milod Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Jax... My one exception to what you wrote is "join the musicians union." I did as a young guy and frankly after being treated as though I were a leprous three year old at an annual meeting/banquet, I had nothing to do with 'em again, although I think I paid another year's dues. Oddly at the time we "kids" were getting a lot more gigs that paid better than the old guys, which may have had something to do with it, but... What made it worse, is that if these guys had schmoozed me just a little, they had an opportunity for some good publicity 'cuz I was already also reporting at the daily newspaper. I never wrote anything about them. Period. Although they never asked, either. Dumb. Interestingly, and I think as a result, there ain't a musicians union in the whole state although when I was that kid, the union was quite active and, in a sense, very much worth joining. I tried several times to get some sort of response several times from what appear to be the nearest locals over the past five years or so and not even an email reply. I'm not that hard to google, and I'm for real. But guess who at this point is not into the union unless one must needs do so in a more urban environment and some other type of music. I think at least one other "regular" on here had even worse experience. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that somewhere there's a local worth joining if one plays the right sort of music in the right sort of venues. But not around here. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpanda Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 We have ONE rule in my band. DO NOT let the drummer near the songbook. last time he wrote a song, he had 23 swear words in the first verse. then he went all doo-dah about politics in the second. and the rhyme scheme was rather ridiculous. but other than that the band is pretty equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 One of the first rules of music has always been don't let the drummer near the songbook, or anything valuable, or anything breakable or anything important etc. etc. With rare exceptions drummers are a scary group especially in young bands the drummer is usually some almost homeless guy that eats all the food and crashes at everybody's house. They often own vans though to carry all the crap around which can be useful. All joking aside that was the first rule my young wife made many years ago when we first married, no drummers living on the couch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopssorryy Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 You've got to split the responsibilities man! You can't do both the song writing and management forever, who's the most responsible person in the band (other than you)? They should take over the management responsibilities and give you some breathing room. The two leaders should have most of the say, but the other members do get a say, as they are playing the music, and probably writing their own instrumental parts to your pieces (as long as it goes with the feel your looking for, again your the song writer). As for a band name.... that takes a while, because there's always someone that doesn't like the name. If it's just your bassist complaining tell him to come up with a name everyone likes, get over it, or get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 That's the thing. I'm the one writing the songs. I'm the one writing the lyrics I'm the one keeping track of everything I'm the one going out there and talking to people about getting shows. And it's pissing me the **** off Then you are the leader. it has nothing to do with being the "boss". You happen to be doing all the work. See, it is like this: If you write the songs, they are your songs. How do you tell someone how their song goes? If you get the gigs, then it is up to you to fill them. If someone quits, YOU have to still do the gig. You may still have to get the ok from everyone else, but isn't that being a leader? If you choose to tell everyone to kiss your *** and fall in line, they may quit, then it is still your problem same as it was. So, you the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Jax... My one exception to what you wrote is "join the musicians I think at least one other "regular" on here had even worse Milo you are not the first American friend I have heard say that! In the u.k my colleagues and my own expedience of them had always been very good. They are completely behind you (and get results) if places don't pay you and always return calls etc. Also on request they will send you ant amount of contracts you need for teaching/gigs etc. My membership also covers me for public liability insurance fir 10 million £...so a lot! Lol Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 If it's your music and if you set it up then your the leader if he doesn't like it tell him to walk. If you joined them and don't agree with the direction, then you need to walk. I won't be in a band unless I'm the leader or co-leader at least it's not that I'm overly arrogant (really I promise) I just know myself, I don't take orders well especially on my art or in my music. Ive kicked people out and Ive walked away the one thing, Ive never done is leave a band in a lurch though if you have a gig or series of gigs finish them or let them replace you if you want to walk before they lose gigs. I'm never a jerk but I play music in a band for enjoyment and extra money. The reverse is true if I'm playing as a studio musician or doing fill in for somebody else. If I playing somebody else's music I play it there way if have an idea I'll tell them if they take it great if they don't fine. Ive played music in studio that I don't even like and that's no problem for me I still do my best get my paycheck and I'm gone. Also never take crap from bass players or drummers there critical but unless there writing also there rhythm and lots of people can play rhythm. a good bass player can make or break a group but there's a lot of good bass player out there. Buy yourself a good baritone guitar you can drop tune if you don't play bass that way you can fake it if you ever lose a bass player for a gig. I know performing is fun and rewarding but learn to play all the key instruments then you can record your own music and supplement your band as needed the best thing I ever did was learn to play, bass, drums, piano as well as guitar and mandolin. I can always get a gig if I want one or I can work in the studio all by myself and honestly they both can equally rewarding. The other guitar player has talked about playing bass, so I'm not sure. The bassist is just making this huge deal about the band name. I don't care what it is, I just want to play shows, but I don't want some br00tal *** sounding name because then this guy will put us with the hardcore bands and Wilco doesn't fit in with hardcore bands I get along with the drummer great. He did try writing a song, and we scrapped it. Never letting that happen again. Right now, I'm going to coffee shops and stuff like that finding out when I can do acoustic shows so I don't have to deal with the BS. I'm picking out 6 of my best original songs, and maybe a few covers to put on an album and I'm going to release that the 24th, mainly as a demo to try and talk to some people about playing and recording. I can make my way around a bass, I just can't sing very well whilst playing bass, and no one else can sing. I've been working on piano a little and drums are a work in progress I get along with the drummer amazing, me and the other guitarist argue, but most of our playing works out pretty well, but the bassist has been pissing everyone off lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Any endeavor requires direction and someone to ensure the direction is maintained and goals are achieved. Therefore, someone in a leadership role is a must if success is to be obtained. Yup................. [thumbup] ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 That's the thing. I'm the one writing the songs. I'm the one writing the lyrics I'm the one keeping track of everything I'm the one going out there and talking to people about getting shows. And it's pissing me the **** off Aw man, my old band went through 7 bassists in 7 years. 3 Drummers too. Me and the lead guitarist/singer were co-leaders as we wrote 99% of the songs. It worked for us...we finally got a killer lineup and had it steady for 2.5 years...then i moved away and we broke up. *sniff* Sounds like 'Shred' has the idea. Your band is just going through some growing pains. As the leader and brains of the outfit, get input, tell everyone how it's going to be and that's it. If the bassist, drummer or whomever gets their nose out of joint, bounce 'em. As leader, I suspect you will perpetually need to keep your eyes and ears open for potential alternative members. -- That's just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Fred, I was watchin' "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?" last night and thought of you during this verbal exchange when the direction of the group was questioned: Pete: Wait a minute. Who elected you leader of this outfit? Ulysses Everett McGill: Well Pete, I figured it should be the one with the capacity for abstract thought. But if that ain't the consensus view, then hell, let's put it to a vote. Pete: Suits me. I'm voting for yours truly. Ulysses Everett McGill: Well I'm voting for yours truly too. [Everett and Pete look at Delmar for the deciding vote] Delmar O'Donnell: Okay... I'm with you fellas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Serious. Joking aside. You can always change your band name. It isn't like you are going to get so much attention from 1 show where it will matter. You might be making too much of this yourself. A good leader takes the efforts and the work of everyone else and puts it to good use. When it comes to something like a name, let the bassist come up with whatever he wants, put it to a vote. Then he has nothing to complain about and no one to blame. At this point, you are lucky to have a band. You got poeple helping you get your music across. As has been stated, you are the one making it happen for the most part. It is your music and you are the one handling the gigs. When a member offers help in the way of songs or gigs or band names, take it. If someone has creative input, use it. If not, just let them play and thank them for the help and give them credit where due. If you have guys that are playing your music and a band going, it is silly to let little things stop the machine. You have to have a perspective for your own sanity as well. I don't mean to sound harsh, but if you can't get through a little setback such as this without letting it upset you, I think you need to accept the reality that a band is not in the cards for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Milod I am not supporting the union, but if you want to play in Vegas, LA, Chicago, NYC or any large market and you are working with a manager you better join the union... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Jax... Yupper... No question at all, let alone an argument about that except... Here's what bugs me big time... Consider that over the past five years or so I've tried; got no response from AFM national or either of the two nearest - still far - locals. If that isn't something to reeeeally make one wonder, I don't know what is. Especially with somebody whose name probably is on an index card somewhere from some 45 years ago. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Milod, back in the early 70's I was in a C & W band playing casinos across Nevada, in some small cow towns and some big ones....had to pay them dues...never saw any big bennys other than being guaranteed minimum of $150.00 for each band member per night, (5-45 minute sets per night and one night off per week)..and we paid the union dues and the booking fees... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I somehow get the feeling that the musicians union in the US simply doesn't feel it is working for the musician who's out working. Perhaps if there's a local representing a symphony orchestra or something, it might do a lot better. Otherwise about the only benefit I can see is in a AFM town, if a venue doesn't pay the band or pay scale or above as contracted, the union might go after 'em at least in the sense of letting other musicians know that venue isn't necessarily where one might wish to work. Maybe my idea of a proper musicians union is more like an idealized "cooperative," but I haven't gotten much of a feel that the current folks care much for the average musician. Then there are questions of what the union is doing for instead of against the working musician that just don't seem to be answered in any form I've seen. I dunno. It seems to me to be a great idea that is suffering from a huge case of entropy. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Just think if they had a strike, and scabs tried to cross the line... <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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