Fred's "Future Guitar" thread

[Riverside]

Got me thinking...

 

How long will it be (or are we there now) when guitars like Martin's "X" series with plywood necks and high-pressure laminate sides and backs become the "norm"?

 

What say y'all?

[BigKahune]

I've played them. My cousin has one of the Martins. It's nice not to have to worry about temps and humidity, but IMO they don't sound as good as those made with solid wood.

 

At some point in the future, if solid tone woods start getting scarce, we'll obviously be seeing more of them.

[ksdaddy]

I've got about 13 or 14 Ovations. Some have laminated tops,some have aluminum necks, and on a couple of them the only wood is the bridge.

 

Ain't nothin' new. Ovation's been doing it for 44 years now. And when you pull notes out of a guitar that feels and sounds good, the material doesn't mean a thing.

[Shnate McDuanus]

I don't care about the material--frankly I want a guitar to sound and feel good. If I like how it sounds and feels, then I like it. The X Series...I dunno. I haven't tried 'em.

 

As for Ovations: you know, I like the sound, but I think that the whole round-back design is the stupidest thing I've ever seen or heard about on a guitar. Not for me, nuh-uh. I can not get used to that damn round back.

[stevef]

RainSong carbon graphite?

[Riverside]

I've got about 13 or 14 Ovations. Some have laminated tops,some have aluminum necks, and on a couple of them the only wood is the bridge.

 

Ain't nothin' new. Ovation's been doing it for 44 years now. And when you pull notes out of a guitar that feels and sounds good, the material doesn't mean a thing.

 

It's not new, but it's not the norm, either.

 

I like the Ovation Ukuleles tho.

[Rocky4]

I have one of the laminate jr Martins and it sounds fine to me.

[milod]

I've got two old sorta "original" EA guitars from Ovation in the early to mid 1970s.

 

My original "legend" worked quite well and still does. That round back is a bit more difficult to hold standing but the necks are nice. OTOH, I'm considering a low-end Epi EA for more "cowboy music" things I've been asked to do the past half dozen years.

 

Then there's the Country Artist. It's a nylon EA of the same time period, early to mid 1970s. Mine had the top crack; it cost a bundle to ship it, but "O" did repair it. It doesn't quite sing as it did. I rather like the 14 frets to the body.

 

Yeah, the way we've decided certain types of trees and the ecology there are more valuable than people or anything else, I think it's inevitable we'll end up with laminates and/or alternative materials. In an EA, I think that's possible to cover with good design and electronics; I think far less so on a full acoustic. For electrics... I think it's not that big a deal - and it's likely to come so slowly that it'll be a generation of pickers accepting it.

 

Oh, yeah, I suppose I stepped into politics. But at one time, consider a squirrel could in theory travel from the Mississippi to the Atlantic without touching ground - and England was a heavily forested land.

 

Read Caesar to see "Gaul" was similarly heavily forested with iron-age tribal folks cutting down trees for ag purposes a bit better than their neolithic ancestors had done and... <grin>

 

We're telling other places they can't develop as we "Europeans" and "North Americans" so... we're in an interesting situation.

 

m

[ZenKen]

Martin's "X" series with plywood necks

 

Come on man. Tell the truth. It's not plywood it's.......... Natural Stratabond.

 

It's natural......natural......... B)

[Andre S]

I don't have the X series Martin, but what I have is the 1 series.

 

Its different in that, it uses Solid wood for the body and a stratabond neck.

 

It sounds great, nice, loud and chimey....the whole guitar's body vibrates like crazy when you strum......Of course I've never had a Gibson acoustic to try it against.....but I would bet it would hold up nicely.

[brundaddy]

Starting to run low on wood, y'all. I hear ya Milo, 'Do as we say not as we have done -- no deforestation, genocide, or coal-burning' ...

 

Personally I have always disliked the thin, plasticky tone out of Ovations. To each their own. I bet they'll develop some good sounding laminates. They'll have to.

[milod]

Well...

 

I have two Ovations from the mid 1970s, both their first generation EA, one steel, one nylon. The sound isn't all that bad. It's not boomy. In a sense I see them as good EA, medium acoustic only.

 

I used them a lot in the '70s to back up "old time" fiddlers and then for some country stuff in saloons. Didn't have the Martin sound, but as I've said, I don't care for Martin necks. They do project, though.

 

Actually I think the "let's save the wood and let the oogaboogas remain third worlders" thing in ways is paternalistic to the ultimate degree. But then, that's political, I s'pose. Korea after the 1950s war was almost entirely deforested in a lotta areas and whole villages would climb those hillsides in the later 50s and 60s and even 70s to plant trees. Guess what: Their economy did special things because of cultural will to succeed. Without that will, stuff doesn't happen.

 

Anyway I question that laminates will do much more as wood laminates than the Ovation fiberglass or whatever. There has to be a plastic of some sort that will have a higher degree of emulation of sounds from quality tonewood instruments. We just ain't found it yet because ... the will ain't quite been there yet.

 

m

[NeoConMan]

Knew lotsa people with Ovations since the late seventies.

 

I've had two myself over the years - bought 'em dirt cheap both times, and didn't feel they were worth it.

Waited forever to find a sucker - er, buyer and managed to get out of them with minimal monetary loss.

 

If the prices get scarier on solid wood acoustics as laminates become more common, I'm okay with that.

But I've noticed solid Spruce tops getting onto cheaper and cheaper acoustics in the last five years.

 

Even Chinese ones.

[PartsPvt]

I had one of these about 20 years ago..played very nice..wish I kept it.

 

Thought this was the future..

 

Built a few T-6 aluminum neck Precision fretless basses..

 

Aluminum neck and polished board done string bass style fretless..

 

AH..the future..just never seems to get here..

[milod]

Thing with the early Ovation EA guitars is that they were about the first that really were EA. My 14-fret Country Artist still is very good for what it does. The old Electric Legend pretty much ditto with the big "bowl."

 

Problem with Ovations is they amplified acoustically a bit more of the high end "fuzz" of string sound. But - and this was important to me then as now, they are a bit "safer" hauling around to gigs at 0 to -40F temperatures and taking a bit of a back-country beating.

 

I like the necks, btw, and at 35+ years of age, those remain excellent.

 

Neo - you're absolutely correct on the value dropping like a rock. But again, I spent the cash in the 70s because they were the first to do what I felt I hadda have a guitar do. Now, as I've said, 35 years later, they're still in good playing shape and I'd gig with either one.

 

As for the sound - I think it's kinda like a Tele. You like it or you don't, but nobody claims it's a traditional acoustic sound amplified - and did back when it came out.

 

I think Ovation still is in business because there's a decent working sound, the EAs work well and the guitars I've had lasted rather well for their age.

 

Are they in the same class of instrument as Gibson? No, but largely because they're a different type of instrument built to a different concept, just as "F" guitars are a different concept that doesn't really sound "guitary," but still has a real place in contemporary music.

 

But even the Tele is shaped like a "real" guitar, more or less. Ditto most successful designs. (Emphasis on the "more or less.") Kinda like rifles, some of the fancier engineering stuff may work, and work well, but rifle buyers basically like "real" rifles. The Savage bolt is kinda like the Ovation in that it's ugly but shoots pretty well outa the box.

 

Pistols, parenthetically, don't make a good parallel because they don't always go to traditionalists such as most riflemen tend to be.

 

Even with rifles, you have the non-trad shapes like modern semi-auto designs like the Stoner and Kalashnikov. To me the traditional bolt actions and updates are like Gibsons; the gas-operated autos of military design are more like Fenders. Lever and pump rifles are somewhere in between, especially such as the BLR and Remington pump rifles.

 

m