Vjr V3 Mods???

[fleetlin49]

What are the essential mods for a V3? I.E voltage change, r1 r2, output transformer etc. I've read so much stuff my mind is spinning right now! Also all I see is v1 and v2 referenced as needing such and such a mod. People aren't talking much on the v3 that I can find.

Thanks in advance

[Steven Lister]

What are the essential mods for a V3?

 

None at all. Epi did it right with ver. 3! i.e. larger stock OT' date=' no noise issues, etcetera so, all mods are purely optional.[/i']

SO, if you own a ver. 3, welcome to the thrilled to be a VJr. ver 3 owners' club -- BTW, all the other version owners are jealous.

 

You might want more clean headroom. If so, a simple tube upgrade (not a mod, so warranty stays intact) will take you there. Read through the tube threads for a wealth of advice. Or, keep it simple..., for more clean put a Tung Sol 12ax7/8033s gold pin reissue (or Phillips reissue 5751... for cleaner still) in preamp socket and JJ el84 in power tube socket and go.

 

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on :D

[Eracer_Team]

Well the Ver3 OT isn't bigger, its just the impedance is now more closely matched to the EL84 at 5k ohms (ver2 was at 7.2k ohms)

So you really don’t need an OT unless you are looking for just a little more bottom end (but you won’t get much).

 

As for the Voltages… YES.. They are a MUST…

 

Put your DMM on Pin7 of the EL84; you want that to read below 320vdc. Most stock VJ’s including Rev3 run nearly 344vdc on that pin. And Pin9 you want below 300vdc.

What it means is your running the output tube hotter than you need to and will just burn them out faster.

 

So the answer is, change R10 to a 820~1.2k ohm 5watt resistor, put in the screen grid resistor on Pin9 of the EL84 of 1k 1~2watt. Adjust R12 lower to compensate for the new screen grid resistor in the circuit..

 

Rest of the mod’s are for tone.

[TWANG]

need has two meanings here, too.

Everyone needs their voltages corrected.

But some of the other mods are to taste, and need is just a personal want.

that's the 'rest of the mods are for tone' part.

 

I'd be tempted to say they need a tone control, because I'm happy with the variations you get using different guitars, at different volume settings, compared to no variability with the stock head.

I like a little less treble when driving hard, and a little more when playing at lower volume.

A little less with p90s, a little more with humbucks.

[layboomo]

Well the Ver3 OT isn't bigger' date=' its just the impedance is now more closely matched to the EL84 at 5k ohms (ver2 was at 7.2k ohms)

So you really don’t need an OT unless you are looking for just a little more bottom end (but you won’t get much).

 

As for the Voltages… YES.. They are a MUST…

 

Put your DMM on Pin7 of the EL84; you want that to read below 320vdc. Most stock VJ’s including Rev3 run nearly 344vdc on that pin. And Pin9 you want below 300vdc.

What it means is your running the output tube hotter than you need to and will just burn them out faster.

 

So the answer is, change R10 to a 820~1.2k ohm 5watt resistor, put in the screen grid resistor on Pin9 of the EL84 of 1k 1~2watt. Adjust R12 lower to compensate for the new screen grid resistor in the circuit..

 

Rest of the mod’s are for tone.

[/quote']

 

This is the best advice so far IMHO. I personally wouldn't be too concerned with voiding the warranty on a $129 amp. I wouldn't put expensive tubes in without first adjusting the voltages. After that it's all about the types of tones your after.

[TWANG]

yeah, it's still the best advice so far! I like to keep a set of chinese tubes just for the testing and modding and break in. they're cheap but don't try to modify the tone with just them, because they don't sound so hot to start with.

Some use the stock tubes because they typically go to a JJ over the Sovtek and the EH gets mixed reviews. (JJ seems to be a main choice there, tol)

[Steven Lister]

As for the Voltages… YES.. They are a MUST…

Everyone needs their voltages corrected.

I wouldn't put expensive tubes in without first adjusting the voltages. (Steven Lister's note: I wouldn't either' date=' but power tubes are [u']not[/u] expensive = as in $8.50 - 15.00 Canadian.)

 

FALSE and BAD ADVICE in reply to the question that Fleetlin49 asked: "What mod is essential to a V3?"

The voltage lowering mod is not essential -- it is purely optional just like all other possible mods -- it may extend tube life (but even that is uncertain because there are so many variables to tube life that no one can legitimately say that they know for sure). Most agree that lowering plate voltage does not affect tone' date=' or as "wpkg" said in another thread "...I did not hear any difference when I did that." So, at best this mod will add ??? life to an $8.50 EL84 power tube that will need replaced somewhere between 6 months to 2+ years. Rip into your new amp (maybe to ruin something else) on the hope of saving a few measly pennies? Well, it is your amp, use it for a boat anchor if you like --- I say have your facts straight first.

 

[b']Fleetlin49 [/b](and anyone else reading this) --- you need to know that most of the members who reply to the Epiphone Amp topic questions are strongly in favor of modding all VJr.s. You read thread after thread here that discusses/encourages one mod or another (and a fair number of ooops..., well there goes some $$$..., now whats). But don't be misled!!! Most members started out with the older VJr. versions that really needed help. Some of them do not even own a version 3, so what does that say about their opinion regarding the V3? Outdated perhaps?

With VERSION 3 Epi changed the VJr. playbook --- and hence the crux of my words-to-the-wise

---- IMO it is unfair to new forum members and especially to new version 3 owners, to mislead them by advice such as quoted above --- it only encourages mods that are not really needed, and it stands a good chance of misleading the less technically proficient down a road that they do not want or need to be on. All good intentions aside, it is confusing (as Fleetlin' said his "head was spinning") not to mention dangerous/lethal for those who do not know how to deal with high tube amp voltages! For the proficient amp techs, fine, knock yourselves out: And those members here who know what they are doing will help guide you with good advice.

 

So, come on lads: How about a little more straight talk for the newbies, and a little less pro-mod hype all of the time? Like this:

Rest of the mod’s are for tone.

and this:

But some of the other mods are to taste' date=' and need is just a personal want.

that's the 'rest of the mods are for tone' part.[/quote'] and this:

After that it's all about the types of tones your after.

RIGHT ON...' date=' and right back to the first, cheapest, easiest tone tweak one should try out -- a tube upgrade! So, cheerlead each others misguided words as you will, my first advice stands --- and as a thrilled V3 (stock w/tube upgrade only) owner I submit this is the wise road for all new V3 owners to trod.

 

[center']Let the players play/enjoy/learn the nuances of their great new version 3

-- V3s do not need any mods!-- tinkering is (always really) purely optional.[/center]

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-"

[wpkg]

So' date=' come on lads: How about a little more straight talk for the newbies, and a little less pro-mod hype all of the time?[/quote']

 

isn't that exactly what the man asked for? I did not see a single reference to any of the mods that have been done, except for the voltage correction which many here feel IS an essential mod. As far as straight talk goes it doesn't really get much straighter. and as for it being FALSE advice... BS. Correcting the voltages DOES increase tube life so thats TRUE.

[TWANG]

---The voltage lowering mod is not essential -- it is purely optional just like all other possible mods --

 

No of course not. Neither are seat belts or air bags.

You can smash your head against the dashboard, or you can wear out your tubes.

 

--- it may extend tube life (but even that is uncertain because there are so many variables to tube life that no one can legitimately say that they know for sure).

 

That's twisted logic. I feel sure everyone will say that correct voltages to the tubes make a difference in longevity.

Variables here don't cancel each other out. Instead, correcting voltages means you reduce the probability, and also don't have two problems

working at once.

Otherwise all amps would have crazy voltages. Now, why do you suppose they don't? Is the 'sweet spot' a total myth?

I don't hear that ever. Not with any brand of amp.

 

And by they way, you don't just save pennies. Exaggeration is good for illustrating, but it needs to be realistic or it's just rhetoric.

You save dollars. You save time. You save the hassle of having a tube go bad at a gig. You can't KNOW how much longer your tube will last, because if you're running it for long periods or short.. cranked or very low in volume, you're going to get different results.

NOBODY is going to get shorter tube life out of that mod though, are they? It's not harmful, as you seem to suggest. It's always beneficial.

Again, it's not fair to just look at epi and epi mods here.. you're talking about basic amp design that all the manus agree with.. that is, they do adjust voltages to optimal efficiency.

 

And finally, it's just totally ingenuous of you to label these mods tinkering.. it's cute speechifying, but not representative of the experience and knowledge of the modders in here and elsewhere, who have done not only these amps but many many others as well.

These people aren't telling big lies and killing folks off just for kicks, or because they're stupid.. that's clear to anyone in here, or in any of the groups of people sharing their information.

Are you calling Gil and Lay and M Theory and Eracer tinkerers?

 

Dude.. I'M a tinkerer. And I'm not complaining.

Now, if I had electrocuted the dog, or caught my shop on fire.. I'd probably be pissed. At me.

But I could NOT come into this group and say.. you made me screw up, you big liars.

 

And I don't think anyone else can, either.

[cGil]

If your amp is chewing through power tubes at a rate of 1 (or more) per month, you would spend the price of another VJr just on tubes in the first year of ownership. A good power tube done right should last a couple years. Hell, I've got a Peavey Classis 50/50 with eight el84's that are over 10 years old and still sounding sweet.

 

Simply put, I consider the VJr power/bias mods to be definitely in the essential-mod category.

 

As to "tinkering" with the rest of the mods... well, a good education can be expensive. However, in the last couple years, I've spent far less on this "basic refresher course" learning tube amps than I ever did in college getting a computer electronics degree where I didn't even come close to learning me how to do these old school tricks. But it was a good head start on the need to know stuff. No regrets.

 

In summation, if you're here and motivated to learn, chances are, you'll do well and go far. If you're just here to tinker, you'll still have fun, but stock up on the aspirin. ;)

 

Gil...

[Eracer_Team]

Oh, I never noticed where Steven lived until re-reading this post.. "Location: Montreal, "New France" (or the other Canada)" .... this explains a lot to me as I also live in Canada.. Together we stand; divided we fall.

That aside…

 

NOTE to anyone looking to modify your amp or work on your amp… Join www.sewatt.com

 

Its free, you have a whole forum dedicated to work on amp’s with a wealth of safety information along with more modifications you can put into one amp (although some have tried)

[gibiphone]

Well the Ver3 OT isn't bigger' date=' its just the impedance is now more closely matched to the EL84 at 5k ohms (ver2 was at 7.2k ohms)

So you really don’t need an OT unless you are looking for just a little more bottom end (but you won’t get much).

 

As for the Voltages… YES.. They are a MUST…

 

Put your DMM on Pin7 of the EL84; you want that to read below 320vdc. Most stock VJ’s including Rev3 run nearly 344vdc on that pin. And Pin9 you want below 300vdc.

What it means is your running the output tube hotter than you need to and will just burn them out faster.

 

So the answer is, change R10 to a 820~1.2k ohm 5watt resistor, put in the screen grid resistor on Pin9 of the EL84 of 1k 1~2watt. Adjust R12 lower to compensate for the new screen grid resistor in the circuit..

 

Rest of the mod’s are for tone.

[/quote']

 

OK, thanks guys for this excellent string. On my VJ combo Ver3 I am going to follow Eracer's recommendations on the voltage adjustments, plus have a line level output jack installed for recording purposes. Can't do this for myself, but I have a price quote of $50. Does this sound like a fair price inclusive of parts??

 

Thanks again,

 

gibiphone

 

just north of the mexican line

[Eracer_Team]

a 1k 5watt resistor might be 30cents and a 4.7k 2~3watt resistor might be 20cents.. so parts about 50cents. Lineout takes a couple more 10cent resistors and a $2~$3 jack.

So you are paying mostly for labour, which isn't too bad I guess. In the mean time it doesn't hurt to read does it?

[gibiphone]

a 1k 5watt resistor might be 30cents and a 4.7k 2~3watt resistor might be 20cents.. so parts about 50cents. Lineout takes a couple more 10cent resistors and a $2~$3 jack.

So you are paying mostly for labour' date=' which isn't too bad I guess. In the mean time it doesn't hurt to read does it?[/quote']

 

Thank You for the response and the good info Eracer_Team, and . . . OUCH!!!

 

gibiphone

 

just north of the mexican line

[ssgfowler]

Just a sidenote on the voltages for the power tube.

I did all the mods for my Vjr over the course of about a month and a half. The voltages for the power tube was the very last thing I took care of, so I kept the stock Sovtek tube in the amp. About two days after everything was finished, I swear, POOF...

The power tube dies in a splash of silver stuff all over the inside of the it. I replaced it with a GT el84 I was saving for when I had it biased right. Its' been almost a year now and the Groove Tube el84 sounds just as good as ever, and no other problems. Ever. Period.

[Steven Lister]

What are the essential mods for a V3?... I've read so much stuff my mind is spinning right now! Also all I see is v1 and v2 referenced as needing such and such a mod. People aren't talking much on the v3 that I can find.

 

Fleetlin49’s question indicates that he is a new/prospective/unexperienced V3 owner and that he (and others out there) wants to know: Will the VJr. V3 play well out-of-the-box' date=' or do I have to work on it first?[/b']

 

The only right answer to that question is: No work is “essential” --- it plays fabulously out-of-the-box!!!

Plug it in, turn it on, warm it up, crank it up, and play it like a Jimi/Jimmy thing!

All mods are optional.

 

Besides, the voltage lowering mod is based solely on a theory. Theories are fine in laboratories but real life is something else. Your theory has not (maybe even cannot) be proven true in a V3. So far, no members have reported using up (burning out) a single power tube in any stock version V3 in wpkg’s recent thread “burned out el84?" And, what about all those other real life variables? Did high voltage cause failure or did _________ (you fill in the blank from hundreds of choices like: gigging, abuse, inadequate warm ups, etc.) So, based on the evidence so far, many can/will/should conclude that your high voltage mod is probably more speculative than even desireable (much less essential) and maybe not even worth the bother.

 

And yet, my calls to all of you to tell it straight resulted in your failures to acknowledge your own over-zealous mod approach (possibly clouded motives by virtue of your 'expertise' in modding the VJr.), not to mention your wholesale criticism of my straight talk approach (and more than a few slurs to my credibility including some nonsensical babble (or was that a prejudice rearing its ugly head?) about my “location”). :- Wha’d up with all that?

 

Like I said in another thread: Your replies sound more like BIG government and BIG business --- more important to defend your turf than to come clean with fleetlin49 (and members/the viewing public). I am trying to help them out -- I already did my homework.

 

Look, not telling it straight is harmful to new/prospective owners out there: Most of them just want to know real, uncomplicated answers. Most of them are players, not amp techs like you may very well be. So, when the question calls for a clear, straight answer, you owe it to members (fellow musicians) to tell it straight. Let them know the V3 is a great tool and let them play it awhile first to decide what they think/need. Later, if they want to rip ‘er up…, fine..., they own it, let ‘er rip.

 

BTW for those who need a primer -- es-sen-tial: indispensable, of the utmost importance -- from Webster’s Dictionary. TWANG – Your recent post on an R8/R9 removal experience clearly illustrates the meaning of something that is “essential” for the VJr. --- oh, and it is also an example of the “tinkering” I referred to.

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-"

[TWANG]

BTW for those who need a primer -- es-sen-tial: indispensable, of the utmost importance -- from Webster’s Dictionary. TWANG – Your recent post on an R8/R9 removal experience clearly illustrates the meaning of something that is “essential” for the VJr. --- oh, and it is also an example of the “tinkering” I referred to.

 

tell it to the guy who wrote it.

 

You can say this anyway you want to, I just have one thing to add.

My modded vj will blow the pants off a stock vj all the way around.

 

*s*

[Eracer_Team]

Steven: It appears quite obvious that you are very opinionated… Bright colours, bolded print and centered text.

Yes I did bring up the location since... Edit: pointless arugment comments edited out.

 

I can not believe that this subject has spawned over 3 threads now.

A person will fall into 2 categories.

1- a person will play the amp, get tired of it and will either put it in their closet or sell it and buy something with lots of buttons and dials.

or

2- a person will think there can be more to this thing and start asking questions on how to change it or modify it.

 

I for one don’t subscribe to the ‘I have to have all the buttons and dials’ but I don’t berate that person because they like buttons and dials that do everything include washing their shirts.

Doug

[strangedogs]

or a person like me that will add pedals as necessary to a fine AMP. The VJ "cooks" right outta the box - add some Reverb, Chorus, Delay, Rotary, etc and it just gets better. But the BASE AMP is one fineassed lil' mutha.

[Robo]

I've had a Valve Special for close to a year and a half, which I abused for several hours a day at home and playing out, and have a VJr that I've had for three months now. I boost them alot of the time too, and cranked open. I changed tubes right after I got each one as I don't like the sound of Sovteks. My wall voltage is flaky and my VOM reads 120 to 128 volts, sometimes more, depending on when the grain elevator next to me has stuff running, I have complained to the power company when it started hitting 150, they dealt with that.. I've done no mods whatsoever other than the tube changes when I got them. So when are my tubes supposed to start popping? I blow more tubes on my Fenders. I've been playing the VJr everyday since I got it.

[layboomo]

[layboomo]

"I've done no mods whatsoever other than the tube changes when I got them. So when are my tubes supposed to start popping? I blow more tubes on my Fenders. I've been playing the VJr everyday since I got it. "

 

OK .... the truth is that many tubes will operate at the limits of their specs for quite some time while others will fail very early due to high voltage etc... This whole thing isn't about how long a given tube will last run hotter than spec...it's about how to set the amp up correctly to run within the spec for the output voltage of a given tube...in this case an el-84.

[cGil]

Yep. Fenders are well known for pushing tubes to death. In the old days the tubes were cheep and far more rugged, so they could get away with building amps that way cuz the tubes would last a while. Modern tubes are wimpy. Fender hasn't changed the amps, just marketing strategy since they now sell tubes and can sell more of 'em as long as the amps keep chewing through 'em so fast.

 

But sometimes ya get lucky and get a good rugged tube. And sometimes you get doubly lucky and find yourself with an underwound PT. I've seen those occasionally on VJr. None are exactly the same, but more often than not they tend to run on the overwound side and push the tube into oblivion really quick with wall voltage between 120 and 125vAC. And yes, I've seen a few Sovteks, EHs, and JJ's that didn't last a week, and many more that didn't make it a whole month.

 

So, if your tubes are lasting and you're happy with the tone, then, be happy. But if your amp eats tubes like they're going out of style, check your voltages inside the amp and proceed accordingly.

 

Gil...

[Steven Lister]

---------

Painting a simple and fuller/better picture for the new & prospective VJr. V3 owners out there is the grander design and my only objective: And the V3 information on this forum is now better because of it. I have great respect for fellow musicians who will read this new V3 info. and then decide what is right for them.

---------

 

--- Those of you who hit below the belt (you know who you are and now so does everyone else): Your opinion is your prerogative, good, bad, right, wrong, or indifferent.

Whatever your decision is regarding the voltage situation if it works for you, okay, but it is definitely not essential and is most definitely not for everyone. So, are you really more interested in intimidating readers away who have viewpoints different from your own than you are in encouraging members to openly discuss the topics that have multiple points of view? Uh, no not me, I’m not going away (perhaps to your chagrin). But the others looking in may see your callous, off-topic personal tirades and conclude that this is not such a friendly/helpful forum after all: Steven Lister said, "there's another way to look at this idea -- tell it straight" -- and look at what happened to him!

--- Is that your objective? – some kind of exclusive club of robot-like “yes members”?

 

Fleetlin49 & other NEW & PROSPECTIVE MEMBERS: If you don't already know this, no other member dictates what goes on here:

Ask your questions. Read with a cautious eye. Speak your mind. Most of us here keep it real.

FREEDOM of EXPRESSION = POWER to the MUSICIAN-people (Right On!)

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-"

[wpkg]

 

Fleetlin49’s question indicates that he is a new/prospective/unexperienced V3 owner and that he (and others out there) wants to know: Will the VJr. V3 play well out-of-the-box' date=' or do I have to work on it first?[/b']

 

The only right answer to that question is: No work is “essential” --- it plays fabulously out-of-the-box!!!

Plug it in, turn it on, warm it up, crank it up, and play it like a Jimi/Jimmy thing!

All mods are optional.

 

Besides, the voltage lowering mod is based solely on a theory. Theories are fine in laboratories but real life is something else. Your theory has not (maybe even cannot) be proven true in a V3. So far, no members have reported using up (burning out) a single power tube in any stock version V3 in wpkg’s recent thread “burned out el84?" And, what about all those other real life variables? Did high voltage cause failure or did _________ (you fill in the blank from hundreds of choices like: gigging, abuse, inadequate warm ups, etc.) So, based on the evidence so far, many can/will/should conclude that your high voltage mod is probably more speculative than even desireable (much less essential) and maybe not even worth the bother.

 

And yet, my calls to all of you to tell it straight resulted in your failures to acknowledge your own over-zealous mod approach (possibly clouded motives by virtue of your 'expertise' in modding the VJr.), not to mention your wholesale criticism of my straight talk approach (and more than a few slurs to my credibility including some nonsensical babble (or was that a prejudice rearing its ugly head?) about my “location”). :) Wha’d up with all that?

 

Like I said in another thread: Your replies sound more like BIG government and BIG business --- more important to defend your turf than to come clean with fleetlin49 (and members/the viewing public). I am trying to help them out -- I already did my homework.

 

Look, not telling it straight is harmful to new/prospective owners out there: Most of them just want to know real, uncomplicated answers. Most of them are players, not amp techs like you may very well be. So, when the question calls for a clear, straight answer, you owe it to members (fellow musicians) to tell it straight. Let them know the V3 is a great tool and let them play it awhile first to decide what they think/need. Later, if they want to rip ‘er up…, fine..., they own it, let ‘er rip.

 

BTW for those who need a primer -- es-sen-tial: indispensable, of the utmost importance -- from Webster’s Dictionary. TWANG – Your recent post on an R8/R9 removal experience clearly illustrates the meaning of something that is “essential” for the VJr. --- oh, and it is also an example of the “tinkering” I referred to.

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-"

 

Oh My God... brother if you have a woman go see her immediately; if you do not, go get one. you are spending FAR FAR too much time and energy on this. play your amp and shut up. there I said it. flame me if you want. but im done with this now and I hope you are too.