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Counterfeit Elitist dot ES-335?


jzucker

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I bought an elitist dot-335 off ebay but I was surprised to find out that it had a spliced neck (headstock and neck-heel). I thought the elitist series utilized a solid neck. Can anyone let me know if this is correct for this model?

 

It is serial number: T706115

 

Guitar plays and sounds great but I want to make sure it's legit. I emailed photos and the serial # to gibson but haven't heard back from them yet.

 

link to the auction: here

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I'm just puzzled because I've owned several elitist guitars and don't remember any of them having spliced necks. The splice job is really good. Looks like it's from the same piece of wood so it's hard to see unless the light is just right. Maybe I just never noticed it before but I'm pretty sure I've read before that one of the differences between the elitist and regular line was the one piece necks. Could this be something they started in 2007?

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I bought an elitist dot-335 off ebay but I was surprised to find out that it had a spliced neck (headstock and neck-heel). I thought the elitist series utilized a solid neck. Can anyone let me know if this is correct for this model?

 

It is serial number: T706115

 

Guitar plays and sounds great but I want to make sure it's legit. I emailed photos and the serial # to gibson but haven't heard back from them yet.

 

link to the auction: here

 

That guitar is fine, and most definitely an Elitist. The photo of the headstock shows the two added Mahogany portions, that are standard on Epiphone/Gibson guitars, and yes the heel does come in two pieces on the Elitists, and this is a concession to economy, but you will find on the standard Epiphone line, that the necks are made up of many pieces of lower quality Mahagany, with the h/stock spliced onto the rest of the neck.

 

Good luck with your purchase it looks a fine guitar.

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It's not just the heel that's spliced. The headstock is spliced with a scarf joint like the cheaper epi guitars. As I said, I don't remember this before so it's likely something that epi added to reduce cost in the 2007 model year. Very disappointing as I assumed I was paying for higher quality.

 

 

That guitar is fine' date=' and most definitely an Elitist. The photo of the headstock shows the two added Mahogany portions, that are standard on Epiphone/Gibson guitars, and yes the heel does come in two pieces on the Elitists, and this is a concession to economy, but you will find on the standard Epiphone line, that the necks are made up of many pieces of lower quality Mahagany, with the h/stock spliced onto the rest of the neck.

 

Good luck with your purchase it looks a fine guitar.[/quote']

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Wish I would have seen that guitar=p~

 

I dig that headstock style.... My 1971 ET-275 has the same type of headstock style.... And the neck is a 3 piece jobber, and that sucker has held up perfectly 38 years.... I think you won't have any issues with your new Dot acquisition...

 

Congrats and Welcome to the forum!!!

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Just did an image search, on "Elitist" Dot's, and all depicted had the scarf joints. Some...the Sunburst,

and Cherry ones, are a bit harder to see, due to the finishing...but, they're they have them, just the same.

Like you, I didn't think "Elitist" guitars had "scarf joints," on the necks...but, you learn something everyday!

 

Cheers,

CB

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I have a dozen Elitists, and I've never seen one with a scarf joint. They do have the small heel extension you describe, but otherwise are always one-piece. The wings on the headstock (as shown in the picture) are completely normal, and are found on Gibsons, too. They are considered cosmetic, and not structural, like a joint that would attach a headstock to a neck, which is what you seem to see. Can you post a picture so we can see it? It may just be an area where the mahogany changes color. Sometimes the carve in the area behind the truss rod (where the round neck is transitioning to a wider and flat headstock) reveals differences in grain pattern in the varying depth of the wood. That could be what you see.

 

Red 333

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Just did an image search' date=' on "Elitist" Dot's, and all depicted had the scarf joints. Some...the Sunburst,

and Cherry ones, are a bit harder to see, due to the finishing...but, they're they have them, just the same.

Like you, I didn't think "Elitist" guitars had "scarf joints," on the necks...but, you learn something everyday!

 

Cheers,

CB[/quote']

 

All of mine one-piece, except for the J200, Broadway, and Byrdland, which you would expect to have 3 or 5-piece maple necks. Of course, these are not considered the "joints" we are concerned with here, as this kind of laminated construction is considered superior in a maple (or other soft wood) neck.

 

My 2006 catalog makes reference to "...one-piece mahogany necks, hand shaped." In the specs, the Elitist Dot neck is listed as "1-pc Mahogany." Same in the 2007 catalog. Same in the 2004 catalog.

 

Also, only Natural Elitist Dots were available after 2006. I could understand if Epiphone changed specs as production was winding down, but why would Cherry or Sunburst Dots made BEFORE that not have the same one-piece neck?

 

Red 333

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I have a dozen Elitists' date=' and I've never seen one with a scarf joint. They do have the small heel extension you describe, but otherwise are always one-piece. The wings on the headstock (as shown in the picture) are completely normal, and are found on Gibsons, too. They are considered cosmetic, and not structural, like a joint that would attach a headstock to a neck, which is what you seem to see. Can you post a picture so we can see it? It may just be an area where the mahogany changes color. Sometimes the carve in the area behind the truss rod (where the round neck is transitioning to a wider and flat headstock) reveals differences in grain pattern in the varying depth of the wood. That could be what you see.

 

Red 333[/quote']

 

No, this is definitely a scarf joint. It's very hard to see because the wood grain matches pretty well. I'm guessing they took a long board and the scarf joint is from the same board but if the lighting is just right you can see it.

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All of mine one-piece' date=' except for the J200, Broadway, and Byrdland, which you would expect to have 3 or 5-piece maple necks. Of course, these are not considered the "joints" we are concerned with here, as this kind of laminated construction is considered superior in a maple (or other soft wood) neck.

 

My 2006 catalog makes reference to "...one-piece mahogany necks, hand shaped." In the specs, the Elitist Dot neck is listed as "1-pc Mahogany." Same in the 2007 catalog. Same in the 2004 catalog.

 

Also, only Natural Elitist Dots were available after 2006. I could understand if Epiphone changed specs as production was winding down, but why would Cherry or Sunburst Dots made BEFORE that not have the same one-piece neck?

 

Red 333 [/quote']

 

Mine *IS* natural and is a 2007. In another thread someone mentions having a bunch of elitists and they all have scarf joints. Anyway, I guess my question is answered.

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Just did an image search' date=' on "Elitist" Dot's, and all depicted had the scarf joints. Some...the Sunburst,

and Cherry ones, are a bit harder to see, due to the finishing...but, they're they have them, just the same.

Like you, I didn't think "Elitist" guitars had "scarf joints," on the necks...but, you learn something everyday!

 

Cheers,

CB[/quote']

 

Elitist necks do have heel extensions and headstock extensions (known as "wings"), but that doesn't disqualify them as being one piece, as they are cosmetic. Gibson uses the same wings to shape their headstocks. These are the extra pieces of wood to the sides of the tuners that are used to provide the manufacture's identifying shape. The sides of a Martin peghead are straight; a Gibson has a scalloped peghead. The scallop is created by laminating pieces of wood to the sides of the peghead. These (or the heel extension) create no interferance in string energy being transmitted to the body, like a scarf joint beteen the neck and headstock would, or lower in the neck above the heel. That is why an a one-piece neck (or a neck that is laminated vertically) is so valued; there is no horizontal joint (like a scarf joint) to disrupt the acoustic energy as it travels down the neck.

 

CB, are you sure what you see is not just the vertical joint between the solid headstock and the cosmetic wings on either side of it? Or, do you see a joint that runs horizontall bewteen the neck and the headstcock (or a V shaped one lower in the neck), effectively joining the headstock to the neck (like on a standard Epi)? Please clarify and link to your pics, because a lot of false info gets started this way...

 

Red 333

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Mine *IS* natural and is a 2007. In another thread someone mentions having a bunch of elitists and they all have scarf joints. Anyway' date=' I guess my question is answered.[/quote']

 

Hmm...not to be unkind, but most people on this forum would not recognize a scarf joint, so I take "someone mentions having a bunch of elitists and they all have scarf joints" with a grain of salt. I don't doubt what you see in front of you, though. Maybe the factory tried to salvage a broken neck, and you are the unfortunate recipient. I would still be interested in a good pic.

 

The long and short of it is an Elitist is suppossed to have a one-piece neck. I have an Elitist Dot, Casino, SG, two Les Pauls, Texan, McCartney Texan, Revolution Casino, Lennon '65 Casino...all have one piece necks. As I say, the Elitist Brodway, Byrdland, and J200 are built as they should be with multi-piece necks, but no scarf or other unwanted joints. Please read my explanation of multi-piece necks above if you took a post that I made elsewhere to mean I had Elitists with scarf joints. I do not, and they are not SUPPOSSED to be made that way.

 

Red 333

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Elitist necks do have heel extensions and headstock extensions (known as "wings")' date=' but that doesn't disqualify them as being one piece, as they are cosmetic. Gibson uses the same wings to shape their headstocks. These are the extra pieces of wood to the sides of the tuners that are used to provide the manufacture's identifying shape. The sides of a Martin peghead are straight; a Gibson has a scalloped peghead. The scallop is created by laminating pieces of wood to the sides of the peghead. These (or the heel extension) create no interferance in string energy being transmitted to the body, like a scarf joint beteen the neck and headstock would, or lower in the neck above the heel. That is why an a one-piece neck (or a neck that is laminated vertically) is so valued; there is no horizontal joint (like a scarf joint) to disrupt the acoustic energy as it travels down the neck.

 

[b']CB, are you sure what you see is not just the vertical joint between the solid headstock and the cosmetic wings on either side of it? Or, do you see a joint that runs horizontall bewteen the neck and the headstcock (or a V shaped one lower in the neck), effectively joining the headstock to the neck (like on a standard Epi)? Please clarify and link to your pics, because a lot of false info gets started this way...[/b]

Red 333

 

Posted pics on the other thread, and the joint at the heel is quite obvious...the headstock joint (if that's what it

in fact is?) is a bit "if'y." And I know about the "wings" on headstocks. All my Gibson's and Epi's have those!

Plus, it's amazing when you go to look for close-up images, of a specific part, how they

can suddenly become very rare! LOL! But...have a look at those photos, and see what YOU think. And, also...I

was not being "Definitive," regarding this...just stating what I had seen, when I looked it up. ALL of my Korean

Epi's have "scarf joints," and it doesn matter at all. They play very well, no tuning instabilities (beyong what I've

already addressed, via the nut, and adding a bit of graphite, when required), or any other "issues." So...it's "no

biggie," to me. Sorry...if I caused any concern, or upset anyone, with what I observed and reported.

 

CB

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Here, maybe these will help?? Neck joint is obvious.

ELDT-CH_heel.jpg

311925400-2.jpg

The headstock joint "seems" somewhat obvious, too. But, maybe not? There's a definite difference

in shading/density, and what looks like a "U" shaped seam, a bit below the "Elitist" logo. The neck

is lighter in color, too. However...the "hightlight" is interrupted in the upper 1/2 of the neck, and resumes

for a very short distance, toward the headstock. So...that's "odd," too. Who knows??! And, apparently...

according to the originator of this and the other like minded thread, Gibson/Epiphone are playing dumb,

or..."ain't talking!" ;>b LOL!

 

CB

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I can see the scarf in that pic easy enough. The piece scarfed on is almost definitely from the same piece as the neck. They cut the head stock off the neck with a shallow angle, flip it over, and glue it back on. That creates the angled head stock. Many believe this makes a stronger neck because of the lack of 'short' grain right at the angle, where Gibsons almost always break.

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Yeah, I've seen 'em that way, too....more often, actually! Does yours have the heal scarf, or not?

And, what happened to your original posting? You mentioned later, that it had both heel and head-

stock scarf joint, and yet this photo clearly shows no headstock scarf joint. I'm confused!

 

CB

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It's not just the heel that's spliced. The headstock is spliced with a scarf joint like the cheaper epi guitars. As I said' date=' I don't remember this before so it's likely something that epi added to reduce cost in the 2007 model year. Very disappointing as I assumed I was paying for higher quality.

[/quote']

 

As per the above posting:

 

????

 

CB

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Yeah' date=' I've seen 'em that way, too....more often, actually! Does yours have the heal scarf, or not?

And, what happened to your original posting? You mentioned later, that it had both heel and head-

stock scarf joint, and yet this photo clearly shows no headstock scarf joint. I'm confused!

 

CB[/quote']

 

after I realized I was wrong I cleared it out. I would have deleted it but the forum apparently doesn't support deletes.

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after I realized I was wrong I cleared it out. I would have deleted it but the forum apparently doesn't support deletes.

 

Dont even worry about being wrong.... The group here isnt out to make a spectacle of anyone..... Rest assure, myself or sexygibson will not allow that here.

 

If you like I can put your original post back in???? These type of threads are very helpful to other members.... But I'll only do this if it's okay with you.

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Yeah, jzucker...I wasn't getting on your "case," really...just was a bit confused, as to what had happened. Never worry

about being "mistaken," here. I get "corrected" all the time (in the nicest way, generally), when I scew up! In fact, I'm

usually harder on myself, than any of the guys/gals here, are. So...not to worry!

 

CB

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