Eyecon Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Hello everyone, Hoping someone has some good knowledge of vintage J45's. There is a guy on craigslist that has an older (circa 1955) J45 he wants to sell. Says has been in the family since new. Tuners have been changed. Attached is a shot of the tuners Does this look legit? Any help would be grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 The adj, Bridge would date that from mid 1956 on.. Most 1956 models didnt have a adj saddle .. 1955 didnt have a adj saddle.. the number on the back of the peg head looks like a SIN for the U.S. Still looks really Nice... How much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyhey Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Could that be the previous owner's driver's license number? Back in the 70's it was really popular to use an electric pencil and scribe your DL number on everything you own as an anti-theft deterrent. My dad did it on everything, even to some valuable (at least prior to the engraving) firearms he had. Cheers, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 The guitar is the real thing. Someone else have to tell you about the odd number. Read here at some point that the J-45 bracing changed from scalloped to non-scalloped during the 50ties. Exactly when did that happen ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyecon Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Good morning all. Thanks for the help. So it does look like this J45 is a latter 50's era. I found a few on ebay and from what I can tell Gibson didn't put Serial Numbers on the back of the headstock like they do today. The price is very fair $1800. Seller states no cracks, straight neck. Nothing beyond normal aging for a 50+ year old guitar. Thanks a bunch, Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 There ought to be a letter and a number on the neck block inside the box. It should determine the exact year. Ask the seller and look up the code somewhere on the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 first order of business:replace those tuners! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyecon Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 I will ask the seller to give me the number and look it up. Thank you. I really do appreciate the help. Yes, Tuners will be swapped immediately! Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanfender Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 In order to be a 1955 model the FON in the neck block must start with a 'W". In the 50s, Gibson FONs of this type start in 1952 and go backwards like this: Factory Order Numbers with a Letter, 1952 to 1961. This letter preceeds the batch number within the Factory Order Number (FON), and denotes the year of manufacturer. Remember, the batch number is the first 4 digits of the FON, followed by a 1 or 2 digit sequence number (within the batch). This letter should be before the FON batch number. This was used on archtop models (ink stamped inside treble F-hole) and on flat top models (ink stamped on the neck block), from 1952 to 1961: Year Letter ---- ------ 1952 Z 1953 Y 1954 X 1955 W 1956 V 1957 U 1958 T 1959 S 1960 R 1961 Q The numbers system changes radically after 1961 and it much difficult to understand and date. Good luck. Oh by the way, this guitar appears to have came for the factory with the 3 on-a-plate Kluson tuners. Exact replicas are available at Elderly Instruments for $40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyecon Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Great info Ryan. I just knew that there would be some great help here. I'll let you guys know what serial number/year this one is. Thanks for the Elderly Tuners info. Good find! Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Great info Ryan. I just knew that there would be some great help here. I'll let you guys know what serial number/year this one is. Thanks for the Elderly Tuners info. Good find! Scott As others have said, the number on the back of the headstock is not a Gibson serial number. The FON or serial number will be ink-stamped on the neck block, clearly visible inside the soundhole by looking towards the neck. Either "J 45" or "j 45 ADJ" should be ink-stamped on the back centerline cleat, immediately below the soundhole. The bridge appears to be an early original ceramic-saddle adjustable. Post the number from the back of the neck block, and plenty of people here will nail the date down for you. Price seems very reasonable if the condition is as represented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanfender Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Great info Ryan. I just knew that there would be some great help here. I'll let you guys know what serial number/year this one is. Thanks for the Elderly Tuners info. Good find! Scott No problem. Here is a link to the tuners. They will use the existing holes assuming they aren't stripped. They have the benefit of covering up the holes from the replacement tuners as well. http://www.elderly.com/accessories/items/WD90NPP.htm These are the same tuners that came on my 1957 LG-1. The imprint from the old tuners on the back of the headstock of this J45 is exactly like mine and are period correct for this model. I am sure this is what it came with originally. Just must sure you get the real Kluson. StewMac sells some that look the same but I don't think are as good of quality. Here are the original tuners my 1957 LG-1 for comparison: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 My Guess would be in the era of 1958 .. Regardless.. the price you have stated isnt to bad at all... Good Luck with your quest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyecon Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Hello again, Looks like the Serial # starts with a "V". and also stamped J45. Looks like I will be getting a nice Vintage guitar. Thanks gentleman for all the assistance. You're awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Nice... a 56.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 . Just caught up and wanted to say - I don't know if it's the lighting, but I really like the burst color on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 . Just caught up and wanted to say - I don't know if it's the lighting, but I really like the burst color on that one. The burst looks fairly typical of mid-late 50s, I'd say. Much larger "natural" area, and the dark part seems lighter than normal, which is almost opaque black. Nice looking. Should be a great guitar, despite the adjustable. I've never played a ceramic adjustable. Gibson put a rosewood adj saddle on mine in 1968, which I routed out and replaced with a bone insert in 1970. Now going back to the original '48-'50 belly-up bridge and non-adjustable saddle. Ross Teigen is also removing an extra top brace that appears to have been related to the strange '68 adjustable installation, and isn't part of the "normal" top brace pattern. I'll give a report on how the sound changes as a result of this when the guitar comes back. I won't have old sound samples, but I've got a pretty good memory for sound as a former concert/recording engineer, despite what it did to my hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 The burst looks fairly typical of mid-late 50s, I'd say. Much larger "natural" area, and the dark part seems lighter than normal, which is almost opaque black. Nice looking. Should be a great guitar, despite the adjustable. I've never played a ceramic adjustable. Gibson put a rosewood adj saddle on mine in 1968, which I routed out and replaced with a bone insert in 1970. Now going back to the original '48-'50 belly-up bridge and non-adjustable saddle. Ross Teigen is also removing an extra top brace that appears to have been related to the strange '68 adjustable installation, and isn't part of the "normal" top brace pattern. I'll give a report on how the sound changes as a result of this when the guitar comes back. I won't have old sound samples, but I've got a pretty good memory for sound as a former concert/recording engineer, despite what it did to my hearing. Glad to see you decided to use Ross Teigen. He's excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Glad to see you decided to use Ross Teigen. He's excellent. In addition to doing a LOT of picky work on my '48 J 45, Ross is doing a neck reset on my '68 ES 335-12. I delivered the guitars to him personally, and spent a great couple of hours going over my wish list with him. He had some very nice vintage guitars he was working on, which gives you a lot of confidence. One thing that I am not taking back to original on the J 45 is the 1940 F4 mandolin-style headstock logo and flowerpot abalone inlays I had done in 1970, as well as the ivory-ebony-ivory headstock binding (real ivory: old piano keys) done in 1969-70. And the blinged-out abalone fretboard inlays done at the same time. After all, those were the Woodstock/Greenwich Village years, and I remember them fondly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Dont let the adj Saddle scare you off on these... I just sold a 56 J45 with the same features.. it sounded outstanding... 60s J45s sound more muffled.. My 56 j50E is ladder braced, with a adj saddle ,, acousticly.. Its got everything a X braced 45 has got, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Dont let the adj Saddle scare you off on these... I just sold a 56 J45 with the same features.. it sounded outstanding... 60s J45s sound more muffled.. My 56 j50E is ladder braced, with a adj saddle ,, acousticly.. Its got everything a X braced 45 has got, Oooohhh, Slim... Not sure I would have gone THAT far! There's J-45s, and there's J-45s.... I certainly agree on the sound of some 60's J-45s, however. As with all models, there's good'uns, and bad'uns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Oooops... I should of made that a little clearer... I ment from the 50s era... I wont get into the earlier ones... Ive owned those too... They do sound alot better... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyecon Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Well as soon as I get the tuners changed out, I'll record some sound clips and post them of this OLD NEW BABY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 In addition to doing a LOT of picky work on my '48 J 45, Ross is doing a neck reset on my '68 ES 335-12. I delivered the guitars to him personally, and spent a great couple of hours going over my wish list with him. He had some very nice vintage guitars he was working on, which gives you a lot of confidence. One thing that I am not taking back to original on the J 45 is the 1940 F4 mandolin-style headstock logo and flowerpot abalone inlays I had done in 1970, as well as the ivory-ebony-ivory headstock binding (real ivory: old piano keys) done in 1969-70. And the blinged-out abalone fretboard inlays done at the same time. After all, those were the Woodstock/Greenwich Village years, and I remember them fondly. I'll bet those look great! Love to see some pics. I'm wrestling with acquiring an early 30s Martin 0-17 or 0-17H. The 0-17H is in great shape cosmetically but will need to be converted to spanish style play. The 0-17 is REALLY rough but I know Ross could set it straight. It would never be pretty but it should have a bit of life left in it. Which ever one I wind up with, I will take it down to him personally as well. Going to bring along my 12 fret Southern Jumbo for him to set up as well. He did an amazing job on my 0-16NY. Plays like butter. It's great that we have a great luthier within driving distance in FLA. maybe I'll run into you there! Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Beautiful guitar. Congrats. Anyone would be proud to own it. This will amuse a few and upset a lot of folks but... How can so many of you like this guitar and seem to be OK with the excess glue coming out of the kerfing??? If this guitar were sent from Montana looking like this they would be crucified by many that post here? I'm just wonderin'? I think it's great but then Kalamazoo can do no wrong? Sorry it had to be said..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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