with gibson, its a PERFECT guitar out of box.

 

 

 

i have taken a lot of time to look at the cool custom models ( the 3 pick up sg and the supreme pauls etc) i have always wanted one, but i could never rationally shell out 3-4 grand for a gibson. ill buy my gibsons used from now on if i know i can get one around 1000.

 

 

gibson are worth their price over an epiphone. try to sell an epi for about what you paid for it in 5 years.. good luck.. so of its in our heads.... ill take an epi custom over a gibby studio ANY DAY.

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evol04gt

evol04gt

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Posted

sorry for the double post....

 

i support both sides of the arguments... i didnt mean to sound so paradoxal....

 

 

i dont like the bolt neck vs set neck rants....on gibby vs fender either..

 

bolt neck is a lot more sturdy etc.. a set neck just looks a lot more pristine... i am afraid to really WAIL on my set neck guitars.... would i buy a gibby or epi with a bolt on? no way(wish the epi jr had a set neck cause i want one to modifiy the crap out of... would i buy a fender with a set neck? prob not (even though they have had a few nice custom shops...

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Lerxst1281733995

Lerxst1281733995

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i have mexican fenders and USA--- let me tell you-- the mexi is crap in comparison.. mostly feel' date=' frets and action..tone of course... are USA fenders overpriced?? not really my USA guitars are insane reliable, tone is great... and they have always played like dreams.... 800-1000 is USA Lefty 350-450 is a mexi lefty.. that 500 was worth everycent.

 

[/quote']

 

I would have to disagree with you on that point... To a degree... I have a MIM Jazz bass as well as a MIA Jazz bass and I prefer the Mexi... Of course I upgraded everything on the MIM, but it just feels and plays better than its American counterpart.. I will offer one caveat, though... The quality of Fender's Mexican guitars has been known to go up and down over the years.. there are times when they've been worse than Squires, and times when they've rivaled the American made instruments.. I don't know what the reasons are for it, just that it does happen..

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evol04gt

evol04gt

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i was reffering to my mexis.... sorry...

 

 

my main issue is the crappy saddles than fender just started putting back on the usa's and the smaller frets, action and lack of neck tilt thing...mex standard pick ups are crap... havent played the baja or texas speciasl though

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Lerxst1281733995

Lerxst1281733995

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i was reffering to my mexis.... sorry...

 

 

my main issue is the crappy saddles than fender just started putting back on the usa's and the smaller frets' date=' action and lack of neck tilt thing...mex standard pick ups are crap... havent played the baja or texas speciasl though[/quote']

 

The pickups have always been crap... Like Epiphones, the first thing you want to do is upgrade the pups!

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PJ

PJ

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It's obvious that Gibsons have become "boutique" guitars, purchased by collectors and rock stars, some mainstream musicians, but probably not too many. Which is why Epiphone has added the Elitist range - Gisbons designs, using Gibson electronics, but produced at lower cost levels, to be

marketed at more of a mainstream price-point. When I was coming-up as a musician, an SG and

a Strat were about the same price - maybe $275-325. Where, I think Fender has a competitive edge, is they're able to offer guitars made in Mexico in the $600-700 range, pretty close to what they were offering for $300 in the late '60s. But, Gibson's models are $1500-$2000. Maybe Gibson could take a lesson here, and produce Gibsons to those type of cost/price targets. Or, maybe the Elitists get them the market they were after. I'm not sure how successful the Elitist line is for Gibson, but it sure brought some great guitars to the market that were previously unavailable

in the $1000 price range.

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Dave

Dave

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Set necks are probably better contructed than bolt-on necks, but think of it this way, you can replace a bolt-on neck with a click and a credit card. Granted, you will have to mill it, shim it, or adjust it to fit, but it can be done without a lot of sweat.

 

The overall cost of American manufacturing is a factor in the end cost of the product, but I'd feel a lot better about my Gibson if I got a lot more in terms of playability and features. If I want to buy a truck, I can get a good serviceable truck for $19,000. The one they have on the showroom floor for $34,000 has a long list of bells and whistles like leather seats, climate controlled heat and air, upgrade computerized add-ons such as GPS, Bluetooth, hands free cell phone, etc. If I paid $80,000 for a truck, I'd expect it to drive itself.

 

A $399 Epi LP Standard is a good serviceable guitar that might require a couple of hundred dollars worth of parts and more labor if you can't do it yourself, but the end result is almost as good as a Gibson. Why? Because you bought the parts at a lower cost online and provided the labor for free. And, the rest is NAME and STATUS SYMBOL. There's a premium attached to name brand status that can't be purchased aftermarket.

 

Yesterday at church we were rehearsing before our contemporary service. There's always a guitar player in the audience who comes up and talks to us. One of the friends of the other guitar player came up and stood and talked and suddenly said, "Epiphone! I thought that was a real Les Paul." I laughed and said, "It is. It says so right here on the truss rod cover...Les Paul Custom." He said, "Well, it looks just like one and it sounds amazing! Fooled me." Nuff said.

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evol04gt

evol04gt

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dave- i agree with most of what you said...however.... as far as the bolt neck and set net go-- my luthier was going to charge me 600-700 to put the slimmer neck on my gibson when the headstock broke (gibson wanted 800 to do a standard repair that probably would have been shipped to a shop like his and he would have done the work, collected 200 bucks and gibby keeps 600) i decided to just have the headstock fixed for 200 or 250 cant remember... if i break my fender neck, to have the same one made and shimmed would cost me 450-550 or 300 for a usa neck with no damage thats used plus shimming costs (about 100)... pretty similar cost for something a lot less likely to break... but i also have never seen a set mech rip out of the body either....

 

 

im gonna take up a collection for a lefty elitist from you guys and ill solve the debate... ha ha

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JEPI

JEPI

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I don't have an Epi with a bolt on neck, but when I had my Strat made, I asked the guitar maker to cock the neck just a tad, very slight . Being that I didn't play the 5th & 6th string that much above the 14th fret, this enabled me to "grab" the others more easily. Works for me and doesn't effect intonation or any other issues. Here's a picture of the "slight tad" Has anyone done this to an Epi bolt on?........J

 

StratNeckAgain002.jpg

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stan 58

stan 58

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Posted

Hey PJ, my allender has a+very nice neck, wide thin and it plays fast . The finish next to my Epis is a little cloudy but all in all not bad. The PUs are hot but not mushie and the whammy bar works well. Im very happy with this little axe. Stan.

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Lerxst1281733995

Lerxst1281733995

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dave- i agree with most of what you said...however.... as far as the bolt neck and set net go-- my luthier was going to charge me 600-700 to put the slimmer neck on my gibson when the headstock broke (gibson wanted 800 to do a standard repair that probably would have been shipped to a shop like his and he would have done the work' date=' collected 200 bucks and gibby keeps 600) i decided to just have the headstock fixed for 200 or 250 cant remember... if i break my fender neck, to have the same one made and shimmed would cost me 450-550 or 300 for a usa neck with no damage thats used plus shimming costs (about 100)... pretty similar cost for something a lot less likely to break... but i also have never seen a set mech rip out of the body either....

 

 

im gonna take up a collection for a lefty elitist from you guys and ill solve the debate... ha ha[/quote']

 

I've used Mighty Mite necks a couple of times... Costs about a hundred bucks... Some light fret work may be required.. Or you may have to shave the heel down a little for fit, but since I do all the work myself.... It still costs me about a hundred bucks...

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PJ

PJ

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Posted

JCWillow....that sure is a nice box in your avatar. Now, so I can focus on taking on one of these as a project....is that GFS pickup a P-90 or (stacked) P-100? Seems I'd want a bucker for slide-work,

no? The tuners, I think I'd go with the white-plastic buttons or snot-green vintage type, as you've used. Is yours a bolt-on or set-neck? Just curious.

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