Sancho Panza Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 So, I was looking at some records today and came across The Hollies - Evolution (great album by the way!) and I was immediately stucked by the cover! I'm not a photo expert and I don't know my way in Photoshop, at all, but who did the photographer produced the image? I read that he used plastic, but can one produce the same effect in photoshop, or any other photo-like programs? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 So surely you're not asking if the guy used Photoshop or something like it in 1967 to create that album cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 You should be able to do something like in photoshop by using layers and playing with the transparencies. However, I bet he did the original a little different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingarmadillo Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Back then it most likely was done with multiple exposures and animation cell overlays or transparencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Yeah, in the olden days one could do quite a bit in a "wet darkroom" if one took the time. For example, I used to do "unsharp masks" and very few folks even knew what they were until PhotoShop came out and folks were going digital. You could do 'most anything. It just took time and a lot of trial and error. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Yeah, in the olden days one could do quite a bit in a "wet darkroom" if one took the time. For example, I used to do "unsharp masks" and very few folks even knew what they were until PhotoShop came out and folks were going digital. You could do 'most anything. It just took time and a lot of trial and error. m Milod, Was that back when you still had to stick your head under the blanket and the big explosive and smoky poof of the flash would go off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Andy... No, but I do have a friend who still does wet plate. I did start with flashbulbs. My first published color shot was with an old Graphic with the swings and tilts. <grin> m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blues335 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 That is why people spend 3 years in university studying graphic design, so "anyone" can get a couple of photos and photoshop and get the same aesthetic thang going on......... same principle as I have word processor therefore I can write a novel...... Good graphic design does not spring from computers, cameras, programs.....it springs from talented graphic designers...... Imagine having a 59 and a Dumble and no chops........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 You should be able to do something like in photoshop by using layers and playing with the transparencies. However, I bet he did the original a little different Yes. Generally speaking it's always best to get as much done before the image goes to post-prod. than afterwards. As far as the image of the stretched polythene sheet goes; It would be so much easier to do it for real ('in camera') than try to replicate it in Photoshop. The polythene and the band would appear to be two separate images. The album cover pictured above appears to be a montage - a sandwich if you like - of four photographic images; the one of the band; the one of the stretched polythene; the one of the 'Liberty'-style wallpaper; the coloured swirly stuff (and the logotype as a fifth layer, of course). I'd like to see it 'in the flesh' to give a detailed description of how, exactly, I think it was produced but that's the bare bones of it. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 So surely you're not asking if the guy used Photoshop or something like it in 1967 to create that album cover? No. How stupid do I look? .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thanks for the answers! I was ju curious how he did it, and if one could replicate it in photoshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Yes. Generally speaking it's always best to get as much done before the image goes to post-prod. than afterwards. As far as the image of the stretched polythene sheet goes; It would be so much easier to do it for real ('in camera') than try to replicate it in Photoshop. The polythene and the band would appear to be two separate images. The album cover pictured above appears to be a montage - a sandwich if you like - of four photographic images; the one of the band; the one of the stretched polythene; the one of the 'Liberty'-style wallpaper; the coloured swirly stuff (and the logotype as a fifth layer, of course). I'd like to see it 'in the flesh' to give a detailed description of how, exactly, I think it was produced but that's the bare bones of it. P. I found an interview with the photographer; "To begin the process, I listened to the music that they were recording and got an image of them pushing through a membrane into ‘the Psychedelic world’. I took a studio shot of them pushing out their hands and the lead singer pointing through clear plastic. Over this, I superimposed a shot of William Morris ‘Art Nuevo’ wallpaper with an illustration and some ‘Love’ lettering drawn by my girlfriend, Anke." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Wow! Interesting that you could actually find an interview with the photographer discussing his shot! Very Cool! As far as the image goes, and any attempt you may make to replicate it goes, I notice he says... " I took a studio shot of them pushing out their hands and the lead singer pointing through clear plastic. " My interpretation of that statement is still that the polythene is a second shot. If you look closely at the image there appears to be a distinct rectangle where the poly stress can be seen. Also the finger "pointing through clear plastic" does not line up with the centre of the stress; rather it's about 1/2" higher. The image below shows what I think is the full extent of the poly sheet image; I could, of course, be very wrong indeed! LOL! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Excellent and informative posts.... A moment of nostalgia for the ground-breaking artwork on Vinyl LP covers Things seemed to get really good around '65-'66 with Psychedelia catching the mass imagination And the ability of a mere album cover to resonate deeply in the public subconscious...ie Sgt Pepper V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Wow! Interesting that you could actually find an interview with the photographer discussing his shot! Very Cool! As far as the image goes, and any attempt you may make to replicate it goes, I notice he says... " I took a studio shot of them pushing out their hands and the lead singer pointing through clear plastic. " My interpretation of that statement is still that the polythene is a second shot. If you look closely at the image there appears to be a distinct rectangle where the poly stress can be seen. Also the finger "pointing through clear plastic" does not line up with the centre of the stress; rather it's about 1/2" higher. The image below shows what I think is the full extent of the poly sheet image; I could, of course, be very wrong indeed! LOL! P. Haha, I really don't think that you're wrong! Amazing how you actually can see the different layers. So, let's say if I want to replicate this I would: 1. Take a normal picture. 2. Polythene shot, that's the problem! I don't know how to make that shot. 3 & 4. Are just layers which you do afterwards on the computer. Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Excellent and informative posts.... A moment of nostalgia for the ground-breaking artwork on Vinyl LP covers Things seemed to get really good around '65-'66 with Psychedelia catching the mass imagination And the ability of a mere album cover to resonate deeply in the public subconscious...ie Sgt Pepper V Oh yes! Album covers from the mid-to-late 60s are really about catching the music, not like nowdays, where the cover has nothing to do with the music at all, just standing around a bunch of nice cars and some money around you. That sells. Like you said though; Sgt. Pepper is a nice cover! I also like Their Satanic Majesties Request, hope that I'll one day could get my hands on the 3D cover. Those are more studio shotcovers, I like simple covers too, example: The Byrds - Fifth Dimension, Elmer Gantry's Velvet Opera, Harumi, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Great thread. Don't forget "Machine Head". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Haha, I really don't think that you're wrong! Amazing how you actually can see the different layers. So, let's say if I want to replicate this I would: 1. Take a normal picture. 2. Polythene shot, that's the problem! I don't know how to make that shot. 3 & 4. Are just layers which you do afterwards on the computer. Correct? Yes. The following is me typing as I'm thinking so bear with me and don't blame me if it doesn't work!....lol! If I was asked to do the 'Polythene shot' I would choose a dark background - such as black velvet - into which, from the rear, I'd poke something like a piece of dowelling. Something like a rectangle of wood lying flat on something like a 'Workmate' (do you have those things?) with the rod pointing skywards. The workmate allows the rod to be put higher or lower and this could be useful as it would be an advantage if the height of the rod could be adjusted so as to attain the best degree of 'folding'. I'd then tape down, firmly, a sheet of poly over this projection so that there were stress-folds going towards each corner. Point a light the poly (the example on the cover shown has been side-lit from the 'top'-side of the image). Doing this you would have a series of white areas where the light has 'caught' (been reflected in) the poly and jet-black where the camera is looking-through the poly into the velvet. I'd then take these layers and make the black areas completely transparent in Photoshop and I'd reduce the opacity of 'white' area so it, too, becomes translucent but still very visible. (Another way would be to 'rub-through' the areas you want semi-transparent.) Save everything as layers and play around to your hearts content! Good luck and, if you do try it out, keep us posted! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Yes. The following is me typing as I'm thinking so bear with me and don't blame me if it doesn't work!....lol! If I was asked to do the 'Polythene shot' I would choose a dark background - such as black velvet - into which, from the rear, I'd poke something like a piece of dowelling. Something like a rectangle of wood lying flat on something like a 'Workmate' (do you have those things?) with the rod pointing skywards. The workmate allows the rod to be put higher or lower and this could be useful as it would be an advantage if the height of the rod could be adjusted so as to attain the best degree of 'folding'. I'd then tape down, firmly, a sheet of poly over this projection so that there were stress-folds going towards each corner. Point a light the poly (the example on the cover shown has been side-lit from the 'top'-side of the image). Doing this you would have a series of white areas where the light has 'caught' (been reflected in) the poly and jet-black where the camera is looking-through the poly into the velvet. I'd then take these layers and make the black areas completely transparent in Photoshop and I'd reduce the opacity of 'white' area so it, too, becomes translucent but still very visible. (Another way would be to 'rub-through' the areas you want semi-transparent.) Save everything as layers and play around to your hearts content! Good luck and, if you do try it out, keep us posted! P. Thanks for the detailed information! I will try to make something, though I haven't got photoshop OR even a camera! Haha, but you seem to know your war round pictures, photoshop or no photoshop. English isn't my primary language (maybe you can tell from my typing), but I understood most things! Will try that, AND, upload the picture, once it's ready! :D Sure YOU wasn't the guy who designed the cover? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Almost forgot one of the best covers! (In my opinion) : Kaleidoscope - Tangerine Dream I read a interview with the singer and he said that they showed up to the photoshot and the photographer had decorated a whole room with aluminium foil to get the effect of a kaleidoscope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 1967 ???? If memory serves me right, the technique was known as the " ORANGE SUNSHINE " technique.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingarmadillo Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Yes. The following is me typing as I'm thinking so bear with me and don't blame me if it doesn't work!....lol! If I was asked to do the 'Polythene shot' I would choose a dark background - such as black velvet - into which, from the rear, I'd poke something like a piece of dowelling. Something like a rectangle of wood lying flat on something like a 'Workmate' (do you have those things?) with the rod pointing skywards. The workmate allows the rod to be put higher or lower and this could be useful as it would be an advantage if the height of the rod could be adjusted so as to attain the best degree of 'folding'. I'd then tape down, firmly, a sheet of poly over this projection so that there were stress-folds going towards each corner. Point a light the poly (the example on the cover shown has been side-lit from the 'top'-side of the image). Doing this you would have a series of white areas where the light has 'caught' (been reflected in) the poly and jet-black where the camera is looking-through the poly into the velvet. I'd then take these layers and make the black areas completely transparent in Photoshop and I'd reduce the opacity of 'white' area so it, too, becomes translucent but still very visible. (Another way would be to 'rub-through' the areas you want semi-transparent.) Save everything as layers and play around to your hearts content! Good luck and, if you do try it out, keep us posted! P. Too complex, just bind the poly to a piece of plexiglass, cut out a hole for the poke, put the band behind the plexi/poly, have the band member poke the poly just like he said, light it and shoot. It's just a matter of controlling the light. Put that shot on transparency, put the wallpaper on another transparency, backlight, shoot, print the result and you're ready for the paint artist to do the lettering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Too complex, just bind the poly to a piece of plexiglass, cut out a hole for the poke, put the band behind the plexi/poly, have the band member poke the poly just like he said, light it and shoot. It's just a matter of controlling the light. Put that shot on transparency, put the wallpaper on another transparency, backlight, shoot, print the result and you're ready for the paint artist to do the lettering. Well, there are many ways to skin a cat. With all due respect; the original shot was done differently. There's no doubt the poly is a separate shot. It would be interesting to try out your idea but there are a couple of stumbling blocks; Firstly, controlling the lighting would be much more difficult. Shooting it as the photographer did meant he could light the group as he wished without the compromise of having to light the poly at the same time. Also, shooting through- and lighting through and around- a sheet of perspex that size would bring it's own problems. Secondly, Shooting the poly as a separate shot gives much more control over the final image as the reprographic team could do with it as they want. Importantly it could be enlarged or reduced to whichever size worked best. It's positioning could be changed at will. If it was shot as part of the band shot there would be no chance to alter it later. I also suspect retouching out the edge from one neutral background shot would be much easier than to retouch the hole cut in a sheet of perspex with all that stuff going on. In the old days I used to know some (transparency) retouchers and, though they could work miracles, they still preferred their job to be as uncomplicated as possible... Many years ago, when I was still a photographer's assistant, I was involved in a very similar shoot involving a band and a lot of very long and quite wide strips of polythene which were draped around- and hanging from beams in- the studio. The concept relied on lighting the poly with a Polarized light source and shooting through a Polarizing filter. We had to get it all in one frame on film. It was a lighting nightmare. Believe me when I say separate shots for the band and the poly would have been the way to go. As was the case here. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Well, there are many ways to skin a cat. With all due respect; the original shot was done differently. There's no doubt the poly is a separate shot. It would be interesting to try out your idea but there are a couple of stumbling blocks; Firstly, controlling the lighting would be much more difficult. Shooting it as the photographer did meant he could light the group as he wished without the compromise of having to light the poly at the same time. Also, shooting through- and lighting through and around- a sheet of perspex that size would bring it's own problems. Secondly, Shooting the poly as a separate shot gives much more control over the final image as the reprographic team could do with it as they want. Importantly it could be enlarged or reduced to whichever size worked best. It's positioning could be changed at will. If it was shot as part of the band shot there would be no chance to alter it later. I also suspect retouching out the edge from one neutral background shot would be much easier than to retouch the hole cut in a sheet of perspex with all that stuff going on. In the old days I used to know some (transparency) retouchers and, though they could work miracles, they still preferred their job to be as uncomplicated as possible... Many years ago, when I was still a photographer's assistant, I was involved in a very similar shoot involving a band and a lot of very long and quite wide strips of polythene which were draped around- and hanging from beams in- the studio. The concept relied on lighting the poly with a Polarized light source and shooting through a Polarizing filter. We had to get it all in one frame on film. It was a lighting nightmare. Believe me when I say separate shots for the band and the poly would have been the way to go. As was the case here. P. Your knowledge is amazing. Is there any chance that you could upload that picture that you were involved with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 ...Is there any chance that you could upload that picture that you were involved with?... Unfortunately, no. First-off it wasn't my shoot (I was the assistant) so I don't have any copies of the tranny. Secondly; from what I rmember the shot was for a promo poster for an album rather than the album cover its'self. I did a Google and couldn't find it anywhere. Sorry! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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