Hello all.

[Grawbad]

Hello everyone. My first post here. ;)

 

Back in 09 I decided to learn to play the Guitar. I ended up picking up an Epiphone Les Paul Standard. (Blue)

It was a beautiful guitar, though I found it frustrating that I had to tune it all the time.

Anyways, I started some lessons locally and for about a month I was learning to play.

Work/life/money got in the way and I ended up selling the guitar, but the experience told me that it was something I could do and that I did enjoy as much as I thought I would prior to trying to do it.

 

So now I am back in the market and this time I am not going the cheap route. I want a "Gibson" Les Paul. Nothing else will do.

I have been saving for a while and I am starting to get close to finally owning a guitar again.

 

There are so many options staring me in the face its not funny.

What I do know is that I want at the minimum a Traditional or Standard and up from there. I don't need a custom just yet, all I want is a solid instrument with full binding.

My favorite colors are:

Honey Burst

Wine Red (Gold Hardware)

 

I don't dislike all the other colors but I do not have a particular like for anything with a non see through color that doesn't show the wood, including bursts that turn full black at the edge.

 

So anyways, I have some questions.

 

1: I thought the traditional was supposed to be "NON" weight relieved? The site says it "IS" weight relieved.

 

2: I would never buy a cheap guitar online. I would want to at the very least look down the neck to see if its straight. I am hoping this really wont be an issue when buying a Gibson online as I won't be able to purchase at a store. So how is Gibson's performance here? Should I be worried about this at all?

 

3: How often do they come out with differing colors for any certain model? I have seen Les Paul Supremes in some great colors and ran across this:

http://www.gibson.com/Files/USA_PDFs/LPSupreme.pdf

The picture doesn't do it justice but I really like the Root Beer.

However, there are only two colors available today.

 

4: Does the neck on the Standard feel right or is it awkward? Just trying to envision how it would feel in my hand makes me think it would feel great but I have no experience with it at all.

 

5: Of the Standard, Traditional and Supreme, what would you guys consider to be the best "all around" guitar.

 

6: Can anybody suggest an entry level tube amp that will go well with a Les Paul? I realize its up to me on what kind of sound I like, but really I am all over the map, from classic to hard rock and everything in between. Not really into metal though. I just want a quality tube amp thats more entry level. I was looking at the Marshall Haze here:

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-MAR-MHZ40C-LIST

What do you guys think?

 

7: Of the Gibson Fat Boy and the Gibson Switchblade guitar straps, what are the differences? Is it just look or usability as well?

 

8: I need a guitar stand, but I read that the stuff that they usually put on them is bad for a nitro finish and it seems no manufacturer wants to say whether or not it safe for a nitro finish. Can anybody tell me if there is a stand out there that is safe?

 

 

 

As you can see I am torn between three guitars. The neck intrigues me on the Standard but the traditional was something I wanted due to not being chambered, but now it seems like it may actually be chambered. The supreme is just an amazing looking guitar and I read that the pick ups in the Supreme sound amazing.

 

 

I go to work soon so I may not reply to anybody tonight but I thank you in advance for anything you can say on what I have asked here.

I look forward to your replies. I also may have forgot something and will remember while I am at work and I will update accordingly tomorrow.

 

Thanks again guys.

[retrosurfer1959]

Weight relieved and chambered are different - weight relieved means it has holes drilled in it for weight relief (probably why they named it that) the chambered is hollowed out as both a weight relief as well as tone adjustment. If you don't want weight relieved your looking custom shop or used only. There's xray photos floating around if I can't find them somebody else will soon.

 

Now I gotta go back and read all your questions again.

[dbreslauer]

do you have a budget in mind?

 

suffice to say, there's quite a spread available that is limited only by how much you want to spend.

 

If you like honeyburst, look at the 60s Tribute Les Paul Studio. i know you said you wanted a standard or traditional, but there's almost a $1500 difference between these.

 

 

it would sound killer through a $400 Marshall Class 5 too.

 

 

so for just around $1200, you'd be all set :)

[Andy R]

If you look at my post on rebuilding the Les Paul studio you can actually see the swiss cheese weight relief holes after I removed the top. I can say that the weight relief holes really doesn't take that much weight at all out of the guitar. I didn't notice much difference at all after I filled them back in. Mahogany is strange and varies greatly from piece to piece for weight. The Mahogany on the studio I have was light to begin with. Where I got the real weight back was from the maple Top. Now it feels like a Paul should! Heavy!!!!!

[dbreslauer]

If you look at my post on rebuilding the Les Paul studio you can actually see the swiss cheese weight relief holes after I removed the top. I can say that the weight relief holes really doesn't take that much weight at all out of the guitar. I didn't notice much difference at all after I filled them back in. Mahogany is strange and varies greatly from piece to piece for weight. The Mahogany on the studio I have was light to begin with. Where I got the real weight back was from the maple Top. Now it feels like a Paul should! Heavy!!!!!

 

sorry for the hijack!

 

I actually meant to ask you that exact question Andy: how much weight was really saved with the drilled holes in the mahogany?

 

re: chambering, it's funny: tapping around on the top of my '08 LP Standard, you can tell exactly where the chambers are (pretty much everywhere!) it should almost be considered a semi hollowbody. you can see how it would have a more dramatic effect on total weight.

 

thanks!

Don

[neilpanda]

Weight relieved and chambered are different - weight relieved means it has holes drilled in it for weight relief (probably why they named it that) the chambered is hollowed out as both a weight relief as well as tone adjustment. If you don't want weight relieved your looking custom shop or used only.

yes indeed. weight relieving is drilling "swiss cheese"holes inside the body, look at andy's pinned thread for it.

chambering is similar to weight relieving, but its for sound and feel.

 

amps? I really like those bugera tube amps, but Id go with the marshall class 5 (white ones are purdy )

[NeoConMan]

Welcome aboard.

 

You're asking good questions, keep it up.

Traditional or Standard ... a solid instrument with full binding?

Go Traditional.

 

In my opinion, the Standard is a joke.

Odd neck, and all kinds of crap that aren't really "standard" fare.

 

If you don't want weight-relieved, you pretty much have to go Custom or reissue.

Don't lose any sleep over it - it's hard to tell if you don't know the difference.

 

Gibson's performance is still spotty on occasion - a turd gets through now and then.

I blame the retailers for accepting them.

Mail order house ships you a sh!t guitar?

Return it.

Then they will ship it to somebody else.

They return it too?

They'll ship it to the next guy - instead of sending it back to Gibson.

 

Fxckers....

 

Different colors for different models are a on/off thing, just keep watching.

 

Look at the Fender Hot Rod DeVille amps - can't beat 'em for the price.

Buy your straps from a retailer, or have them custom made at a leather shop like I did.

 

Cover any guitar stand you buy with white cotton.

ALL foam rubber will react with a nitro finish.

NO manufacturer will stand behind it and do anything about your finish damage.

Don't believe a damned thing they tell you...

[retrosurfer1959]

Here's a weight relief example from a Supreme compare that to the picture in Andy's post

 

[retrosurfer1959]

I've got quite a few guitars and two of my favorites are a Traditional Pro and a Honey-burst faded Standard from a few years ago. You have some good questions that prove you are thinking about it and trying to make a educated decision the problem is that guitars are so personal any advice you get is probably mostly opinion. After saying that I'll give you my opinion

 

Go for a Traditional, there a great guitar probably the closest thing out there to a old style Standard without getting into the reissue's (although there's some really good buys out there for the R8's" the Traditional is solid, good looking and meets pretty much all your criteria and there a good bang for the buck in the Gibson world.

 

The online sellers are like anything some are good many are not, I personally have had great luck with Sweetwaters and there return policy is a real relief if needed.

 

 

 

I'd be leery about buying a Studio as my dream guitar if I was you unless you know it's gonna make you happy. A lot of people will recommend them saying there the same guitar without the cosmetics but I don't agree a Studio is a great beginner guitar and even though there's nothing at all wrong with them "in fact I still have a few that I really like" but if you've spent much of your life waiting and saving for a real Gibson LP , than get a real one. A lot of people that buy Studio's do so to try and save money and most are unhappy and end up selling them for a loss to get a Standard.

[NeoConMan]

Yep.

Nobody ever bought a Standard and then said "Damn! Wish I had bought a Studio!!!"

[krock]

Hang on, you've been playing for less than a year and you alreasy want the best guitar money can buy? wow

[pippy]

Hi and welcome.

 

As Neo said; you are asking good question and asking them before you buy; which is a good thing!

 

Retro posted a great snap of a chambered body before it was turned into a guitar - a Supreme in that instance.

 

Just to put the two side by side here are the X-ray pictures that were mentioned. The lower one is a Standard.

 

 

 

The weight-relieving process makes no real noticeable difference to the guitar.

 

To illustrate this point it was about eight years after the practice had been introduced before anyone knew it was happening - and they only discovered by accident.

 

Chambering does make a small, but discernible, difference in tone. Most players find their instruments sound a bit brighter.

 

The main difference between the Trad and Standard, as far as I'm concerned, is the weight.

Trads are normally in 'Old Standard' territory - typically around 9 lb. Standards are normally 1 to 1 1/2 lbs lighter.

Some folk find the lighter instruments can feel a bit neck-heavy.

 

As for the rest of your questions;

 

2 and 3 have already been covered.

 

4. Necks are a very personal matter, I'm afraid. Some people like thick, some thin, some in-between. If possible you'll have to try some. If this is not possible (you mention that you have to buy mail-order) then become accustomed to whatever you end up with!

 

5. My feeling is most of the people here would advise the Traditional. I would too. For me it's the balance which settles it. Others will, obviously, have their own views.

 

6. The amps previously mentioned are all good. I believe the Marshall Class 5, although a good amp, doesn't have a gain control so overdrive comes only with volume. I could be wrong here, though!.

 

7. As far as straps go I'd advise 2" wide soft leather. Make is not really an issue.

 

Stands have been dealt with.

 

As far as the Supreme goes; it's a very different beast. Fine instruments, no doubt, but not a Trad.

 

The only other thing I'd mention is the importance of strap-locks. These replace the strap buttons on your guitar and ensure the strap doesn't accidentally slip off, with the resultant broken headstock. Schallers are very good and not too clumsy-looking. They will be the best $10 you will have spent, believe me. You only need to read the for sale ads to see how many older instruments contain the words "..excellen headstock repair.."...

 

Good luck hunting and when you get your instrument please come back to post snaps!

 

P.

[Grawbad]

Weight relieved and chambered are different - weight relieved means it has holes drilled in it for weight relief (probably why they named it that) the chambered is hollowed out as both a weight relief as well as tone adjustment. If you don't want weight relieved your looking custom shop or used only. There's xray photos floating around if I can't find them somebody else will soon.

 

Now I gotta go back and read all your questions again.

Thanks, yep they got posted. ;)

 

do you have a budget in mind?

 

suffice to say, there's quite a spread available that is limited only by how much you want to spend.

 

If you like honeyburst, look at the 60s Tribute Les Paul Studio. i know you said you wanted a standard or traditional, but there's almost a $1500 difference between these.

 

 

it would sound killer through a $400 Marshall Class 5 too.

 

 

so for just around $1200, you'd be all set :)

I have been saving for a while and will soon have the money for a Standard or Traditional so I don't feel I need to compromise what I get just for the price.

However, I am not against saving money. I just really have not had a chance to get my hands on a Studio. Do the frets bother you when you play? The 60's model has the only real color option that I like, but I would be worried about the pick ups.

I just really like the look of binding, to me without it the guitar seems unfinished, plus as I mentioned I am worried about how the neck feels without it.

 

BTW, that is probably one of the better pictures I have seen of the Honey Burst finish. Online pics usually make them seem much lighter than they are in person, thus making them not look as good to me.

 

 

 

If you look at my post on rebuilding the Les Paul studio you can actually see the swiss cheese weight relief holes after I removed the top. I can say that the weight relief holes really doesn't take that much weight at all out of the guitar. I didn't notice much difference at all after I filled them back in. Mahogany is strange and varies greatly from piece to piece for weight. The Mahogany on the studio I have was light to begin with. Where I got the real weight back was from the maple Top. Now it feels like a Paul should! Heavy!!!!!

Thanks. That is a crazy thread. I can't believe all the work your putting in. I haven't read but skimmed it so far, looking at the pics. Have you ever just built your own guitar from scratch? There are so many things I can think of to try with skills like that. Like, for the hell of it, making an entire guitar out of a single slab of wood, neck and all. Probably not a good idea since I don't think any guitar maker makes one like that but would be interesting to see what happens. The neck would probably snap. haha.

 

 

yes indeed. weight relieving is drilling "swiss cheese"holes inside the body, look at andy's pinned thread for it.

chambering is similar to weight relieving, but its for sound and feel.

 

amps? I really like those bugera tube amps, but Id go with the marshall class 5 (white ones are purdy )

Thanks. Going to do a lot more research on amps now. Just knowing I want a tube amp is not good enough. Time to learn.

 

Welcome aboard.

 

You're asking good questions, keep it up.

Traditional or Standard ... a solid instrument with full binding?

Go Traditional.

 

In my opinion, the Standard is a joke.

Odd neck, and all kinds of crap that aren't really "standard" fare.

 

If you don't want weight-relieved, you pretty much have to go Custom or reissue.

Don't lose any sleep over it - it's hard to tell if you don't know the difference.

 

Gibson's performance is still spotty on occasion - a turd gets through now and then.

I blame the retailers for accepting them.

Mail order house ships you a sh!t guitar?

Return it.

Then they will ship it to somebody else.

They return it too?

They'll ship it to the next guy - instead of sending it back to Gibson.

 

Fxckers....

 

Different colors for different models are a on/off thing, just keep watching.

 

Look at the Fender Hot Rod DeVille amps - can't beat 'em for the price.

Buy your straps from a retailer, or have them custom made at a leather shop like I did.

 

Cover any guitar stand you buy with white cotton.

ALL foam rubber will react with a nitro finish.

NO manufacturer will stand behind it and do anything about your finish damage.

Don't believe a damned thing they tell you...

Thanks, I will make sure to buy from somewhere that has a good return policy.

White cotton, got yah. Seems like a simple solution. ;)

About the color, I think I got about 2 months to go to get everything I need to start playing again, so I will see whats available at the time.

 

 

Here's a weight relief example from a Supreme compare that to the picture in Andy's post

 

Wow, its like its been gutted.

 

 

I've got quite a few guitars and two of my favorites are a Traditional Pro and a Honey-burst faded Standard from a few years ago. You have some good questions that prove you are thinking about it and trying to make a educated decision the problem is that guitars are so personal any advice you get is probably mostly opinion. After saying that I'll give you my opinion

 

Go for a Traditional, there a great guitar probably the closest thing out there to a old style Standard without getting into the reissue's (although there's some really good buys out there for the R8's" the Traditional is solid, good looking and meets pretty much all your criteria and there a good bang for the buck in the Gibson world.

 

The online sellers are like anything some are good many are not, I personally have had great luck with Sweetwaters and there return policy is a real relief if needed.

 

 

 

I'd be leery about buying a Studio as my dream guitar if I was you unless you know it's gonna make you happy. A lot of people will recommend them saying there the same guitar without the cosmetics but I don't agree a Studio is a great beginner guitar and even though there's nothing at all wrong with them "in fact I still have a few that I really like" but if you've spent much of your life waiting and saving for a real Gibson LP , than get a real one. A lot of people that buy Studio's do so to try and save money and most are unhappy and end up selling them for a loss to get a Standard.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Yeah, like I said above, I have no experience with Studio's and I am worried about a few things.

 

Yep.

Nobody ever bought a Standard and then said "Damn! Wish I had bought a Studio!!!"

Now thats funny.

 

 

Hang on, you've been playing for less than a year and you alreasy want the best guitar money can buy? wow

Thats a most definite YES. If I want quality, whats that have to do with time spent playing?

 

Hi and welcome.

 

As Neo said; you are asking good question and asking them before you buy; which is a good thing!

 

Retro posted a great snap of a chambered body before it was turned into a guitar - a Supreme in that instance.

 

Just to put the two side by side here are the X-ray pictures that were mentioned. The lower one is a Standard.

 

 

 

The weight-relieving process makes no real noticeable difference to the guitar.

 

To illustrate this point it was about eight years after the practice had been introduced before anyone knew it was happening - and they only discovered by accident.

 

Chambering does make a small, but discernible, difference in tone. Most players find their instruments sound a bit brighter.

 

The main difference between the Trad and Standard, as far as I'm concerned, is the weight.

Trads are normally in 'Old Standard' territory - typically around 9 lb. Standards are normally 1 to 1 1/2 lbs lighter.

Some folk find the lighter instruments can feel a bit neck-heavy.

 

As for the rest of your questions;

 

2 and 3 have already been covered.

 

4. Necks are a very personal matter, I'm afraid. Some people like thick, some thin, some in-between. If possible you'll have to try some. If this is not possible (you mention that you have to buy mail-order) then become accustomed to whatever you end up with!

 

5. My feeling is most of the people here would advise the Traditional. I would too. For me it's the balance which settles it. Others will, obviously, have their own views.

 

6. The amps previously mentioned are all good. I believe the Marshall Class 5, although a good amp, doesn't have a gain control so overdrive comes only with volume. I could be wrong here, though!.

 

7. As far as straps go I'd advise 2" wide soft leather. Make is not really an issue.

 

Stands have been dealt with.

 

As far as the Supreme goes; it's a very different beast. Fine instruments, no doubt, but not a Trad.

 

The only other thing I'd mention is the importance of strap-locks. These replace the strap buttons on your guitar and ensure the strap doesn't accidentally slip off, with the resultant broken headstock. Schallers are very good and not too clumsy-looking. They will be the best $10 you will have spent, believe me. You only need to read the for sale ads to see how many older instruments contain the words "..excellen headstock repair.."...

 

Good luck hunting and when you get your instrument please come back to post snaps!

 

P.

Thanks.

The funny thing about the pics you guys are posting is that if you asked me which guitar looks like it would weigh less I would have told you the weight relieved looks lighter and the chambered looks like it would be heavier. Its odd that you can route out almost an entire body and yet not make it weigh less than a guitar that just has 9 holes in it.

 

 

 

OK, it seems most people think the Traditional is the way to go. Now I was leaning towards the traditional a little but the options on the other guitars gives me pause and makes me wonder. I haven't decided yet.

 

About the straps:

I was looking at these two:

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-GIB-ASPBX-LIST

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-GIB-ASSWX-LIST

They are both leather and have memory foam in them. Seems like either will fit the ticket, I just don't get a sense of any practical difference between them.

 

 

Thanks everyone for all your replies. In the end I am still torn on the guitar. I got a couple of months though so I will just continue looking around and hanging out here and seeing where that leads me when the money is finally in order.

[NeoConMan]

The only other thing I'd mention is the importance of strap-locks.

These replace the strap buttons on your guitar and ensure the strap doesn't accidentally slip off, with the resultant broken headstock. Schallers are very good and not too clumsy-looking. They will be the best $10 you will have spent, believe me. You only need to read the for sale ads to see how many older instruments contain the words "..excellen headstock repair.."...

Damned straight!

 

Schallers on everything I've owned in the last 20 years.

 

 

One clarification I feel is in order about the Les Paul Standard;

My earlier disdain and contempt for the Standard is in reference to the "new" 2008 Standard.

The "new" 2008 Standard got the funky neck profile and other goofiness I alluded to.

Early 2008 and before, the Les Paul Standard was the standard by which all others are judged.

 

It's the real deal, and you can still find new ones hanging in stores.

Independent dealers can't shuttle them from store to store like GUITAR CENTER does.

As a consequence, those dealers OWN those guitars until they can find a buyer.

[Andy R]

Thanks, yep they got posted. ;)

 

 

I have been saving for a while and will soon have the money for a Standard or Traditional so I don't feel I need to compromise what I get just for the price.

However, I am not against saving money. I just really have not had a chance to get my hands on a Studio. Do the frets bother you when you play? The 60's model has the only real color option that I like, but I would be worried about the pick ups.

I just really like the look of binding, to me without it the guitar seems unfinished, plus as I mentioned I am worried about how the neck feels without it.

 

BTW, that is probably one of the better pictures I have seen of the Honey Burst finish. Online pics usually make them seem much lighter than they are in person, thus making them not look as good to me.

 

 

 

 

Thanks. That is a crazy thread. I can't believe all the work your putting in. I haven't read but skimmed it so far, looking at the pics. Have you ever just built your own guitar from scratch? There are so many things I can think of to try with skills like that. Like, for the hell of it, making an entire guitar out of a single slab of wood, neck and all. Probably not a good idea since I don't think any guitar maker makes one like that but would be interesting to see what happens. The neck would probably snap. haha.

 

 

 

Thanks. Going to do a lot more research on amps now. Just knowing I want a tube amp is not good enough. Time to learn.

 

 

Thanks, I will make sure to buy from somewhere that has a good return policy.

White cotton, got yah. Seems like a simple solution. ;)

About the color, I think I got about 2 months to go to get everything I need to start playing again, so I will see whats available at the time.

 

 

 

Wow, its like its been gutted.

 

 

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

Yeah, like I said above, I have no experience with Studio's and I am worried about a few things.

 

 

Now thats funny.

 

 

 

Thats a most definite YES. If I want quality, whats that have to do with time spent playing?

 

 

Thanks.

The funny thing about the pics you guys are posting is that if you asked me which guitar looks like it would weigh less I would have told you the weight relieved looks lighter and the chambered looks like it would be heavier. Its odd that you can route out almost an entire body and yet not make it weigh less than a guitar that just has 9 holes in it.

 

 

 

OK, it seems most people think the Traditional is the way to go. Now I was leaning towards the traditional a little but the options on the other guitars gives me pause and makes me wonder. I haven't decided yet.

 

About the straps:

I was looking at these two:

http://www.americanm...-GIB-ASPBX-LIST

http://www.americanm...-GIB-ASSWX-LIST

They are both leather and have memory foam in them. Seems like either will fit the ticket, I just don't get a sense of any practical difference between them.

 

 

Thanks everyone for all your replies. In the end I am still torn on the guitar. I got a couple of months though so I will just continue looking around and hanging out here and seeing where that leads me when the money is finally in order.

 

 

I believe the Chambered bodies do weigh less than the "Weight relieved" bodies. A lot of the weight of the guitar is determined by the particular piece of mahogany they use. You could pick up two pieces of mahogany that are identical in dimensions and have up to a pound or two difference. It just depends on how dense the particular piece is. It really is amazing. Wood is one of the biggest attributes of a guitar that make each and everyone unique. Combined with how and who built it, how it was finished, components used and age no two guitars are identical in feel or sound. This is very noticeable on acoustics. Go to a shop somewhere that has 3 or 4 identical Martins and each one will sound quite different. That's why it is usually recommended to get your hands and ears on the guitar you plan to buy and check out as many as you can.

It kills me when people go to a store and find a guitar they really like and then ask for a "new one" in a box. That's not going to be the same guitar you played. Just like Identical twins are still two individual people. They may both look pretty and you can't tell them apart but one may be a complete bi*ch and the other is sweet as pie.

I agree with retro on the Studio Vs. Standard to some degree. I wouldn't call them a beginners guitar but they are not just a stripped down Standard either. They are built well and made with good components. Really the main difference is they don't use maple tops, they are usually Aspen ( I believe) and the top is about an 8th of an inch thinner than a normal Standard. The rest is just cosmetic with binding and painted on Gibson headstock. The neck is a little different too. The white ones even have ebony fingerboards.

Resell value the Standard will be higher than a Studio. If you had the same guitar player, playing each through the same setup I'm not sure I would be able to hear that dramatic difference. I go back to my no two guitars are the same point as well. I think you could come across an average sounding and playing Standard and an awesome sounding and playing Studio. If this were the only two to choose from I wouldn't buy the Standard just for the sake of having a standard but a lot of people would.

I'm a Trans Am Guy. To me the Studio is like a Firebird and the Standard is like a Trans Am, and a Custom is Like a GTA

Andy