Silenced Fred Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 How can I get this? Tubes start to break up seriously when the volume is around 4, thinking I might want it a bit later. What tubes would give me the maximum amount of clean headroom? For those that don't know, its a Sunn T50C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzboy Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 How can I get this? Tubes start to break up seriously when the volume is around 4, thinking I might want it a bit later. What tubes would give me the maximum amount of clean headroom? For those that don't know, its a Sunn T50C 50 watt amps don't have a lot of clean headroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Are you using channel 1 or channel 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 50 watt amps don't have a lot of clean headroom. I'm guessing you've never stood in front of a Fender Bassman head through a 4-12 cabinet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzboy Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I'm guessing you've never stood in front of a Fender Bassman head through a 4-12 cabinet. If you are talking about 50 watt version the answer is no I haven't. Of course Fender amps particularly the Blackface and Silver face are known for being clean sounding amps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Are you using channel 1 or channel 2? Channel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinner 13 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I'm guessing you've never stood in front of a Fender Bassman head through a 4-12 cabinet. Mmmmm yes.... So Clean, even my JR with the 13.9k Hot 90 won't break up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 You should study tubes, tube functions, tube types, etc..........lots of info on-line..........Study amp designs as well.....Pre amp and power sections as well....And yes, some tubes will give more clean headroom than others, as will different amp models and manufactures..........Your question is interesting.....50 tube watts shoud have quite a bit of clean headroom..........Maybe you need a well made clean boost pedal......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Channel 1 I'd try replacing the 12AX7 in V1 (the first preamp tube in line) with a lower gain tube - a 5751 or a 12AT7 (the 5751 has about 70% of a 12AX7's gain. The 12AT7 has about 60%). By reducing the front end drive you may get a cleaner, punchier amp. Another way to approach it is to replace the phase inverter tube, V8 with one of the lower gain tubes mentioned above. (This is the last pre-amp tube in line - located right next to the power tubes). You could even try both options above, thus lowering the pre-gain of the circuit and emphasizing the power tube section. The advantage of these adjustments in your amp is that no re-biasing is required (assuming you do not bias your own amp and require a tech to do this). The other thing to consider is power tubes which would, in your amp, require a re bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 You should study tubes, tube functions, tube types, etc..........lots of info on-line..........Study amp designs as well.....Pre amp and power sections as well....And yes, some tubes will give more clean headroom than others, as will different amp models and manufactures..........Your question is interesting.....50 tube watts shoud have quite a bit of clean headroom..........Maybe you need a well made clean boost pedal......... A clean boost will do nothing to raise the clean headroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 I'd try replacing the 12AX7 in V1 (the first preamp tube in line) with a lower gain tube - a 5751 or a 12AT7 (the 5751 has about 70% of a 12AX7's gain. The 12AT7 has about 60%). By reducing the front end drive you may get a cleaner, punchier amp. Another way to approach it is to replace the phase inverter tube, V8 with one of the lower gain tubes mentioned above. (This is the last pre-amp tube in line - located right next to the power tubes). You could even try both options above, thus lowering the pre-gain of the circuit and emphasizing the power tube section. The advantage of these adjustments in your amp is that no re-biasing is required (assuming you do not bias your own amp and require a tech to do this). The other thing to consider is power tubes which would, in your amp, require a re bias. Thanks, I'll do some more research on the interwebz, but I will probably try that out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 A clean boost will do nothing to raise the clean headroom. Yeah, I stand corrected.....Clean headroom is different than volume........And Surf is correct (as always).............I've never done what he suggests, but have studied that option.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Regarding power tubes... What 6L6s are you currently using? How long have they been in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Regarding power tubes... What 6L6s are you currently using? How long have they been in there? Groove Tubes. I was going to replace those later. When I brought my amp into the tech, he said they seemed fine and didn't need to be replaced. For him to not to try and sell me new tubes, I thought they were all right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 So 12AU7s have a gain factor of about 20, meaning that they will offer up considerably less gain than a 12AX7 right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 So 12AU7s have a gain factor of about 20, meaning that they will offer up considerably less gain than a 12AX7 right? Yep. But that's a pretty drastic change. I'd start closer to the value your amp is intended to run. The 5751 or 12AT7 is going to make a noticeable difference. Shame you don't know anyone in ChiTown with a decent stock of tubes. I could swap those in for ya in a jiffy if you were in the Sunshine State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Get a little 85 watt Fender "Twin" Reverb. It'll have plenty. You need an amp with a dedicated "clean" or normal channel WITHOUT a pre/post gain setup. The Carvin Legacy has an incredible clean channel, too. My Boogie only has a single "Normal" channel (you get it to break up by CRANKING IT), and my Prosonic also has a normal channel. Step away from the Fuzzy sounding amps. No offense to your screen name............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondJig Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I never seen or played your amp, but I've used old SUNN's, I found a user manual http://www.sunnamps.com/pdfs/manuals/guitar/Sunn_T50C.pdf very interesting amp. I see that the effects loop will control the volume level with or without it being connect to anything, that may be set to low, also the rear has a full/half power switch, use the full power setting. The other thing I would do is check the bias/balance, seems very easy to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Headroom, can be tweaked with OT bias... and: (Couldn't help it, sorry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Get a little 85 watt Fender "Twin" Reverb. It'll have plenty. You need an amp with a dedicated "clean" or normal channel WITHOUT a pre/post gain setup. The Carvin Legacy has an incredible clean channel, too. My Boogie only has a single "Normal" channel (you get it to break up by CRANKING IT), and my Prosonic also has a normal channel. Step away from the Fuzzy sounding amps. No offense to your screen name............ Nothing little about those Fender Twin amps I have serious GAS for one of those, but no money to cover it, and Blue Cross is denying my copay I do love my amp, I just want some more headroom. The breakup on the tubes is wonderful, but doesn't change much between say around 6-10 on the volume knob, and if I changed to a lower gain tube, that should help no? Don't diss the fuzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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