Elitist SG from China?

[PJ]

Why not send the Elitist SG drawings to the China factory? Presumably could be built at a more favorable price-point than the Eilitist/Japan model which was too close to the Gibson model. I'd sure love to see that model from China!

[tulsaslim]

To me, one of the things that make the elitists so desirable is the top-notch Japanese workmanship.

[TheX]

Country of origin has nothing to do with the ability of individual builders.

[tulsaslim]

not according to the hard-core Gibsonheads. Some of those guys will contend that if your guitar isn't 'made in USA' it's a piece of junk.

 

Whereas you're right about individual luthiers, unfortunately these days guitars aren't made by one person.

[charlie brown]

Well, the "Hardcore Gibsonheads," have to have some justification of paying those rediculous prices! LOL!

I'm all for "buying American," and supporting our workers and companies. But, if you're in a economic situation (personally),

that won't allow that, are you supposed to not buy a guitar (or whatever), just because you can't afford the "American"

product. No Way! Also, "Foreign built" products, are hardly "junk!" "Elitist," and even the Quig Dao built Chinese goods

are good/great enough to warrent the "Gibsonheads" wrath. If they were really "Junk," there'd be no need, to even

bring it up.

[PJ]

I think the China quality would be good enough for an SG in my collection. What I see coming from China looks excellent, quality-wise. Certainly the case with the Dots and Casinos.

[arobatto]

One has to look at Eastman Guitars to see that there can be fine craftmanship from China. They make sought after acoustics and especialy archtop guitars. http://www.eastmanguitars.com/

 

 

Alex

[PJ]

You know, I played my first Joe Pass the other week and I think it was made in Indonesia. That thing played great, ever for a box hanging around GC. Wouldn't have mattered where it was made, I doubt if it were made in the US it'd be any better. The newer Dots, coming China, look fantastic, compared to what we had a few years ago. Oh...I know, guys try to up-sell their Korean boxes as somehow being better. My guess, is that a captive factory, owned by Gibson in China, will produce better product than when it was jobbed-out to the volume builders (allover) Asia.

[RotcanX]

Why not send the Elitist SG drawings to the China factory? Presumably could be built at a more favorable price-point than the Eilitist/Japan model which was too close to the Gibson model. I'd sure love to see that model from China!

 

That's a really good question. It's kind of ironic that Epiphone has produced two early sixties SG "replicas" (the "1962" G-400 and the Elitist '61 reissue) and yet the two are so different. Part of this is just materials and workmanship; the Elitists are made out of real mahogany, with better quality rosewood for the fingerboards, better quality hardware and pickups, and a much better finish... all things that will bump up the cost regardless of the country of manufacture; then there is the issue of "design discrepancies" on the G-400.

 

Now some of the discrepancies of the G-400 (we'll assume that the Elitist is the accurate one) can be easily rectified by providing accurate plans... for example they might start by placing the controls and jack in the correct locations, and they could switch to an accurately-shaped cover plate... and they could actually save material costs by making the things the correct thickness (G-400s are 1/8" thicker than real SGs, probably to accommodate the straight toggle switch) but some of the other areas start to involve higher costs. For example, the bevels are probably the way they are because it's cheaper to do them that way; a quickly-machined approximation is easier than a true 100% accurate shaping which probably requires either multiple setups or (horror) hand work. Some areas have been overlooked entirely; the bevel on the back of the body by the heel is missing altogether. Again, it's a question of $$$ I think. Same with the neck binding.. there's no mystery here, it's just a budget call.

 

Now, some of us, myself included, would have no problem with a G-400 that was correctly shaped and had neck binding and sold for, say, $450. However the majority of people buying G-400s really don't know or care that it is so inaccurate; all they care about is the $309 price tag. One also wonders if Gibson is deliberately keeping them "ugly" so as not to affect sales of "real" SGs. Epiphone is not going to waste time making a better G-400 only to watch the sales go down. So don't hold your breath for any wild improvements to the G-400 any time soon. At least the EE models finally have the knobs almost in the right position.

 

All figures in Canadian dollars.

[matiac]

Well' date=' the "Hardcore Gibsonheads," have to have some justification of paying those rediculous prices! LOL!

I'm all for "buying American," and supporting our workers and companies. But, if you're in a economic situation (personally),

that won't allow that, are you supposed to not buy a guitar (or whatever), just because you can't afford the "American"

product. No Way! Also, "Foreign built" products, are hardly "junk!" "Elitist," and even the Quig Dao built Chinese goods

are good/great enough to warrent the "Gibsonheads" wrath. If they were really "Junk," there'd be no need, to even

bring it up.[/quote']

 

Well, personally I think Epiphone makes a pretty damn good guitar, I have a regular production Korean Les Paul (Classic), and it's every bit the guitar my Gibson is, and for someone to look down their nose at someone because they don't own a Gibson has issues anyway.

And while yes, the Epiphone is modified, they were things I did because I could, not because I had to...with the exception of the pickup selector, other than that, it was a great guitar stock. Awesome workmanship, and I've seen the same in the Chinese guitars, although the pickups leave a lot to be desired, at least with me.

As for Asian guitars being "junk", at one time, they were, but they've gotten exponentially better over even the last 20 years, I just think the Gibson naysayers just can't let go of the past, but then, there's that "issue" thing again.

Furthermore, and in conclusion, you get what you can afford, and naysayers be damned, I'm STILL psyched over my Epiphone...4 years later, I still put it on a stand, and just look at it saying, "mine, all mine!", same as my Gibson. Have a good day today, and a better day tomorrow.

[Stewie]

I don't know about the SG but I have a Japanese made Elitist LP Custom that I picked up at MF for 799. It is an absolutely amazing guitar. I have owned a Chinese Les Paul and it was also a very nice guitar. The only thing that would separate them was the US pickups and hardware.

Now I recently purchased two of the new Squier deluxe Strats made in Indonesia and they are absolutley amazing. For 249 US. Are you kidding these things are CIJ, MIM quality or better. So I agree with the previous posters who said that the Chinese/Indonesian workmanship is fast approaching Japanese quality.

[RotcanX]

The only thing that would separate them was the US pickups and hardware. Now I recently purchased two of the new Squier deluxe Strats made in Indonesia...

 

Wow, if you think Chinese LPs are that close to an Elitist, I would say you need to go see an eye doctor. Since I got my Elitist I can barely stand to touch a Chinese LP... they are really off. Trust me, the differences are far more involved than just hardware.

 

Also, aren't the new Squier deluxes being made in India? My experience was that Indonesia was the worst place to get a Squier from; at least the Chinese ones were halfway decent but of course the really good ones came from Japan. I haven't had the opportunity to actually try one of the Indian-made ones but that sonic blue model really caught my eye.

[colimodio]

Hey Tulsaslim:

 

Is that a 335 Elitist Dot?

I'm thinking about getting one myself. Please tell me: is it kerfed inside?

Thanks

[tulsaslim]

I can't tell whether it's kerfed inside or not since I'm at work & the guitar is at home. I will tell you that it's one of the finest guitars I've ever owned (actually, I've got 2 of them). It's worth every dime they're asking. Of the 30 or so electric guitars I own, I'd have to say this one is my favorite.

 

I gotta say that I've compared them to the Gibson 335 many times & there's not a perceptible lick of difference between them. The elitist is extremely well-built. Quality all the way. Plays & sounds as good as it gets. I couldn't recommend any guitar more than this one.

[RotcanX]

Ditto. This is the guitar that made me realize what an incredible instrument the ES-335 is.

[JEPI]

The more I read posts in this forum, the more I realize I really don't know sh*t about guitars. Learn me somethin' here; What does "kerfed inside" mean and how is it a desirable feature????............J

[RotcanX]

On a hollow body guitar, they apply a strip of triangular wood to the joints between the top/back and the sides in order to reinforce the joint. This wood is "kerfed" i.e. it has little slots cut into it every 1/4 inch or so which allow it to be easily bent to follow the curved sides of the guitar, hence this stuff is referred to as "kerfing".

 

[JEPI]

On a hollow body guitar' date=' they apply a strip of triangular wood to the joints between the top/back and the sides in order to reinforce the joint. This wood is "kerfed" i.e. it has little slots cut into it every 1/4 inch or so which allow it to be easily bent to follow the curved sides of the guitar, hence this stuff is referred to as "kerfing".

 

[img']http://www.granataguitars.com/images/tour/kerfblk2.jpg[/img]

 

RotcanX - Thanks for your reply. not to get "mushy" here but I gotta tell ya, I surf the Gibby and Fender forums as well as this one and find that here, the posts are far superior, IMO, with regard to knowledge, experience, humour and willingness to share information etc., etc. No offense to the other forums, but I'm glad there is so much action here that is viable and so freely given ............J

[Red 333]

Hey Tulsaslim:

 

Is that a 335 Elitist Dot?

I'm thinking about getting one myself. Please tell me: is it kerfed inside?

Thanks

 

****

 

The Elitist is kerfed. The advantage of kerfing is that it provides better contact between the top, sides, and back, making them transfer string vibration energy more as unit.

 

Great pics, RotcanX.

 

Red 333

[RotcanX]

...plus it gives you a solid joint. I think if the tops and backs were glued on without the kerfing the guitars would be hella fragile.

[JEPI]

Just for grins - I became curious after learning what "kerfing" meant so, I pulled out my acoustics to see if they were kerfed. '76 Martin D28 and 000-15: yes, '65 Epiphone: yes, Ovations: no (maybe due to the lycra bowl....So, now knowing that kerfing is a good thing, I open the "Esteban". Yeah, the cheapy acoustic/electric ($200.00 for the whole package) one you've seen on the info-mercials....Alas, it's kerfed.... I bought one of these for my grandson, (now playing an Epi LP) and liked it so much, I bought one for myself as well..I played it yesterday for about 3 hours, not too shabby......GO FIGURE, If Esteban requires it, you'd think that Epiphone would have put it in my Dot....snivel, snivel..........J