Top 50 Revolutionary Artist?

[RobinTheHood]

Why do you guys bother to look at these lists.

 

Nobody EVER agrees with em...move along now....nothing to see here.

 

I know better than to read internet lists - unless I'm looking for some faux outrage. Not today. Its hump day. You cant get outraged on hump day.

[grampa]

You want revolutionary, how about Charles Ives or John Cage.

[damian]

Makes one wonder, WHO puts these lists, together???

 

CB

 

 

Moderaters do;

[zigzag]

You want revolutionary, how about Charles Ives or John Cage.

 

John Cage made the list. I'd add Danny Gatton, Merle Travis, Waylon Jennings (even though I don't care much for his music), Jelly Roll Morton, Scott Joplin, Duke Ellington, and Bessie Smith, and maybe Jaco Pastorius.

[milod]

I guess I appreciate Bill Monroe at the top of the list for a cupla reasons even though I haven't done much of that particular sort of music in decades.

 

Main reason? It was, as it was described by some in the '60s, "folk music with overdrive."

 

In a sense everything else most of us here like to play is an extension of that concept. Blues, rock, country - it's in ways folk music with overdrive.

 

Also it really promoted an emphasis on stringed instruments that was less popular through the swing era.

 

Bob Wills and Texas Swing also are, to me, part of the modern rock, blues and country scene because they were among the first to really emphasize an electric guitar "thing" in a small combo environment.

 

Again, those two seem "off" when we're talking about today's "metal" and whatever, but their influence helped create the environment - the trunk of the tree - that led this direction.

 

Almost all the ad hoc blues combos of the recording era could also be included - but we have to remember too that a lotta "urban blues" through the 40s was heavy on a swing-style instrumentation as opposed to "string band" sorta thing.

 

Yeah, that's all heavy on generalization, but...

 

EDIT - Got to thinkin' too - although Monroe etc., that I mention here may or may not have used electric guitars, there was a real need for amplification at least through a PA to make it work. So they're really significant in bringing string instrument combo music to larger venues.

 

m

[zigzag]

Nice shot, m, I forgot Bob Wills.

[jaxson50]

I know who Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five were and I would also add Afrika Bambaataa and SoulSonic Force or maybe Public Enemy (the Bomb Squad put down some sick beats). And yes, the Stooges have influenced me greatly.

 

I would replace Nirvana with Sonic Youth. Without Sonic Youth there would be no Nirvana or Muddy Honey or Dinosaur Jr. or...

Albrighty then..I have been listening to "rock" and "pop" since 1956. I have never heard of Sonic youth, Grand Master the Furious Five, Afrika Bambaataa although I do know who Public Enemy was, and they didn't revolutionize rock, they are gangster rap and by now most of the members have either been shot or are in prison for shooting someone or have died from overdoses.

Nirvana? Sure put them on the list...I have never hear Muddy Honey but I have been called a dinosaur...but the list is about artist who were "revolutionary" so of course it will be a looser. If you want to say that with out this group there would be not "that" group, then lets go down the list......

Carl Perkins, The Animals, Roy Orbison, The Band, The Beatles, The Four Tops, The Four Season's, The Kingston Trio, The Mama's and the Papas, The Byrds, The Young Rascals, The Lovin Spoonful, The Who, Pink Floyd, Traffic, Cream, Blind Faith, Santana, Weather Report, Bo Diddley, Muddy Waters, Mike Bloomfield, Duane Eddy, The Yard Birds, The Blues Breakers, Sam The Sham and the Pharos, Three Dog Night, The Doobie Brothers, The Eagles, Linda Rhonstade, Emma Lou Harris, Tina Turner, Ike Turner, Johnny Winters, Edgar Winters (honorable mention for their parents because with out them there would be no Johnny or Edgar)...The list of who came before whom is endless...

So lets just get to the bottom line...............

It all started with.................................insert drum roll here..................

The Maple Leaf Rag.

[jaxson50]

The problem with these lists are they are never written objectively. It sounds like more of a list of bands that the writer liked or was influenced by.

 

DRTFL

And they only polled teenagers

[milod]

Jax...

 

Yeah... Joplin was the best and put stuff on paper - and piano rolls - among the earliest. But he was in ways reflecting "whorehouse" music of the era at a higher level.

 

The reason I'd go for a lotta early "country" sorts of stuff is the emphasis on "string band" that ended up more or less in rock combos. It's funny how the "gypsy" string bands took Django the same direction in Europe and... <grin>

 

m

[RobinTheHood]

And they only polled teenagers

 

Well, there you go. Teenagers dont know squat. I should know. I used to be one.

 

Haha! Sorry teenies...I'm just joshin' ya! :unsure:

[zigzag]

Yeah... Joplin was the best and put stuff on paper - and piano rolls - among the earliest. But he was in ways reflecting "whorehouse" music of the era at a higher level.

 

Absolutely correct, however, he brought ragtime as a sub-genre of jazz into popularity during the beginnings of "jazz" proper.

[jaxson50]

Jax...

 

Yeah... Joplin was the best and put stuff on paper - and piano rolls - among the earliest. But he was in ways reflecting "whorehouse" music of the era at a higher level.

 

The reason I'd go for a lotta early "country" sorts of stuff is the emphasis on "string band" that ended up more or less in rock combos. It's funny how the "gypsy" string bands took Django the same direction in Europe and... <grin>

 

m

In short, there is nothing new under the sun...one of my Jazz Improv teachers at the U of U told us that between Bach and Beethoven it's all been done before. I guess that is why most music fads and fashion fads for that matter seem so original to those under 30...<grin>

[zigzag]

In short, there is nothing new under the sun...one of my Jazz Improv teachers at the U of U told us that between Bach and Beethoven it's all been done before. I guess that is why most music fads and fashion fads for that matter seem so original to those under 30...<grin>

 

I was learning a Chick Corea song (Got a Match) on guitar, and it didn't take much to make it sound like a Bach toccata.

[grampa]

Stephen Foster in the 1860's or so pretty much invented "popular" music.

[milod]

Jax...

 

Mostly I agree... although looking at it more as a guitar picker/performer than general musician...

 

The reason I was looking at outfits like Monroe, Carter Family and later on Bob Wills has to do with one factor I think "we" tend to overlook: The huge break in music that came with amplification.

 

I did a history piece recently about the local "big" rodeo that included a note on ... I think it was '26 or '27 ... when we had the U.S. president here and ... the first public address system used in the whole @#$%@ region for any kind of event. It came via train complete to technicians to operate it.

 

That was a huge change as this stuff started to shrink along with price tags, speakers began to improve and shrink... and bands started to use them. It changed instrumentation, vocals... everything. It made talking movies and "musicals" possible. It made radio worth listening to and the juke box as well.

 

And even that wasn't in ways as some of the radical changes brought by the phonograph that brought us the archtop Gibson even before electronic amplification of the darned phonograph.

 

EDIT: RE Stephen Foster and others in a burst of musical activity after mid 1860... Hey, technology again. Major publishing houses printing "sheet music" in large editions and the train to take them to stores while still "new."

 

m

[jaxson50]

Stephen Foster in the 1860's or so pretty much invented "popular" music.

And he is quoted as saying he was inspired by his travels through the south listening to the work songs of the slaves.

[EVOL!]

Albrighty then..I have been listening to "rock" and "pop" since 1956. I have never heard of Sonic youth, Grand Master the Furious Five, Afrika Bambaataa although I do know who Public Enemy was, and they didn't revolutionize rock, they are gangster rap and by now most of the members have either been shot or are in prison for shooting someone or have died from overdoses.

Nirvana? Sure put them on the list...I have never hear Muddy Honey but I have been called a dinosaur...but the list is about artist who were "revolutionary" so of course it will be a looser. If you want to say that with out this group there would be not "that" group, then lets go down the list......

 

I don't even know where to start. First off, artists like Grand Master Flash and Afrika Bambaataa were the pioneers of hip hop and about as gangster rap as Bob Dylan. Public Enemy was one of the first political hip hop artists and their production team The Bomb Squad took sampling and beat building to a whole new level. Trust me, these three were revolutionary. Check out Public Enemy's "Bring the Noise" and listen to the lyrics. So ahead of it's time in 1988.

 

Sonic Youth started in the early eighties, coming out of New York's No Wave scene and playing in Glenn Branca's guitar orchestra. They took noisy, oddly tuned guitars, feedback, eighties & nineties counter culture, and progressive art and merged them into something more than just music. They also brought the punk DIY ethic to pop sensibility and carried that to a major label, not unlike other eighties bands like Hüster Dü. They paved the way for other noisy guitar bands like Nirvana, Mud Honey, and Dinosaur Jr. If you aren't wise to these bands get on YouTube and get wise, brother.

[RobinTheHood]

Check out Public Enemy's "Bring the Noise" and listen to the lyrics. So ahead of it's time in 1988.

 

Absolutely. Also, Public Enemy's "Bring the Noise" (ala Anthrax) and Run DMC/Aerosmith's "Walk this Way" were also the first to fuse rap and rock. Much of the modern rock and metal vocal styles are based off of the rock/rap fusion of the late 80's - early 90's.

[milod]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Hall_%28song%29

 

"I hate you one and all, you're a bunch of #uckers all, #od #amn your eyes..."

 

Dates back to the 1700s that can be traced.

 

Ain't much new, folks, even if one wishes it to be so.

 

Hmmmm. Ain't sung that one in public since the '60s, though, myself. Note it's been picked up by "popular" groups and singers for centuries, literally.

 

m

[charlie brown]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Hall_%28song%29

 

"I hate you one and all, you're a bunch of #uckers all, #od #amn your eyes..."

 

Dates back to the 1700s that can be traced.

 

Ain't much new, folks, even if one wishes it to be so.

 

Hmmmm. Ain't sung that one in public since the '60s, though, myself. Note it's been picked up by "popular" groups and singers for centuries, literally.

 

m

 

 

Yeah, and pop music has been "borrowing" melodies, from "Classical" for a long time, as well. ;>)

 

CB

[milod]

No kidding CB...

 

Last summer I was working with a Russian-trained pro musician who moved some Schubert into a piece she was doing as a medly sorta thing.

 

Me, I recognized it first as an old fiddle tune I've known for years.

 

Orbison's "A love so beautiful" sounds as if it came out of Verdi.

 

.... and in some more recent stuff, a... naaah, <chortle> won't go there.

 

m

[grampa]

Borrowed melodies is what a lot of the DJ hip-hop sampling is.

[jaxson50]

I don't even know where to start. First off, artists like Grand Master Flash and Afrika Bambaataa were the pioneers of hip hop and about as gangster rap as Bob Dylan. Public Enemy was one of the first political hip hop artists and their production team The Bomb Squad took sampling and beat building to a whole new level. Trust me, these three were revolutionary. Check out Public Enemy's "Bring the Noise" and listen to the lyrics. So ahead of it's time in 1988.

 

Sonic Youth started in the early eighties, coming out of New York's No Wave scene and playing in Glenn Branca's guitar orchestra. They took noisy, oddly tuned guitars, feedback, eighties & nineties counter culture, and progressive art and merged them into something more than just music. They also brought the punk DIY ethic to pop sensibility and carried that to a major label, not unlike other eighties bands like Hüster Dü. They paved the way for other noisy guitar bands like Nirvana, Mud Honey, and Dinosaur Jr. If you aren't wise to these bands get on YouTube and get wise, brother.

I might check them out, I admit I don't know much about rap or for that matter heavy metal, as soon as I hear someone screaming in anger, or hear anything that resembles rap I move on.

There is a big difference between innovative and revolutionary...there are many innovative artist, there are very few artist that are revolutionary..

[milod]

I think there's really nothing that much different in youth angst music and lyric in such centuries that we might document. The differences tend to be in the tunes or lack thereof that might carry the lyric.

 

The interesting thing to me is that the lyrics that last have a tendency to be attached to "whistle-able" tunes that become part of the folk culture almost immediately and are retained in cultural memory for a long time as opposed to being heard and forgotten by the very generation that created them.

 

So... If "old people," at least among musicians, don't seem sufficiently sympathetic to certain sorts of music, it's not so much that they hate the protest or even dislike the technical style of the music but... they've probably been there and it's a matter of switching focus from protest to something more melodic.

 

I've noted here before that it seems whether a folkie, rocker or country sort, even a bluegrass sort, after a certain point in age the old "standards" of the general culture tend to come to the fore.

 

Frankly I think that's an inevitable part of musicians as adults having a bit of changing roles. For example some of the wildest protester types I've known from my own youth nowadays seem awfully "staid and conservative" in current lifestyle even though they do whatever possible to ensure they are identified with the politics of their youth. For example I know one lady my age who refuses to wear penny loafers since that's identified with "right wing" people. Meanwhile others my age wear veterans organization caps.

 

So there's Joan Baez singing a classic torch song from the 1950s and Rod Stewart doing standards and...

 

It's part of life. Subcultures of music will rise and fall; but it seems to me from a bit of study of pop music from around 1865 up to now, the determining factor of the music is a tune that can be hummed and a lyric that can be relatively easily memorized.

 

E.g., "Come mothers and fathers throughout the land, and don't criticize what you can't understand; your sons and your daughters are beyond your command, your old ways are rapidly fading..."

 

Both in "protest rock" and "protest folk," I did some pretty harsh stuff myself - until I was around 25.

 

Yup. But the same would have been the call of friends of Alexander of Macedonia in their youth - yet certainly not as their hair turned gray...

 

m

[jaxson50]

I agree with you Milod, I also believe we tend to identify with the music that is popular during our formative years up till around the time we decide to grow up and get a job, buy a home, start a family..It is rather rare for a busy parent and provider to do double duty as a angry head banger or rowdy rap artist trying to take "da Man down", or wanting to vent...

Like wise those who made a living protesting this or that in the 60's either changed to love songs or writing commercial jingles...or became real estate agents and stock brokers..