No tone on my Epi G400!

[i Can Tuna Guitar]

And wire

[jerrymac]

And wire

 

They don't include the wire???

[DMC59]

Wow! I appreciate everyone's input! I am going for the GuitarFetish Epi electronics upgrade kit. I have to allow for shipping time, so the soonest I'll get to it is a week from now. I'd like to confirm with the forum members that my shopping list isn't missing anything. By the way, the last time I soldered anything was many years ago for an odd job in the house so I'll be internet searching regarding soldering technique -- I think I'll do okay.

Anyway, the list:

 

GF Epi electonics upgrade kit

Soldering iron (25W +) with chisel tip (GF has one or may buy locally)

Cheap ohm meter

Rosin glux

Guitar Solder (60/40) sold on GF (should I use rosin flux with this?)

Desoldering braid

Additional wiring not included with the kit.

 

I am conisiderng ALL suggestions on what else I need! Do I need any wires that wouldn't be in the upgrade kit?

 

Thanks everyone & I'll update after I get into it.

[i Can Tuna Guitar]

My upgrade kit came with no wire at all. I bought a few feet of 26-gauge hookup wire from a local guitar store/repair shop for a buck. The local Radio Shack didn't have wire that skinny. And you really do need the skinny wire to fit onto those teeny posts. GF sells wire, too. Plain, uninsulated solid wire, if you can find a little piece, is nice for grounds.

 

These work fine for light hobby work. If you can find one locally, good. But if not....

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-DT830B-Palm-Size-Digital-Multimeter-USA-Seller-/230506140326?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35ab3c92a6#ht_538wt_655

[Whitmore Willy]

Might interest you...there are plenty of videos out there. This one covers a lot of basics.

 

I like 60/40 rosin core solder. Never needed rosin glux (flux?) with it.

.032 diameter is my personal choice but that's just me.

On a new tip...Don't forget to tin it.

 

You Might want to practice a little on some cheep tin.

 

Also, you might want stranded wire as it is easier to work with.

Final thought...If soldering on back of pots, set them to 0.

 

Willy

[mbrooks0711]

As far as wires go, those skinny 26 gauge are the way to go. I bought a pack of 24 gauge from the local radio shack for a few dollars. DMC you are making the smart decision here. I faced a similar problem a few years back when I started to really love playing guitar. Volume pot went bad, so I took it to my local shop and asked them how much to replace it. They said $45! So i bought all the stuff and taught myself. It cost me $20 for everything at first and now everything else is just cost for parts. It will also make you VERY popular with any guitar buddies you have when their pots start getting scratching or a wire gets disconnected. You can also buy guitars that are "broken" from local pawn shops who don't know what they're talking about. On more than one occasion I've bought a guitar for $25-$40, put in $4 worth of parts and sold it for $120+. Not a bad skill to have at all. Just stick with it, get some material that won't melt when it touches solder and protect your guitars finish.

[DMC59]

Thanks mrbrooks0711, Whitmore Willy & i Can Tuna Guitar -- all great advice & much appreciated. I'm thinking along the lines of what you said mrbrooks. I'm handy enough to learn all this and also this is a way I can afford a Strat or Tele as well-- or maybe a different Epi. Of course the bigger priority is learning to play! Though as a divorced dad with two daughters and student loans, I wouldn't mind the occasional sale of a "fix-it" project.

[mbrooks0711]

Yeah, you won't make a killing doing it by any means. But the ones that come to mind for me are a $50 Epi that I sold for $125, a $140 Mexican Strat I sold for $250, and right now I've got an LTD H-100 for $80 that will probably sell for $150 or so. But hey if it takes 20 minutes of work and turns itself into gas money, I'll keep on doing it.

[animalfarm]

Lots of great advice!

 

mbrooks is right - I love those "broken guitar" ads. I bought a

"Cracked Neck" LP Special II for $25, turned out to just be the paint on the neck.

I refinished it for fun/practice, then sold it for $100.00 on Craigslist.

(Already had all the refinishing goodies in the garage from previous projects).

 

Doesn't happen ALL the time, but I'm always looking for the next project.

 

SELLER: "Guitar doesn't work, no sound".

ME: "You're Right! Gosh, MAYBE I can fix it, sure HOPE so..." (while I'm thinking

about the spare parts in my Git Toolbox and smiling inside).

[DMC59]

Yeah, you won't make a killing doing it by any means. But the ones that come to mind for me are a $50 Epi that I sold for $125, a $140 Mexican Strat I sold for $250, and right now I've got an LTD H-100 for $80 that will probably sell for $150 or so. But hey if it takes 20 minutes of work and turns itself into gas money, I'll keep on doing it.

 

There ya go!

[DMC59]

Hey guys -- I was just looking at StewMac's Epi electronics upgrade kit -- http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Supplies:_Wiring_kits/Wiring_Kit_for_SG.html -- and tho it is around $12.00 more, it includes wire and I am wondering if it's any better in other respects. Thanks!

[audiomitch]

Lots of great advice!

 

mbrooks is right - I love those "broken guitar" ads. I bought a

"Cracked Neck" LP Special II for $25, turned out to just be the paint on the neck.

I refinished it for fun/practice, then sold it for $100.00 on Craigslist.

(Already had all the refinishing goodies in the garage from previous projects).

 

Doesn't happen ALL the time, but I'm always looking for the next project.

 

SELLER: "Guitar doesn't work, no sound".

ME: "You're Right! Gosh, MAYBE I can fix it, sure HOPE so..." (while I'm thinking

about the spare parts in my Git Toolbox and smiling inside).

 

You're a gear flipper! I'll do the same thing sometimes, but most of the time I'm just going through gear looking for pearls.

[KX36]

To correct the correction:

 

Neither is right or wrong, it's a matter of preference. The only reason I originally mentioned it was because I suspected that the OP felt that there was little change in the tone control until the end. When he said the tech suggested 1M pots, I was telling the OP that it would be more likely a taper issue than a value issue, and that changing the taper on the tone controls (either way) might suit him better. But when the OP mentioned in a later post that there was no change at all, it became evident that it wasn't a taper problem but rather a wiring issue.

 

While Gibson now uses 300K linear taper parts for most of their current models, they did use 500K audio tapers in the past. I believe they now use 500K Audios on the Historic models to be more accurate, although they did use 300K Linears for a while. Plus I've heard that the Gibson Audio taper pots more linear than the generic Audio taper pots, kind of a hybrid so to speak.

 

There should be no linear taper pots in tone controls under any circumstances. The effect would be to have all the adjustment at tone between 0 and 2 unless the volume was so low that you couldn't hear it any way. One of my pet peevs is people regurgitating a totally incorrect pseudoscientific explanation of why volume should be log and tone should be linear.

 

In reality; tone should ALWAYS be log; and volume can be either, up to preference, but linear is the right starting place as it will give a smoother curve throughout more of the tone pot's range; log volume is only for people who leave their tone control at 10 and don't touch it, because as you lower the tone control, all the volume control shifts to the top end of the knob.

[KX36]

On a new tip...Don't forget to tin it.

 

Also, you might want stranded wire as it is easier to work with.

 

Willy

 

+1 on both of these. Avoid solid core wire in anything that is likely to need to move at all between soldering and using. Solid core is good for working on circuit boards where the two points on the board are not going to move from each other, but any floating components like those in a guitar should be connected by stranded core, solid core just breaks after a couple of bends.

 

When I made my stompbox, I had loads of problems because I used too much solid core wire because it's what I had to hand. I tried to be sneaky and connect the 1/4" jacks, pots and switches to the board with solid core, they wouldn't move much once the lid was on, right? Well the core kept on breaking at one point or other while I was trying to get the lid on. Should have taken the effort to drive down to Maplin, but laziness was my undoing.

 

Also definately keep your soldering iron tips well tinned especially from the outset, I've ruined a few tips by not tinning enough when they were new.

 

All this 60/40 stuff seems so archaeic to us Europeans, we don't use lead in most of our solder, it's a health hazard.

 

If you're buying "Guitar solder" that says it's 60/40, you're probably just getting ripped off for standard 60/40 you could buy at the shop down the road for less.

[jerrymac]

There should be no linear taper pots in tone controls under any circumstances. The effect would be to have all the adjustment at tone between 0 and 2 unless the volume was so low that you couldn't hear it any way. One of my pet peevs is people regurgitating a totally incorrect pseudoscientific explanation of why volume should be log and tone should be linear.

 

In reality; tone should ALWAYS be log; and volume can be either, up to preference, but linear is the right starting place as it will give a smoother curve throughout more of the tone pot's range; log volume is only for people who leave their tone control at 10 and don't touch it, because as you lower the tone control, all the volume control shifts to the top end of the knob.

 

Maybe if I type slower you'll understand what I'm saying. When I brought up the issue of the taper of the tone pots, I was suggesting that he might be using linear instead of audio, hence no change throughout the range until the end. That's your position, we agree. I've used all Audio Taper pots since I wired my first guitar in 1965. But you seem to keep arguing the point with me, you can't accept YES as an answer.

 

Where I differ with you is your insistence that everyone do it your way. You make a good argument, and I agree with you. But if somebody feels linear taper works better for them, that's fine by me. Everybody has the right to be wrong...

[DMC59]

Hi forum members - well, after calling Stew Mac's customer service, I feel better about their (new) SG wiring upgrade kit for my Epi SG 400. However, after reading through Dan Erlewine's book at my local Barnes & Noble, I am back to feeling intimidated about the job. Keep in mind I own pretty much NONE of the tools for the job -- I live in a one bedroom apartment with a pathetic tool box and power drill -- so this means spending about $100 dollars for this project and I am on a very tight budget. Child support, student loans, yada, yada, yada. I could be more interested in this down the road on a 2nd (project guitar), not my only guitar. I am seriously considering going to my GC here in Minnesota (the guitar was purchased used from a GC in California) to see what they can do for me. Maybe a good price on a trade for a new guitar. There's a guy there that seems okay and helped us with my 15 yr old's trade. My regret is buying online and not returning it in the 30 day return period. Oh yeah, tonight I went to practice and now there is a rather loud buzzing in my amp that worsens when I touch the strings. If I touch the cable at the point of the jack, it disappears. Hopefully it's the cable.

[i Can Tuna Guitar]

I suppose if you don't have the confidence, you may decide to go in another direction. Money-wise, however, the repair is probably the cheapest way to go. Tool-wise, I suggest you borrow a soldering iron from somebody (you may never need it again). Other than that, you only need a couple of basic hand tools, like a screwdriver and a wire stripper. When I did my first guitar mod, replacing the pickups, I had a friend help me.

 

Edit: If you're generally handy - meaning you can replace a light switch, or fix a leaky faucet, you can probably rewire a guitar. Like most things I've learned in my many years of tackling DIY jobs, guitar wiring turned out to be rather simple.

 

The "loud buzzing" may also be a product of the wiring problems in the guitar.

[audiomitch]

A certain amount of buzz is normal, especially at high gain settings. An unusually high level of buzzing could be outside the guitar. Cheap cables are a common culprit.

 

Also, you probably don't need to rewire your whole guitar to fix the tone control. A competent repair guy should be able to diagnose and fix it in short order.

[brianh]

...My regret is buying online and not returning it in the 30 day return period. Oh yeah, tonight I went to practice and now there is a rather loud buzzing in my amp that worsens when I touch the strings. If I touch the cable at the point of the jack, it disappears. Hopefully it's the cable.

Don't worry, when you get the wiring sorted, you'll be glad you invested the $100. Once the kit is installed, the guitar will sound better than new, the pots, switch and jack will feel far more solid, and it should last for 20+ years with no more problems.

 

You have a short or two in that guitar, probably due to cold solder joints and that tech you went to could have fixed it in 10 minutes and sent you on your way happy for $10 - what an arrogant arse. The buzzing is further proof of this - it's a loose or disconnected ground wire.

 

BTW, I don't own a G400, but many members here have them and they are considered very solid, semi pro guitars for relatively short coinage.

[DMC59]

A certain amount of buzz is normal, especially at high gain settings. An unusually high level of buzzing could be outside the guitar. Cheap cables are a common culprit.

 

Also, you probably don't need to rewire your whole guitar to fix the tone control. A competent repair guy should be able to diagnose and fix it in short order.

Thanks for the input. The reason I was looking at replacing all the electronics (except pickups) was the "Oh well, might as well" mentality since so many people have mentioned sub par electronics in these G400s. Also, the volume is weak so I wonder about the volume pots as well. My daughter's new Squier Strat is MUCH louder at the same amp volume. The luthier mentioned the volume being weak as well - tho it is way more than sufficient in my one bedroom apartment. You know, tho the luthier was polite, I think the way he put things gives me the impression he's a bit of a gear snob because he made it clear my guitar was in fine shape to learn on and when I was ready to step up I "could sell to some kid and get my money back out of it". Why would I want to screw some kid with a guitar low on volume power and no tone? He just assumed I wouldn't keep it anyway.

[DMC59]

Don't worry, when you get the wiring sorted, you'll be glad you invested the $100. Once the kit is installed, the guitar will sound better than new, the pots, switch and jack will feel far more solid, and it should last for 20+ years with no more problems.

 

You have a short or two in that guitar, probably due to cold solder joints and that tech you went to could have fixed it in 10 minutes and sent you on your way happy for $10 - what an arrogant arse. The buzzing is further proof of this - it's a loose or disconnected ground wire.

 

BTW, I don't own a G400, but many members here have them and they are considered very solid, semi pro guitars for relatively short coinage.

I don't doubt it will be a solid guitar -- once upgraded. Since I really don't have the cash to pay for a repair and certainly can't buy a new guitar, I'll have to do it myself. Frankly, that's money I had slated for the "Learn & Master Guitar" DVD -- series since I can't afford lessons. No one really said if the GF or StewMac kit is better, so I'm choosing the StewMac -- it apparently has enough wire already and they answered my questions. I will buy a few other things from GF tho.

[i Can Tuna Guitar]

DMC, consider buying everything from one place to avoid paying two shipping charges.

 

Judging by the pictures, the StewMac pots appear to have some brass components, indicating they may be of higher quality than the Alpha pots sold by GuitarFetish.

 

You also may need new knobs to fit the new pot shafts - perhaps StewMac can advise.

 

BTW, my Mean 90-equipped Dot is noticeably louder than my Squeer Strat.

[Gunner]

DMC,

 

If cash is tight I wouldn't run right out and buy new electronics. As mentioned earlier, it seems unlikely that BOTH of your tone pots or capacitors are bad. Given that you have NO tone adjustment AND low volume, I would first look for some kind of a wiring problem (loose solder joint(s), miswiring, etc.). Check for any wires that have come loose. Try tapping the wires at each connection with the guitar plugged in, and see if you can find any crackling or noticeable changes in volume. If you can post a good closeup picture of your electronics cavity, maybe one of us can spot a problem.

 

Tom

[DMC59]

DMC,

 

If cash is tight I wouldn't run right out and buy new electronics. As mentioned earlier, it seems unlikely that BOTH of your tone pots or capacitors are bad. Given that you have NO tone adjustment AND low volume, I would first look for some kind of a wiring problem (loose solder joint(s), miswiring, etc.). Check for any wires that have come loose. Try tapping the wires at each connection with the guitar plugged in, and see if you can find any crackling or noticeable changes in volume. If you can post a good closeup picture of your electronics cavity, maybe one of us can spot a problem.

 

Tom

Hi Tom - Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera to shoot a pic of the wiring. I have looked at it several times and see no loose wires - - I must say the wiring seems more complex than some online diagrams I've looked at. The luthier thought the wiring looked okay but he really didn't poke around with it plugged in either. I won't be going back to him. Time-wise, it doesn't make sense to me to replace only one or two components. I think biting the bullet and upgrading the electronics makes sense as long as I have to buy a soldering iron (no, I don't have friends who own this stuff to borrow) and a few other odds and ends -- like that cheap multimeter in the earlier eBay link. I want it fixed the first time so I can go back to learning to play!I'm pretty detailed oriented, so I believe I can do this but not as fast as some of the other folks in the forum :) Just a second thought: could it be as simple as bad capacitors?

[DMC59]

DMC, consider buying everything from one place to avoid paying two shipping charges.

 

Judging by the pictures, the StewMac pots appear to have some brass components, indicating they may be of higher quality than the Alpha pots sold by GuitarFetish.

 

You also may need new knobs to fit the new pot shafts - perhaps StewMac can advise.

 

BTW, my Mean 90-equipped Dot is noticeably louder than my Squeer Strat.

Thanks i CTG - I did call Stew Mac last week and confirmed their new "Gibson" SG upgrade kit is actually metric, as in for an Epiphone SG. I was interested in different knobs and they told me theirs will fit the pots in the upgrade kit. StewMac's rep was really helpful -- if they are all that way I'll look forward to the association.