ant7629 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Hi guys I know this is a guitar forum, but the advice is always good on here and its a nice friendly atmosphere. I am trying my hand at home recording and have some questions about what I need. I want to mic up my Fender Blues Deulxe to my Mac and record the sound on there. I have experiented using a very cheap mic but I get a huge amount of 'buzzing' background noise and the levels are way off. Should I be hearing a sound from the amp when I'm not playing? I am not really concerned with software to add effects etc. as I just want the sound from the amp to be recorded. I understand I will have to buy some equipment to have any success here, so I assume I need a good mic and maybe some sort of interface to adjust the levels. I don't want to spend a huge amount as this is just for hobby purposes and if I do have any money lying around it usually goes on guitars Any help would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarpBoy Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Hi guys I know this is a guitar forum' date=' but the advice is always good on here and its a nice friendly atmosphere. I am trying my hand at home recording and have some questions about what I need. I want to mic up my Fender Blues Deulxe to my Mac and record the sound on there. I have experiented using a very cheap mic but I get a huge amount of 'buzzing' background noise and the levels are way off. Should I be hearing a sound from the amp when I'm not playing? I am not really concerned with software to add effects etc. as I just want the sound from the amp to be recorded. I understand I will have to buy some equipment to have any success here, so I assume I need a good mic and maybe some sort of interface to adjust the levels. I don't want to spend a huge amount as this is just for hobby purposes and if I do have any money lying around it usually goes on guitars :- Any help would be appreciated. [/quote'] It depends on what you're after from a quality perspective, but at a minimum you should use a decent mic (you should be able to find a used Shure SM57 for around $60) and don't plan on using the sound card built in your computer. These have far too much internal noise. I would suggest a USB interface of some sort that converts the recorded sound to digital and then sends it into your computer that way. You'll get a much higher quality result. You should be able to find something like a Tascam US122 used for another $50-60 dollars. There are many, many different models of audio interfaces available and you don't have to spend much. Bottom line: decent mic and an external interface. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyg Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Hi I'm afraid I've never used a Mac but I've attempted the same thing on a PC. When using a cheap mic on the PC the first thing is to make sure that "Mic" is selected as the input source. There is an option to use "Stereo Mix" which will record what comes in from the "Mic" input but is not as good. I've had fair results using that option but it does depend on the internal sound chip/card. Another option is to use a dynamic mic (the Shure SM57 is pretty much the standard) through a mic pre-amp as that will boost the mics output to line level and those will probably cost (new) around £75.00 each UK. As far as audio interfaces are concerned there are three options, internal PCI (obviously not an option on a laptop), Firewire and USB. It would be hard to recommend one as everyone has their own preference. They start at around £100.00 and after that the sky's the limit (plus you still need to buy a mic). Good makes, Tascam, Fostex and EMU but there are others equally as good and maybe better. If you're just wanting to record the sound of your guitar/amp that'll work fine, it's when you want to overdub another guitar, drums or bass that it becomes a world of pain. Latency is the biggest problem and frankly one I never resolved. I finally gave up and bought one of those digital 8 tracks for around £400.00. That gave me 8 track recording, guitar and (phantom power equipped) XLR mic inputs, built in FX and a CD writer to burn the results to. In the time it takes my PC to boot and set up the software etc I can get half a track laid down and it NEVER crashes. Actually if you don't want to overdub any other instruments one of the new portable stereo recorders with built in mic's from Tascam/Fostex/Zoom will do the job for about £150.00 and you can transfer the recordings to your Mac over USB or Firewire. Good luck with it anyway. JG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Bottom line: decent mic and an external interface. +1 The way you are recording now is through a mic into your computer's sound card. When I first began dabbling in recording I tried much the same thing - and never had any usable results. Loads of unpleasant computer noise. I tried to filter this out after I had finished recording, but still ended up with disagreeable digital sounds. The only way to use a computer for recording as a home-based hobbyist is with a USB interface. Luckily these have now become quite affordable. I would suggest looking at the Line 6 Pod Studio range. http://line6.com/podstudio/ These start with the Pod Studio GX (£62) and then move up to the UX1 (£89), and then the UX2 (£134). See: http://www.imuso.co.uk/Studio/Processing/Audio-MIDI-Interfaces/Line-6-Interfaces for prices from an English retailer. All 3 models basically do the same thing, and use the same software. The more expensive models have more bells & whistles (e.g. phantom power for a condenser mic, etc.) You can use these interfaces with their own (excellent) amp modeling software (simply plug your guitar into the interface and play,) or you can bypass all that and use it as a simple digital interface to record from your own (mic'ed up) amp. Thinking about recording software...if you haven't used this before then I'd start off with Audacity (it's absolutely free, and very easy to use) http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ ...and after you have the hang of that, move up to a proper D.A.W. such as Reaper: http://www.reaper.fm/ (free to trial with a while with full usability, $60 thereafter.) Good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant7629 Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Thanks guys. I have heard a lot about the Shure SM57 so thats a definite. As for an interface, you are right.... its a minefield out there! So do you think that the "buzzing/sound" the current cheap mic picks up will clear with a good mic/interface. I mean, every amp makes some sort of sound when switched on doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Thanks guys. I have heard a lot about the Shure SM57 so thats a definite. As for an interface' date=' you are right.... its a minefield out there! So do you think that the "buzzing/sound" the current cheap mic picks up will clear with a good mic/interface. I mean, every amp makes some sort of sound when switched on doesn't it?[/quote'] Much as I would love a Shure SM57 to record with, I'm stuck with a cheap dynamic mic...a 'Digital Reference' or some such brand (a $30 piece of junk I picked up at Guitar Center.) But through my USB interface it is, at least, perfectly clean with no extraneous noise. The unwanted sounds you are hearing are most likely from your computer, not from your mic. You'll notice the difference when you are no longer recording through your computer's soundcard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twanger Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 I have a cheap sound card - all of $9.95 at newegg.com. It's a 5.1 cause I like sub with my tunes. It also has a mic input on an 1/8" connector. To me this =cheezy and cheap. Anyway I have a Vox ToneLab LE and it has stereo outs which I can dial in for recording direct and driving an amp. Once I got Audacity (free recording program) to recognize the input and play nice with it, it's worked just fine. I run one output to the computer and and one to the amp and dial in the amp/fx on the ToneLab and off I go. The ToneLab sounds great recorded and through the amp. Of course, other modeling/FX units will do the same for you. When it comes to using microphones though I'm a big believer in using a mixer and then using the mixer's output to go into whatever recording unit is being used. Yes, I am a dinosaur in real life! :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyg Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 When it comes to using microphones though I'm a big believer in using a mixer and then using the mixer's output to go into whatever recording unit is being used. Yes' date=' I am a dinosaur in real life! ;)[/quote']Yup, that's a tried and tested way and it's gonna work everytime. Some of my best sounding recordings were made by using two cassette recorders through a mixer and overdubbing as I went along. As long as it's not too intrusive who really cares about a bit of noise anyway. Get the levels right and the problems not generally that bad. Put me down on the extinct list too.:- So do you think that the "buzzing/sound" the current cheap mic picks up will clear with a good mic/interface. I mean' date=' every amp makes some sort of sound when switched on doesn't it?[/quote']Most amps buzz a bit and if you have them up loud or use a lot of the overdrive setting it will buzz even more. If you were using an old CRT monitor and a Strat or Tele the noise could be horrendous. A mic (and even those cheap £2.00 things from PC World are not bad for the money) only picks up what it hears so if the buzz originates at your amp it's not probable that even the best pre-amp/mic combination is gonna get rid of it. Frankly I only have a built in soundchip in my PC but I've often recorded to it with a mic or even old vinyl albums from a record deck and in my experience the results have been more than reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant7629 Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Well I have been doing some testing and the "buzzing" noise is definitely from the computer, so you are right. It seems it only does it with certain software ( was using iMovie). I tried Audacity and all is good on the computer front. I definitely need a new mic and I am also going to look into the interfaces. I have found some that are desktop mics with the interface and controls built in, but not sure how well they perform! Everywhere I go people tell me to just get a Shure 57. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Before I bought my tube amp, I used guitar rig 3 on my Mac..... I went and bought one of these...... It is a great piece of kit...... http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Focusrite-Saffire-FireWire-Audio-Interface-?sku=245020 then as an experiment I bought one of these so I could plug my guitar straight in the mini jack input on my Mac... http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062446&CAWELAID=107594279 and used that with Garageband and the computer outputting to a old NAD amplifier and two good speakers try it....... the latter it is cheaper :-) Guitar straight into the Mac soundcard and records straight into Garageband 09 which has about 40 amp presets and then you can always configure your own settings.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narc999 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Lets start with your Mac... 1) I assume you have a Macbook pro or a Mac Pro. Those Apple computers were made for professional audio in mind. I mention these models because they have a "Audio Line In" Port which makes it very easy and handy to reroute your amp. If you dont have a MacbookPro model and you just have a Macbook, never fear. You will just need to pick up an external audio card. I like the following because they can be used for everything from DJing to Guitar and mic: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackPro.html (Plug and play with mac and the software.) But any external audio card will do. 2) If you have a Mac I assume you have GarageBand or Logic Studio. These are my recommendations for software. Logic Studio is broad and will cover just about any genre of music. Not to mention that this is studio quality software and will be great if you want to fine tweak your sound. And if you are on a budget, GarageBand is a quick and free way to make your vision come true. GarageBand comes free with every mac and is basically Logic Studio Light.... Get familiar with that application, but in general all you need to do is go to GarageBand Preferences and set your Audio Input to "Built In Input" Now if you have Logic Studio, you have access to a handy application called MainStage. MainStage is an application that will model just about any pedel, amp combination you can ever think of. It is used for live performances and hooks up to many midi driven foot pedels. Either of these applications will allow you to record your guitar sessions and mix them with audio loops of any sort. 3) Now comes time to hook up your guitar. Guitar can now get hooked up to your amp. Some amps have this handy feature: "Phones/Record Out" My Line 6 does and makes it handy to reroute the audio to your mac. Now if you don't have the "Phones/Record Out" jack on your amp you have some options: a) Use the audio card mentioned above and plug in the guitar directly to audio card. (forgoing the amp.) Use GarageBand or Logic to mimic the sound of the amp and then save it off. You wont have to worry about buzz at this point because unless your wires in your guitar arent shielded enough, you will not get it. Connect a microphone to the audio card mentioned above and place it infront of your amp. You will also need to find the sweet spot to place your mic in front of the amp. You can probably find that spot yourself or on the forums. (THis is an art so be patient) Now about the buzzing noise if you go with option "b". I personally find that noise cool in any recording... but if its just not your thing, You could use software to minimize the buzz. Logic studio probably has the ability to minimize ambient noise. Other software like guitar rig 4 might have that as well. Hope this helps... NARCO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant7629 Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Thanks for the responses guys. I have got a lot of things to think about now..... Narc, I have an iMac which has a line in so I'm guessing the sound card is similar to the MacBook. I have got garage band but I haven't got to grips with it yet. To be honest, all I really want to do is record the sound from my amp. I've got nothing against effects and modulation, but I'm a bit of a dinosoar and just use a little overdrive before the amp. As for backing, I just record the layers on my trusty boss looper. I know, I need to wake up and smell the 21st century! I also would like to record myself playing so I can publish on something like YouTube. For video, the built in camera on my mac is fine, it's just this micing up and sound quality that's suffering. The vids on YouTube that are miced sound much better IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m16516 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 recording is what i do for a living (or i will when im out of school for it) and honestly you dont want to use the audio line in... you want to use some sort of usb/fire wire/scussi. I use the m-audio mobile pre usb. It cost about $60 on ebay. Also i would reccomend using the sure sm57 or sm58 to mic your amp (if you want it for cheap) if you want to spend a bit more money buy a condenser mic they have better sound but require phantom power. Record into logic studio (preferrably) but if you dont own a copy of tha go with garage band. As for using the EQ in logic/garage band i dont reccomend it while your micing an amp. Use pedals b4 the amp. But if you plug straight in logic and garage band both have decent EQ settings and im sure you would be able to find your exact sound from the amp you have with them. Hopefully this helped alittle bit and good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narc999 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 I agree, the cleanest sound will come from a sound card. But if you are on a budget, the line in is "good enough" to start with. (Trying to cover the starving musican and the potential pro all in one shot...) You can spend alot of money making this work, but if you are like me, you can start with a proof of concept and work from there. If you have a MAC, I suggest that you go to your nearest Apple store and ask for an hour with an apple genius. They can walk you through this process and set it up at the store. Likewise you can take a basic Garageband class there and get specific questions asked. They will be happy to help and you can showcase your skills at an Apple store. Mac Geniuss will set up a prototype at a local store and allow you to test it out. It is hugely worth the time to get it right and get a great explaination of everything in the process. thanks NARCO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Honestly check out youtube there are guys there using garageband in macbooks plugging guitars straight in to the line in with 1/4 to 1/8 adapters that cost buttons and there are examples of people use kit like the Focusrite Saffire I have and Cubase LE Guitar Rig. Experiment, I suppose it like the logic of buying GFS pickups first. Try the low tech options "fully" the if that aint working go to the next technology. I love playing around with different amps in Garageband. I even use it for tuning up (Garageband has a fine chromatic tuner built in) through that cheap 1/4 to 1/8 adapter. Obviously if I wanted to do some serious recording I would use the Saffire aand Cubase LE but for just recording and listening to how things are panning out with your playing the cheap jack adapter does the job. [YOUTUBE] [/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanH Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Is this of any use? [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMH1niFOkCE[/YOUTUBE] BTW, I use a Zoom H4 portable 4 track recording device which is great for me, if a little user unfriendly. It has built in zoom effects and amp models too. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec06/articles/zoomh4.htm You could also consider a Boss Micro BR 4-track recorder. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb07/articles/bossmicrobr.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peeper Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Ok, some good advice here, and not so good. I have been recording in professional studios for the last 20 years, and have operated a modest home studio the last 8. There is a lot to learn here. I suggest heading over to this site TweakHeadz and reading the guide at the very least 3 times. Here is the basics. The on board sound is junk, you will need an audio interface. The audio in jack on your mac is not intended for actually recording audio, not the way you want anyways. If track count is not a factor, USB will be fine. You will need a decent pre amp. Some AI's come with useable ones, many do not. You will need a mic. Don't get a USB mic, again, it's junk. More records were made with a 57 than not. It will be the most versatile mic you ever buy, get one now. Using a condenser mic will cause more problems than it solves unless it is in a treated space. That and the high SPLs guitar amps produce will over load most LDC and SDC mics to death. GarageBand is not "Logic Lite". Logic Express IS. GB records at only 16 bit, is very limited in its editing capabilities, and has nothing for plugs included ( not really), but is a great way to get your feet wet. Mic placement as stated is an art unto itself. As is gain staging. Record so you NEVER get near -0db, this is digital, not analog we;re talking. The days of "record as hot a signal as you can before clipping" are long over. I go for an average of about -16db with peaks no more than -8db. Digital clipping is not pretty and there is no way to undo it after you screw it up. And the last tip I am giving now. Use much less amp gain than you think you need. If you play with the gain on 8, try recording with it on 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 This has got out of hand.... The guy only asked... I want to mic up my Fender Blues Deulxe to my Mac and record the sound on there. I don't want to spend a huge amount as this is just for hobby purposes and if I do have any money lying around it usually goes on guitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant7629 Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Ok, so I need to get myself a Shure 57. No question. As for the interface, I am going to try and get m-audio mobile pre USB as m16516 suggests. I have done a little research online and they seem to be readily available form the guitar stores around here. And I guess I will take it from there. A big thank you to everyone on this. This forum never lets me down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peeper Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 M-Audio is known for crappy customer support, and bad drivers. Plus that particular AI has many know issues. I would recommend this thing if you are trying to do it on the cheap. http://www.zzounds.com/item--TASUS122MKII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanH Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 If you do want to do 'studio quality' recordings of your guitar sounds then the Tascam US-122 mkII and the renowned Shure SM57 mic seem like excellent recommendations. However, for doing a few youtube recordings sans buzzing/interference I don't think you need to be considering recording studio quality gear, even at the ultra budget end of studio quality (unless that's what you want to go on youtube). For the sort of money that has been suggested to spend on an audio interface and a mic you could instead get yourself a four track pocket recorder such as my Zoom H4. With this I can record anywhere without lugging a laptop around using the built in mic, or I can go direct in through a jack using an onboard amp model and just listen with headphones. I can bounce and mix multiple tracks and apply onboard effects such as reverb, modulations, delays, compressors etc. to selected tracks. These little devices are also great for noodling around with your own riffs and ideas. Indeed, the Zoom H4 can also just be used as a guitar processor for messing about on. If you don't have many effects pedals then it's perfectly OK for doing just that except that you have to go in to menus to change the different settings on each amp model and effect. If you did get one of these and then decided you'd like to do recording on a more serious level you could then start to build up equipment such as professional mics, monitors and midi controllers and still use the recorder as an audio interface until you decide to get a better one. I'd love to get to the home studio stage but I just don't have the time or the right environment to do it in with having a young family. Hopefully, when they're older, my boys will be pestering me to set one up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarpBoy Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Well I have been doing some testing and the "buzzing" noise is definitely from the computer' date=' so you are right. It seems it only does it with certain software ( was using iMovie). I tried Audacity and all is good on the computer front. I definitely need a new mic and I am also going to look into the interfaces. I have found some that are desktop mics with the interface and controls built in, but not sure how well they perform! Everywhere I go people tell me to just get a Shure 57.[/quote'] One other option I just thought of is that you can get USB versions of some decent quality mics. Usually these are condensers, so they're quite sensitive, but they give you a very high quality reproduction. I picked up a Samson C01U, specs here, used for $70CDN a while back, and it gives great results. The nice thing about these is that you don't need a separate interface and the mic does all the digital conversion itself so you still get the benefits of an external interface. The downside is that if you want to plug your guitar or some other audio source into the interface as well as a mic, you don't have that option. But I can vouch for the results: very good quality and simple to carry/use. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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